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Year-by-Year History of the Historic Les Paul Collection

delawaregold

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Jun 27, 2005
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Soft Maple=Western big leaf. I am not so sure, I think they started using that in mid 94 or so. Except for the quilts all along.

That is correct, as per Walt Carter.

WC.jpg
 

delawaregold

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Jun 27, 2005
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What about the "Stinger" run which was when? '03? Did these have BR board?

Stinger Series Historic Reissue Les Pauls all have Brazilian Rosewood fingerboards
[EDIT] This refers to the Music Machine Stinger Series Historic Reissue Les Pauls.
******* not all Les Pauls with stingers made in 2003 were part of this series.

LINK:

http://www.stingerguitars.com/
 
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DANELECTRO

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Feb 24, 2003
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I added a "Links" section to post #2. To kick things off I scanned a copy of my 1993 Historic catalog into JPG format and uploaded the files to Photobucket. If you have additional links with pertinate Historic spec information, reply to the thread and I'll add them to the list in post #2

1993 Historic Collection Catalog
 

Rumbling_Groover

Les Paul Forum Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2002
Messages
1,089
Hi Danelectro, I've been hoping someone would attempt this for a while, I actually have 5 historic reissue R9 1959 LP's, a 93, 94, 95, 96 and a 97, so if you want any direct comparisons I would be happy to help. As you rightly state the 93 has the Historic decal on the back, R9 brand in the control cavity, fat 59 neck, long tenon, but the Holly head veneer is thinner than the later models, the neck angle is a little less acute, the colour is more of a light sunburst and the guitar never came with a scratchplate. Incidentally mine is # 9 3100 and is an early November 1993 guitar.

The 94 and 95 both have a thicker holly veneer and have a darker, richer colour, also they both have a more yellowed or aged apperarance to the binding.

The 96 is even darker and heavier but then again I have had a light 96 as well, generally though the 96's I have seen tend to have more PRS type very uniform and well bookmatched tops, the 94's and 95's tend to be a bit wilder and probably have a more authentic, less contrived look.

The 97 is the best of the lot flame wise, very broad big leaf maple. I have had a couple of 98's and they tended to have very impressive big leaf tops as well but had the neck pickup route cut a few milimetres lower down the body, hence the gap at the bottom of the pickguard. Also all the 98's I have seen did not have dial pointers on the volume and tone controls. I never liked the the sound of either of the 98's I had, always thought they were a bit thinner sounding on the treble pickup, is that due to the pickup being that little bit further away?

From 99 onwards I lost interest, Gibson started making them in huge numbers and they lost their rarity value for me after that.

For my opinion, (for what it's worth!!) the best years of the historics are 93-97 with 97 having the best tops, but I like the colour of the 94/95's and the 93's are the rarest.

Keep up the good work!!

Great post, and good comparison. Not all the '90s uber tops are big leaf soft maple. I know I have seen a couple of HRMs over time. My '97 R0 has many mineral flecks hidden amongst the wildest of tops. The top wood spec varies on the '90s guitars so it could be big leaf or hard rock.

I agree I lost interest in them when they started making thousands.
 

delawaregold

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Jun 27, 2005
Messages
1,814
Here's an exception...a late '03, Murphy aged, and without a BRW fingerboard

Yes, I am afraid I wasn’t clear. The reference to Stinger Series Historic Reissue Les Pauls,
and the link I provided was directed at;
The Music Machine Stinger Series Historic Reissue Les Pauls.
They had both a Gibson Serial Number and a Music Machine Serial number, and production
was stopped when Gibson would no longer build them to the Music Machine specifications.
Gibson did continue to put stingers on some of their guitars after the Brazilian run had ended,
but these were not part of the MM Stinger Series. Sorry for the confusion. The link would have
clarified the situation, but not everyone clicks on the link.
Your guitars ROCK, by the way!
:salude
 
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MikeSlub

Administrator
Joined
Jul 15, 2001
Messages
15,166
I added a "Links" section to post #2. To kick things off I scanned a copy of my 1993 Historic catalog into JPG format and uploaded the files to Photobucket. If you have additional links with pertinate Historic spec information, reply to the thread and I'll add them to the list in post #2

1993 Historic Collection Catalog

Danelectro, you've done a GREAT job on this project, which is of great service to LPF members. We should contact Lily and have her move this to the Home Page with the other reference materials, so that it will be available to members all the time as a great reference tool. Again, many thanks for initiating this! You rock! :2zone :dude:
 

Mikester

Member
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Aug 26, 2005
Messages
868
2001 R9's were the first to have the lightweight aluminum tailpiece and tortoise side dot markers among other changes that year.

tortoise came in 1999.

