My new 1958 les paull replica

renderit said:

And I will offer this as a peace offering to the original poster;

I have NEVER played a Bartlett that was not completely outstanding!

I am SHOCKED he is still doing the headstock that way.

He has NO NEED to do it.

He WAS well respected.

I would have bought one. (Came VERY close on 2 Retrospec's)

Not now.

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I liked and appreciated this post

I've thought a LOT about this stuff over the last few days

I have a different appreciation for the full on replicas

I think what has altered my thoughts a little is thinking about guys like TW and F-Hole who really live in the world of real vintage Gibsons and how these replicas can really F up- pardon the pun things-- muddy the waters

I think if I made my own guitars and slapped a gibson logo on the top perhaps that would be ok w me in a wink wink moment, destruct guitar upon my death

I feel less ok buying one now

and I am happy my Gil's have a smooth headstock and say Gilyaron on it.... yea it says les paul model but there is no mistaking--- its different enough but same enough for ME

Pellman73 said:

I liked and appreciated this post

I've thought a LOT about this stuff over the last few days

I have a different appreciation for the full on replicas

I think what has altered my thoughts a little is thinking about guys like TW and F-Hole who really live in the world of real vintage Gibsons and how these replicas can really F up- pardon the pun things-- muddy the waters

I think if I made my own guitars and slapped a gibson logo on the top perhaps that would be ok w me in a wink wink moment, destruct guitar upon my death

I feel less ok buying one now

and I am happy my Gil's have a smooth headstock and say Gilyaron on it.... yea it says les paul model but there is no mistaking--- its different enough but same enough for ME

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I agree, and I would have been much more likely to get the OP’s guitar if it simply had Bartlett on the headstock.
I can’t remember, is the headstock shape of your Yaron strategically altered a smidge too? It doesn’t matter to me really, but I’m just wondering.

RocknRollShakeUp said:

I agree, and I would have been much more likely to get the OP’s guitar if it simply had Bartlett on the headstock.
I can’t remember, is the headstock shape of your Yaron strategically altered a smidge too? It doesn’t matter to me really, but I’m just wondering.

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Yes- no open book on the top- it’s just smooth

renderit said:

NYCBURST

Every couple of pages you come in here and make remarks which display a confusing amount of butt hurt.

Your 'dick' and 'mean' and 'tough' talk tend to make me believe you don't read very well and/or you have had some pretty bad experiences in life.

Or perhaps written English (sorry to my Englisher friends here) excuse me, American version of English 2.0 is not your regular cup of tea.

We actually could be friends.

If you lose the chip.

Try hard to lose the chip.

Go back and read the posts like it is good friends arguing over a beer.

Which is what it really is.

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Yep, that's it, you're absolutely right. Good job..

Gents, let's not resort to name calling.

Pellman73 said:

Yes- no open book on the top- it’s just smooth

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Yeah, he does it right all the way through.

lim_lau said:

Hi, everyone. here is lim from China. i am new around, this is my first post on this awesome forum to share the most incredible les paul i've ever had.

And a big shout out to mr tom bartlett who is a real deal of guitar maker in Canada. u guys probably knew him already, but i think u gotta own or owned one of his work to

really know what is he is about!!! this is a nice les paul replica with all the right materials, everything r up to the top notch and down to the details. the only bad thing for

great work is being too les paul, u can't even think of use it to do non les paul thing!!! so without more bull feces, let's check this master piece out

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Absolutely killer !!!!! Such a unique top too, looks very authentic.

Triburst said:

I've always thought that if I did have a replica made (or do it myself now that I'm retired), I'd want to make the logo "Fibson." Just because that's my kind of humor.eace2

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:hee

Hate Trump, love Trump... you read it all day long on FB and everywhere else... well this is the same thing... we're all going to pound our own chests, but whatever side your on, youre not gonna change your opinion anyway... so anything I say is a waste of time, but I'll say it anyway!!!

