Exposing the "evil doers"...

lpnv59 · Feb 15, 2014

Wilko said:
We need to define some terms.

Evil
Slimy
weasley
underhanded
unethical
fraud
hack

Maybe an assigned order of magnitude?

(partially joking)

How about all of the above?

I think the the Music Ground gang have to be the kings of all of the above. A friend of mine told me of his meeting with Richard & Justin thru a mutual friend of theirs. An Italian gentleman by the name of Perpaolo. They were given the grand tour of their shop where he was shown around including a room where they were making up old AC30's and Marshall amps. He was amazed at how upfront and blatent they were. Completely to the point of boasting about what they were doing. I just don't know how anyone would think of doing any business with these criminals.

Eventually Perpaulo was betrayed by the Harrison's when they hired Russian/Serbian gangsters to steal his collection.

http://www.lespaulforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=118423

http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co....rail-of-stolen-guitars-led-to-leeds-1-4289238

Cogswell · Feb 15, 2014

This is the thread:
http://www.lespaulforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=178642

JJ Blair · Feb 15, 2014

Oooh, here's a good evil do'er story:

John Nelson, who owned/owns Vintage Instruments, (which happened to have the cuntiest salespeople I've ever experienced) threw together a Partscaster, went to an old folks home, and paid somebody there to hold the guitar, took a picture, and sold it on eBay as being from the original owner.

I believe the shop had to close down because they were either not doing police holds, or got busted selling some hot items. Oops! There was a lot of schadenfreude on Sunset Blvd, as everybody seemed to think he was an underhanded douche nozzle.

JJ Blair · Feb 15, 2014

Here's another one. A friend buys a perfect blue sparkle strat. I think it was a 1960 or 62. Can't remember. He has a picture of the guy he bought it from, playing it with his band back then, and also a picture of the guy holding it under the Xmas tree on the Xmas day he got it, back then. Serious provenance. Figured out that it was a special order from some shop in Oklahoma or something, where all these sparkle Fenders came out of.

Anyway, he sells it to some cat in I think Maine, at the height of the market. Major bucks. Less than a year later, the guy in Maine sues the seller for misrepresentation. It was total bullshit, and he was only able to get away with it, because of some special Maine law. Also, the guy had a habit of doing this. My friend was like the fifth dealer to get sued by this guy. It's apparently what this buyer does; he buys expensive guitars, and then sues the sellers. It became such a pain in the ass and so stressful, that my friend wound up just settling to get the guy off his back. I can't remember the name of the buyer who sued, but I told TW about it. Maybe he still has the name.

garywright · Feb 16, 2014

JJ Blair said:
Oooh, here's a good evil do'er story:

John Nelson, who owned/owns Vintage Instruments, (which happened to have the cuntiest salespeople I've ever experienced) threw together a Partscaster, went to an old folks home, and paid somebody there to hold the guitar, took a picture, and sold it on eBay as being from the original owner.

that's gotta be the record for the dirtiest of dirty deals :dang

kharrison · Feb 16, 2014

I did a trade deal a few years back with a dealer in Franklin Ohio. He had a clean, no issue '64 SG Standard that looked brand new. I had a 57 TV Jr and a player grade '69 Deluxe. He was asking 12k for the clean SG and that is what I basically had in my two guitars at the time. This was at the height of the bubble. I asked if the guitar had any issues and he said no, he broke out in broad daylight a pen sized black light and shows me the heel and neck areas. All looked good. I get the guitar home and emailed another dealer friend in my area at the time and he said did I black light the guitar. I said that he did at the store but his responce was did you REALLY black light it yourself. Now I am nervous and take the guitar down to his shop. Turn the lights out and flash the big long light on the back of the headstock and sure enough and old headstock repair. Plain as day. I call the dealer back and he says there is no crack and he is not taking the guitar back. I then show up at his store and show him with my own light and he says it is a grain flaw and the deal is done....get out. I refused to leave, words were exchanged etc and I left with my TV Jr and he kept the deluxe. It was a hard lesson to learn but after that exchange I learned to never trust anyone in this biz.

Pat Boyack · Feb 16, 2014

JJ Blair said:
John Nelson, who owned/owns Vintage Instruments, (which happened to have the cuntiest salespeople I've ever experienced) threw together a Partscaster, went to an old folks home, and paid somebody there to hold the guitar, took a picture, and sold it on eBay as being from the original owner.