"My Y2K R9 does NOT have tortoise fretboard side dot markers."

Are you SURE your Y2K does NOT have tortoise? Both my 99s did! Sometimes you have to shine a VERY bright light to see any red or brown!! Many LOOK black with normal light!

Verified with magnification and VERY bright light - My 2000 R9 does NOT have tortoise fretboard side dot markers. My '67 SG DOES have tortoise, which is visible to the naked eye in bad lighting.
 

kink56

Les Paul Froum Member
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Dec 20, 2004
Messages
7,672
Okay then! Just wanted to make sure, because I have had them that could only be seen in direct bright light before.....some are very obvious, it depends on what part of the sheet is punched and use on a particular guitar. Parts of tortiose material is almost black.
 

moonpie

In the Zone
Joined
May 24, 2003
Messages
9,781
I must hereby embark on a mission to have the 91 & 92 Reissues included in the Historic District of the LPF. I was looking through some old material trying to verify when the Flametop Reissue was added to the Historic Collection. I thought was 92, but I came across the Walter Carter "Keeping the Flame Alive" article which says the Reissue was added to the Historic Collection in 91.

I wouldn't have a problem if we use the long neck tenon to denote the difference in the R series reissues and the Prehistorics, but that would discount a whole bunch of 93 Reissues as well as the 91 and 92 Reissues.
 
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kink56

Les Paul Froum Member
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Dec 20, 2004
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In reference to the R4, R7, R8 and R0 2003 BRW LPs. In those serial number ranges for BRW some are NOT BRW. R4s include Customs, R7s include Juniors AND Customs, R8s include Juniors and R0s include G0s and Specials. Here is an example of that from a Q&A on the Gibson Forum:
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Are any of the serial numbers between 8 3001 and 8 3256 Historic Juniors? Do you have any idea how many?
The same question for R7s between 7 3001 and 7 3707, many Juniors?


Re: R8 BRW (admin)
Posted: 2:13:00 on 12 12 2007 Modified: Never

looks like 31 "8"s and 28 "7"s are Juniors in those ranges.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
 

kink56

Les Paul Froum Member
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Dec 20, 2004
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Another Q&A regarding early 2003 R7s:
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I have heard Gibson admits that 7 3001-7 3010 are NOT Brazilian, even though the site verifies them to be. They are left over 02s. Is this true?


Re: earliest 03 R7s (admin)
Posted: 8:51:06 on 7 9 2007 Modified: 9:38:55 on 7 9 2007

the info i have indicates the following with regards to BR on 2003 R7s:

1, 5, 6, and 7 have 2002 specs
2 and 3 are LP Juniors
4 is an '03 prototype, so should have brazilian
8, 9 and 10 i don't have any info on these...i don't believe they ever left the building
 

Plankspanker

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Jul 16, 2001
Messages
3,797
Great job on this Dano, once it's finished it should be required reading for forum membership, that along with an article on Topwrapping and aging hardware.

Think the Brown Lifton cases were made in Costa Rica not Guatemala.
 

kink56

Les Paul Froum Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2004
Messages
7,672
Comments on the R0 BRW of 2003:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
I know that 50 of the R0s from 0 3001 to 0 3163 are G0s and NOT BRW according to the Brazilian check site http://www.guitarpool.com/cgi-bin/brcheck.pl Can you tell me how many are R0 Specials? The site only mentions that if you have a R7 R8 or R0 Junior or Special, then you do NOT have BRW. Just how many R0 BRWs are there?


Re: R0 BRW (admin)
Posted: 8:03:29 on 7 24 2007 Modified: Never

some of the spreadsheet info i have on the 2003 '60s is a bit ambiguous...to be certain, i'd have to run all 163 numbers through our database, which i just don't have time to do. Based on the spreadsheet info though, i would say it's in the neighborhood of 80 of them that have BR. if there's a specific number in question, feel free to post.
 

kink56

Les Paul Froum Member
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Dec 20, 2004
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Even though the R2 was offered with BRW, no one bought any R2 before May, so none were actually produced.
 

kink56

Les Paul Froum Member
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Dec 20, 2004
Messages
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That is right, between mid 94 and 2002 you could have either Eastern or Western Maple on your Flametop/figured top LP. (Quilt is always Western, Birdseye is always Eastern....and flecking is indicative of Eastern, but just because is does not have flecking does not mean it is not Eastern) Also HRM is a particular type of Eastern, not all Eastern is HRM, but all HRM is Eastern.

I am sure the maple wood expert here (forgot who) will chime in on this, with genus-species explanations.
 
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