As a Bartlett replica owner, I too have been called a poser, a fraud, a thief, and worse... but yet I do find it funny that Ive never heard anyone say the same thing of Slash... why, because he's a star and Im not?... he played his Gibson adorned Derrig simply because it was the best sounding guitar he had at the time... it wasnt until he had enough money for real bursts that he was able to find something as good... he is on record saying that... and the argument that it was OK because Gibson wasnt making Les Pauls as accurate at the time is silly... And I dont think he had panic attacks from guilt while recording Appetite because it has a Gibson logo on it... If Im a fraud and a poser and a cheat then so is Slash... spread the venom equally!... I play Bartlett replicas because as great as Gibson reissues are, I like the replica better... and I CANT buy a real burst... next question Im sure will be why I want a Gibson logo on it... Because its a replica, a tribute to an iconic instrument, like a Ford Cobra replica, that says Ford on it... the intention of the builder and the buyer is NOT to deceive!... And I proudly show it off for what it is... as far as the guitar changing hands and being passed off down the road as an original, well yes I see the issue with that... but youre telling me that a historic cant be manipulated with chew marks, re-boarded, re-bound, re-painted, etc. and an attempt made to do the same thing?... any replica or 'real' Gibson that is sold with that intent is now truly a counterfeit and the seller needs to be hung out to dry... And although I can certainly tell the difference between my guitar and real bursts, I myself will have the cavity stamped on my next replica being built to note that it is not a real '59 Les Paul... I know that wont be good enough for some of you but honestly thats not my concern.

Hey Ed A, wondered when you might show up. That early patent # you sold me 12 years ago is in the neck of my replica. Got a 61 SG PAF in the bridge, they work great together!

I like the Bartlett and can relate to both sides in this replica rigmarole. On the one hand, the protection of trademarks is a fundamental tenet of our society. On the other side of the argument is the oftentimes superior quality of the hand built replicas compared to recent mass-produced Gibson offerings. Both are valid arguments.

But let's not forget that Gibson's top of the line Les Paul models were recently built and offered for sale with two-piece fingerboards, which Gibson's CEO publicly proclaimed as being superior to the tradition one-piece fingerboards. That was an outright lie and intended to deceive the public. The real reason Gibson chose to make guitars with two-piece fingerboards is they got busted for CITES Act violations and had to resort to unorthodox methods and procedures for building necks and keeping the production line open in 2012. The result is you have thousand of buyers of these guitars who will take a huge $$ hit when they attempt to sell their guitars on the used market. Many owners have paid guitar builders to remove and replace the two-piece fingerboards with Brazilian Rosewood.

Gibson is not squeaky clean in it's dealing with the public or their employees. The recent firings of top managers at Gibson Custom Shop was a shameful act on the part of Gibson's CEO. These individuals built the Custom Shop from the ground up, and look at what they got at the end of the day! The boot! Things were so bad at Gibson that the CEO was kicked out this year and replaced with a new CEO who is expected to turn things around.

Hey Ed, I don’t see much of an analogy with Trump, love him or hate him, it would be hard to deny that you have one guy against the tyranny of propagandist elite media, hedge fund billionaires, Silicon Valley lottery winners, Hollywood celebrities, global corpratists, not to mention universities that serve as indoctrination camps where any dissent is shunned with religious fervor.

I don’t see so many long knives out against replicas or their owners. I think even the harshest critiques understand the appeal of a replica.

I stopped playing Les Pauls some years back and didn’t own one for several years because I felt next to a Strat, the LP was too numb and tonally cumbersome. Thick and loud with a great growl for sure, like a sweet muscle car that’s great for stoplight racing and boulevard touring. But not nimble and transparent and see I’m a Porsche guy, I like the curves and being able to feel the road through my fingers.

