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Year-by-Year History of the Historic Les Paul Collection

kink56

Les Paul Froum Member
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Dec 20, 2004
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7,672
This is a great idea, many thanks for all the work. I have a 1995 R4 (4 5784), not sure when they started.


R4 GT or R4 Custom? Pictures? I have seen Customs from the 93-95 period that did NOT have the Y yxxx SN format where Y=year represented y=year of manufacture, but rather a y xxxx format like Classics and preHistorics where y= year of manufacture. That is I have seen 1957 style Custom Reissue with a 3,4 or 5 as the first digit in the SN. This has been VERY confusing and I can't get a consistant, straight answer from Gibson on this. I also asked for pictures (they were on Ebay) of the tenon, and they were NOT long tenons.
 

tooold

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Jul 31, 2006
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2,071
R4 GT or R4 Custom? Pictures? I have seen Customs from the 93-95 period that did NOT have the Y yxxx SN format where Y=year represented y=year of manufacture, but rather a y xxxx format like Classics and preHistorics where y= year of manufacture. That is I have seen 1957 style Custom Reissue with a 3,4 or 5 as the first digit in the SN. This has been VERY confusing and I can't get a consistant, straight answer from Gibson on this. I also asked for pictures (they were on Ebay) of the tenon, and they were NOT long tenons.

Hey, Kink -

Goldtop:

R4-front-small.jpg


Rounded inlays, so I'm assuming it's not a 2005. I might have a tenon shot somewhere if that would be helpful, but it sounds like you're interested in Customs.
 

kink56

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I am not interested in Customs but only to solve the mystery and lack of info on these. There seems to be a LOT of inconsistancy on these! One person told me they did not have the long tenon until 1999!!

Yours is a rare bird. It shows that there are Les Paul RIs that were not in the catalog, but obviously either special ordered or made but not yet part of the official lineup. Much like the Standard was not in the catalog until 1976, but part of regular production in 1974, and special order since at least 1972.
 

delawaregold

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Jun 27, 2005
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So in other words you could have a soft maple top or a hard maple top depending on the supplier of wood!

Reliable information is hard to come by, and somewhat cryptic.
The way I read this is; In 1991,’92,’93, and the start of ‘94, the
only flame Maple used was Eastern Hard Rock Maple.
In mid 1994, after the formation of the wood buying team, any
Maple with great flame; Eastern, Western, Hard, Soft, could and
would have been used. If it was flamed Maple, they used it.
Maple use continued this way until 2003, when the specification
was changed back to Eastern Maple.

[EDIT] It is reported that Quilted Maple is always Western, regardless of the year.
******* Birdseye, and Burl Maple are always Eastern, regardless of the year.
 
Last edited:

alexanderja

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Feb 12, 2007
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Danelectro, this is turning out to be one of the most useful interesting threads yet to appear on this Forum.

RESPECT SIR !!!:salude
 

sunburst_59

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Jun 20, 2006
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Does anyone have any idea of production numbers for the early 59 historics in particular? Specifically the 93 thru 98 years, obviously Gibson boosted production massively in 99 due to the 40th anniversary and I think probably made about 250 Murphy 59's in 99 + 1500 or so regular 59's, but I'm guessing average 400 pa for the previous years?
 

kink56

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Under 400 for 93 and 94 500-800 would be my guess for 95-98. About 2500 for 99 and over 2000 for 2000, 500 for 01 and 300 for 02. 03 and up 1500+ (these are ESTIMATES)
 

Modtourman

Member
Joined
Sep 27, 2003
Messages
741
2001 R9's were the first to have the lightweight aluminum tailpiece and tortoise side dot markers among other changes that year.

I can confirm this - the 2001 R8's also had these changes that year.

Great thread DANELECTRO!
 

sunburst_59

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Jun 20, 2006
Messages
8
My 93 59 is #9 3100, ie the 100th made and the Warranty card is stamped 11/3/93 which I take to mean November 3rd, here in the UK we would normally read that as 11th March but I'm assuming the usual US convention applies. So if an early November guitar is only number 100 they can't have made that many more in 93? I believe they didn't start full production of the Historic R9 until mid/late 93. Many thanks for the help.
 