Wow!!! They put the shit in "Shitty" with this one. :hank

sunburst1 · Feb 16, 2014

JJ Blair said:
Anyway, he sells it to some cat in I think Maine, at the height of the market. Major bucks. Less than a year later, the guy in Maine sues the seller for misrepresentation. It was total bullshit, and he was only able to get away with it, because of some special Maine law. Also, the guy had a habit of doing this. My friend was like the fifth dealer to get sued by this guy. It's apparently what this buyer does; he buys expensive guitars, and then sues the sellers. It became such a pain in the ass and so stressful, that my friend wound up just settling to get the guy off his back. I can't remember the name of the buyer who sued, but I told TW about it. Maybe he still has the name.

Think the guy your referring to is Patrick Gafney or something like that , and he's from Vermont. Had a huge collection which he sold off years ago now. Don't think he's into the game anymore , could be wrong?

Did a deal on an expensive vintage LP with him through a friend and was worried for awhile after , if he was going to pull some stunt. Lucky for everyone the deal went smoothly. He's a real odd fellow indeed.

Remember hearing all kinds of stories about him on deals gone wrong etc. He bought a lot of bad stuff, but also had a ton of killer vintage guitars from my memory. He would bring a ton of stuff to the Philly show and it was

always a large spectacle of vintage splendor.

Tom Wittrock · Feb 16, 2014

hoss said:
The Runt from South Africa, that CFH wanted to buy?

The South African "verifier"/dealer got it for approx. $50K, cleaned it up and flipped it for $180K.
A couple of months later it turned up in Germany for €200K.

Now JoeB owns it and it sounds INCREDIBLE. I have seen him play it live in Vienna last fall. Best guitar sound of the evening (and there were no "bad" sounding guitars).

It wasn't that much.

Tom Wittrock · Feb 16, 2014

Cogswell said:
Just like the shady shyster who went to "verify" a particular 'Burst & bought it out from under the buyer.

Banker said:
In the last few weeks?

hoss said:
The Runt from South Africa, that CFH wanted to buy?

The South African "verifier"/dealer got it ....

Another UK connected dealer. :ganz

JJ Blair · Feb 16, 2014

sunburst1 said:
Think the guy your referring to is Patrick Gafney or something like that , and he's from Vermont. Had a huge collection which he sold off years ago now. Don't think he's into the game anymore , could be wrong?

Yes! That was his name. Never sell to that guy, AFAIC.

This was last year that my friend went through this. Took a couple of years, and lots of attorney fees. It was messed up. There was absolutely nothing wrong with this guitar. He just regretted the price he paid, or something.

Doc Sausage · Feb 16, 2014

Cogswell said:
This is the thread:
http://www.lespaulforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=178642

Well now, that was quite entertaining - even two years down the road.

hoss · Feb 16, 2014

TW59 said:
It wasn't that much.

Well, I don't know what it sold for but he had it on his website for 180.

JBLPplayer · Feb 16, 2014

TW59 said:
It wasn't that much.

I agree 100 % :2cool

Joe B

hoss · Feb 16, 2014

http://www.lespaulforum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2328236&postcount=286

landminelenny · Feb 16, 2014

TW59 said:
Another UK connected dealer. :ganz

Who is he connected with in the uk?

ourmaninthenorth · Feb 16, 2014

landminelenny said:
Who is he connected with in the uk?

I doubt it matters who, it seems every UK guy that's ever looked at, even in passing, anything vintage, is a gobshite. Glass houses springs to mind, of course said in the same spirit of generalisation that appears to be the gathering norm here. All UK enthusiasts are NOT, I repeat NOT Music Ground by proxy.

Doc Sausage · Feb 16, 2014

JBLPplayer said:
I agree 100 % :2cool

Joe B

The quest for, the acquisition of, these guitars seems so much more appropriate for someone like you - the man who uses the tools of his trade almost nightly. Not that us mere mortals don't deserve a great ax too but in my feeble mind, it seems like working artists would be less apt to deceive and would also keep the business "cleaner."

Or is that total naivete'? Has anyone ever dealt with with an unscrupulous "artist?" I read about the likes of Joe B and Ed King here and get the sense these gentlemen are the salt of the earth. I think I'd work with them any time. (if I were so positioned to deal in the vintage guitar arena)

landminelenny · Feb 16, 2014

Doc Sausage said:
The quest for, the acquisition of, these guitars seems so much more appropriate for someone like you - the man who uses the tools of his trade almost nightly. Not that us mere mortals don't deserve a great ax too but in my feeble mind, it seems like working artists would be less apt to deceive and would also keep the business "cleaner."

Or is that total naivete'? Has anyone ever dealt with with an unscrupulous "artist?" I read about the likes of Joe B and Ed King here and get the sense these gentlemen are the salt of the earth. I think I'd work with them any time. (if I were so positioned to deal in the vintage guitar arena)

Well, Paul Stanley is parading a fake burst as the 'real deal'.

landminelenny · Feb 16, 2014

Exposing the "evil doers"...

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