That assessment changed when I picked up my first 2013 CC. While I still loved the conversion and GTs I played and almost bought, that hollow woody transparent honky vocally tone was there. My TH59 and Brazilian R9 are better still, though I chalk this up to the fact that every great guitar is to some degree a happy accident as no two are the same. Do I lwant an original Gold Top, absolutely, but it comes from a place of wanting to own a cool piece of American music history.

Slash is really an outlier and more of an exception to the rule. And when Slash picked up his replica there was no historic Les Paul manufactured using hide glue for sale. Also, any guitar Slash played will reach a level of notoriety that probably precludes it from being passed off as a Burst, not to mention Slash’s association would probably bring Burst levels of value anyway.

It’s unfortunate you’ve been called those names but at least you’re not getting the Trump treatment. I think we come from a generation where it’s still ok to wear big boy pants and so we are not so easily triggered.

A replica built to exacting specs but with an identifiable mark or tag would at least eliminate a primary objection and I still don’t see why something so reasonable cannot be adopted. But then again in today’s world reasonable and compromise seem to be a lost art.

Ed A said:

Hate Trump, love Trump... you read it all day long on FB and everywhere else... well this is the same thing... we're all going to pound our own chests, but whatever side your on, youre not gonna change your opinion anyway... so anything I say is a waste of time, but I'll say it anyway!!!

As a Bartlett replica owner, I too have been called a poser, a fraud, a thief, and worse... but yet I do find it funny that Ive never heard anyone say the same thing of Slash... why, because he's a star and Im not?... he played his Gibson adorned Derrig simply because it was the best sounding guitar he had at the time... it wasnt until he had enough money for real bursts that he was able to find something as good... he is on record saying that... and the argument that it was OK because Gibson wasnt making Les Pauls as accurate at the time is silly... And I dont think he had panic attacks from guilt while recording Appetite because it has a Gibson logo on it... If Im a fraud and a poser and a cheat then so is Slash... spread the venom equally!... I play Bartlett replicas because as great as Gibson reissues are, I like the replica better... and I CANT buy a real burst... next question Im sure will be why I want a Gibson logo on it... Because its a replica, a tribute to an iconic instrument, like a Ford Cobra replica, that says Ford on it... the intention of the builder and the buyer is NOT to deceive!... And I proudly show it off for what it is... as far as the guitar changing hands and being passed off down the road as an original, well yes I see the issue with that... but youre telling me that a historic cant be manipulated with chew marks, re-boarded, re-bound, re-painted, etc. and an attempt made to do the same thing?... any replica or 'real' Gibson that is sold with that intent is now truly a counterfeit and the seller needs to be hung out to dry... And although I can certainly tell the difference between my guitar and real bursts, I myself will have the cavity stamped on my next replica being built to note that it is not a real '59 Les Paul... I know that wont be good enough for some of you but honestly thats not my concern.

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Hey JPP, all good thoughts but a couple of things where you may have missed the point which is probably more from my lack of clear communication. The Trump thing was me trying to be more philosophical if anything on how people will have their opinion one way or another and it’s kind of funny how we spend pages and pages here on this forum arguing the wonders or the evils of replicas. Really has nothing to do with Trump himself, just pointing out the daily brawls I see on Facebook between the same people and nobody gives in to the opposite opinion so why do we even bother? I guess because it’s human nature! ... The other point I don’t think you are getting with all due respect is what I am referring to with Slash has nothing to do with whether there were Brazilian board reissues with no truss rod condoms, etc. back when he was recording appetite. It has to do with him playing an illegal counterfeit, fake Les Paul. Which he clearly had no moral issue with. He was looking for the best tool for the job and that was it at that time. I’ve questioned why some of the haters havent called him a thief and a poser for doing so? That’s all!... in the long run if we all just chew on a piece of custard pie I think we would feel better.