TM1

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Jun 27, 2003
Messages
8,349
The first two GC R-0's were hand carried by plane to the Hollywood GC on 28th of Sept. 2002. The remaining 3 went by FedEx truck that same week. They is listed as "LPR0PTKBNH1 LP 60 Plaintop"
Both the first two had Birdseye tops. The other three were plaintops.
 

MikeSlub

Administrator
Joined
Jul 15, 2001
Messages
15,166
Reliable information is hard to come by, and somewhat cryptic.
The way I read this is; In 1991,’92,’93, and the start of ‘94, the
only flame Maple used was Eastern Hard Rock Maple.
In mid 1994, after the formation of the wood buying team, any
Maple with great flame; Eastern, Western, Hard, Soft, could and
would have been used. If it was flamed Maple, they used it.
Maple use continued this way until 2003, when the specification
was changed back to Eastern Maple.

[EDIT] It is reported that Quilted Maple is always Western, regardless of the year.
******* Birdseye, and Burl Maple are always Eastern, regardless of the year.

This is an early '93 pre-Historic; does that look like Eastern Maple to you? It has no mineral flecks, and looked too perfect to me to think it was Eastern, but I'm curious what you guys think.

1004_p15618.jpg
 

kink56

Les Paul Froum Member
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Dec 20, 2004
Messages
7,672
Just because it has no mineral streaks, does not mean it is NOT Eastern. And we are not used to seeing 1/4 sawn tops on the original bursts, just because it is perfectly 1/4 sawn does not mean it is NOT Eastern either.
 

kink56

Les Paul Froum Member
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Dec 20, 2004
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I understand the best way to tell Eastern from Western is the size of the pores. Western has pores, Eastern really doesn't. (in pictures it is hard to tell) Most people assume a perfectly 1/4 sawn top is Western.
 

delawaregold

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Jun 27, 2005
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I have lost count of the hours I have spent doing research on Maple,
Mahogany, and Rosewood. Well over 200, probably 300 hours or
more of reading and comparing. About cut, and grain, and cell structure,
and color, and growing conditions, and on, and on. After all that, to learn
all I could about the different species of wood. The only thing I am
sure of is: I can’t tell from a photograph, definitively what any piece of
wood is, and someone who says they can is delusional. The issues of
photography are too complex. Angle, contrast, lighting, filters, exposure,
digital manipulation, can make any photo “the Money Shot”.
Have you ever meet any of the playboy models that were not quite what
you saw in the magazine? With enough wood to choose from a Luthier
can select wood with all the characteristics of another species.
Time and time again Madagascar Rosewood has been passed off as Brazilian.
I can only say that I have to rely on the accepted information, and the
word of people that were there at the time. In spite of what my eyes might
tell me.
A magician loves people that trust what they see, over what their intellect
tells them.
 

delawaregold

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Jun 27, 2005
Messages
1,814
I can't tell you anything definitively from a photo,
but, I don't see anything in that photo that would preclude
that guitar from having an Eastern Maple top.
I believe it was Browneyes that showed a very similar top
he had made from Maple he cut on his own property.
 

delawaregold

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Jun 27, 2005
Messages
1,814
Not to hijack this thread, because it has been very useful,
but obviously Mike you feel that the guitar you posted is
not Eastern Maple. What is your opinion of the 1952
pictured below?


_MG_1611.jpg

_MG_1631.jpg

_MG_1615.jpg


How does the flame on this guitar differ significantly from the guitar you posted?
Other than it is book matched.
 

MikeSlub

Administrator
Joined
Jul 15, 2001
Messages
15,166
Not to hijack this thread, because it has been very useful,
but obviously Mike you feel that the guitar you posted is
not Eastern Maple.

I don't really know what it is; as you mention, it is sometimes almost impossible to tell. I am also not sure that that Eastern maple was used exclusively during the early 90's. :hank
 
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