I would like to chime in here but I've been reluctant to, as I feel, unlike what JPP-1 said -- that there HAVE been long knives here (or perhaps short jabby ones) and no I don't get the sense that the people who are against replicas will even give in to one merit

I felt this thread devolved into a Trump Twitter account, if we can bring in Trump. It was just a lot of name calling and throwing around disparaging words about replicas, replica owners, and replica makers. Fakers, frauds, fools, thieves. It is really not that interesting and its just sandbox infantile stuff.

What is MORE interesting, and what I would HOPE for was what Ed A was alluding to. Some of the philosophical deeper discussion about why they exist, why we (and as a Gil yaron acolyte I'll put myself in the WE category) own and play these guitars.

If we can put aside any of the morality or legality (and that means thinking and discussing this rationally-- which as Ed A was saying is NOT POSSIBLE for some people because their opinions are so strong-- like on Trump) then perhaps we could have what a real Forum should be all about-- people expressing their take on a subject, thoughtfully and respectfully exchanged

I want to give MY story here, because it also addresses JPP-1's point about some of the better Gibson offerings.

I'm going to compare these guitars to eras of movies. AGAIN THIS IS ONE MAN'S EXPERIENCE

2003 I buy my first real Gibson les paul with moonlighting earnings from working in an emergency room while training to be a general surgeon knowing it will be years before I have the money to buy one again. It was an extremely extravagant purchase at the time but it was so great. I drove down to Sam Ash in richmond, picked a Honeyburst with the 50's neck (that year you could get 50's or 60's neck) off the wall and cherished it for the next 12 years. It weighed a shade under 10 lbs!

That guitar I'd call a Talkie. A black and white movie that just had gotten words you could hear

2016 I got two Gibson Les Pauls

I got a 2003 Duane Allman Hotlanta (which was a grail guitar for me... at the time (who knew Grails can change :rofl)
and a CC 15 Greg Martin (which had all sorts of mojo as it had been owned by Derek St Holmes and Slash had actually played it live at one of the Whitford/St Holmes gig.)

Both of those guitars were amazing! But were still kind of missing something. I even put Wizz Hotlanta pickups IN hotlanta and I had regular Wizzers in the CC15.... even though these guitars were light years ahead of the 2003 honey burst they still were not all that inspiring and never really sounded like les pauls sounded to me in all the classic sounds (Beano, early ZZ top, Joe Walsh)

these guitars were like color movies with music. Way more to them in all aspects than the honey burst but I was still left searching

I worked my way up to a Green Lemon with Braz Board from the run late 2017. A grail guitar I THOUGHT.

it was an incredible guitar. maybe we can call that one a 3-d movie.... was close. felt great, looked great, and sounded great and sounded pretty much what I thought what les pauls sounded like

but I was still searching

speaking of searching why do you think people switch out Throbaks and Wizzers and Ox4s and all these aftermarket pickups into their Gibson Les Pauls? I think its because they are experiencing what IVE experienced-- the experience of playing the les paul just IS NOT QUITE WHAT WE ARE LOOKING FOR- OR TRYING TO HEAR.

so after reading about the Gil Yaron replicas and reading his TDPRI (or part of it... its LONG) build thread I jumped at the chance to get my first Gil a year ago and actually TRADED the hotlanta for it.

Well from pulling that guitar out of its case, fondling it, plugging it in and stringing my first chord, then playing my first notes in all the three different pup positions its been over for me

That guitar is like going to a 3-D IMAX movie. Everything comes to life, and you are so fucking delighted by playing it you giggle. You want to run around and tell everyone. you want to run to the top of a hill like Julie Andrews and spin around and Sing 'THE HILLS ARE ALIVE!"

FINALLY you say-- THIS is what all the hype is about!

The guitar is so good that when another came up I sold gob loads of stuff to get my SECOND ONE.

I don't own any Gibson les pauls anymore

If I was a multimillionaire you bet your ass the FIRST thing I"d do is get a real burst. But that aint happening. So for me, I wanted the closest thing to the real thing and from MY EXPERIENCE that has been playing replicas, not what Gibson has had to offer

So that's been my experience. is there A POSSIBLE PLACEBO EFFECT? I don't know... I doubt it.

now that means I've played and owned three Gibson Custom shops (the Hotlanta, the CC15, and the Green Lemon w Braz board). I've played a smattering of others in music stores. There may be some that are just as good that I've never played. mine may have been duds. A pro player I know played them and thought they were great. guitars-- they ARE great guitars (actually I've tried to buy the Greg Martin back. that one I regret getting rid of) I don't know-- but I'm just saying from my experience the search was over once I played a not-gibson les paul.

and to me the most important thing, in this very short life we live, is to get as much joy out of it and as much joy out of our guitars.

I feel I"ve contributed to Gibson's bottom line. What have they ever done for me? My gils do not have a Gibson headstock so they can't be mistaken as real. And to be honest I like that they are just a little different up there. I'm not sure I'd want one that says Gibson-- and maybe thats just from being here and my opinion my have been swayed a little on that subject. Otherwise knowing about slash and his derrig I would have thought "who cares. its kind of cool. maybe a little illicit --- and isn't Rock n Roll about saying FU to the man?"

I would say that until you've played one of these guitars you should reserve judgement. At least have an informed opinion.

does it Spark Joy ? or not.....

discussions about legality, morality, all those other things should be a separate subject (if we can do that). but getting down to the nitty gritty of why we own them is very simple. they kick ass and get us closer to playing a real burst (in our opinions) than anything Gibson has to offer us since 1960

Again, nobody is against a Les Paul style guitar. There are many builders making excellent quality guitars these days.

The issue is the IP infringement (Gibson name, headstock shape, Les Paul Model silkscreen).

These "holy grail" sounding guitars would sound the same without infringing on Gibson's IP, and there would be no issue.

This is no different to me than fake Rolex watches, Gucci bags, Nike shoes, etc.

renderit said:

And I feel both of YOU have really missed the point of the other side of the discussion while alluding to US missing the other side of the discussion.

YOU are taking the comments made by myself as a comment on YOU. MINE were not.

Please note I took care NOT to label the BUYER as ANYTHING.

Fact 1) If it is not a Gibson but labeled as such it IS A FAKE, COUNTERFEIT, et alia.

Fact 2) As such the builder is KNOWINGLY producing a FAKE, COUNTERFEIT, et alia making him a knowing participant of using someone else's name, labors, et al. to glean profit from his labors which could not be gained (possibly) from his own accomplishments. He is adding the value of the known name to his art which they had no profit in or labors to impart.

Fact 3) The builder of such piece is using the above knowingly meaning he is guilty of thievery of the originals fame and name.

If you can't accept that plain and simply, I have nothing but love for you but also pity in that you can't understand facts and wish to take it as a personal affront. It is not.

The new posters ONLY transgression is posting the logo. I have no doubt it is an awesome guitar. Posting the logo is a no-no. If he said it was a replica and did not post that I doubt the discussion would have reached this many pages BECAUSE a fine guitar is a fine guitar!

I believe only one SIDE here is conflating. The rest is really very simple.

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Thievery is kind of a harsh word. These builders do not have the intent to fool anyone. But then again, as you said before I'm a very wounded individual, who has had a lot of bad experiences in life, so what do I know. Wink, wink...

NYCBURST said:

Thievery is kind of a harsh word. These builders do not have the intent to fool anyone. But then again, as you said before I'm a very wounded individual, who has had a lot of bad experiences in life, so what do I know. Wink, wink...

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Harsh words with a definition that fits though. You gotta give me that.

I AM open to other words if you wish to make me politically correct.

And what do you know of their intent? You read minds? Their intent was to make a no holds barred replica. And they did a very good job. They are making money off of it.

That by definition is wrong...

And I will STILL buy you a beer! We can ease your suffering and injuries with a pint or four!