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Which new pots most like a vintage centralab?

thin sissy

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 2, 2006
Messages
2,691
Thanks for the info! Are they "tight" to turn or easy? If you could, how would you compare them to old Centralabs?
 

AA00475Bassman

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Joined
Apr 26, 2016
Messages
3,769
They turn very easy no resistance ball bearing like . its been along time since I had any center labs . When I adjust the tone the sound still has a richness, full
not muffled . I do think they would be a compliment for any guitar . I would try these pots before I swapped pickups .
 

P.Walker

New member
Joined
Apr 17, 2007
Messages
941
I have some on order... I'll update y'all once I've had a chance to pop them in... :jim

That's very cool...please do tell us when you have tested them! :)

Few questions...

So these are made by clement and bournes as the literature seems to indicate?

One thing I learned is that the taper of the originals, which these repros are attempting to replicate, are more drastic than the US counterparts (which I assume he means CTS). Yet in the case of RS superpots for example, they say it was made because they found the CTS pots too steep and drastic and thus their final taper is between let's say cts audio and linear. Very confusing. What gives?

As of now, for me gibson historic audio tapers post 09 have been very good and plenty useful for my needs. All clock around 500k, and are quiet and clean up very well loud fuzzes and loud amps.
 

AA00475Bassman

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Apr 26, 2016
Messages
3,769
That's very cool...please do tell us when you have tested them! :)

Few questions...

So these are made by clement and bournes as the literature seems to indicate?

One thing I learned is that the taper of the originals, which these repros are attempting to replicate, are more drastic than the US counterparts (which I assume he means CTS). Yet in the case of RS superpots for example, they say it was made because they found the CTS pots too steep and drastic and thus their final taper is between let's say cts audio and linear. Very confusing. What gives?

As of now, for me gibson historic audio tapers post 09 have been very good and plenty useful for my needs. All clock around 500k, and are quiet and clean up very well loud fuzzes and loud amps.

I also have been happy with historic pots , and have no plans on changing my Les Pauls . I bought 2016 firebird V replaced everything other than tuners .
 

B Ingram

Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2016
Messages
730
After quite a bit of time since this thread started, I still am not seeing where anyone said, "____ brand/model pot performs exactly like an old Centralab."

I don't have issues with the feel or taper of any pots on any of my guitars. I've only heard rumors that Centralab pots in the 50's were a key part of the sound.

I seem to get all the benefits people talk about when using 50's wiring in either my LP or Tele. So if there's any extra "secret sauce" to Centralabs, I'm all ears. Yet for more than 2 years, folks have mentioned they were going to buy ____ pots and see if they stack up to Centralab, yet no report after to say what their findings were.

Will we ever know?
 

EpiLP1985

Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2017
Messages
113
After quite a bit of time since this thread started, I still am not seeing where anyone said, "____ brand/model pot performs exactly like an old Centralab."

I don't have issues with the feel or taper of any pots on any of my guitars. I've only heard rumors that Centralab pots in the 50's were a key part of the sound.

I seem to get all the benefits people talk about when using 50's wiring in either my LP or Tele. So if there's any extra "secret sauce" to Centralabs, I'm all ears. Yet for more than 2 years, folks have mentioned they were going to buy ____ pots and see if they stack up to Centralab, yet no report after to say what their findings were.

Will we ever know?

No secret sauce. Just a nice taper and a ruggedness in common with most other things produced from that era.

If you can find a pot with a 65/35 or 70/30 taper that moves mechanically how you like them stick with that.
 

duaneflowers

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 13, 2013
Messages
2,522
After quite a bit of time since this thread started, I still am not seeing where anyone said, "____ brand/model pot performs exactly like an old Centralab."

I don't have issues with the feel or taper of any pots on any of my guitars. I've only heard rumors that Centralab pots in the 50's were a key part of the sound.

I seem to get all the benefits people talk about when using 50's wiring in either my LP or Tele. So if there's any extra "secret sauce" to Centralabs, I'm all ears. Yet for more than 2 years, folks have mentioned they were going to buy ____ pots and see if they stack up to Centralab, yet no report after to say what their findings were.

Will we ever know?

There aren't any... and the following quote explained why quite nicely...


Ed: The TVTs are not bad and the Historic Spec pots are decent. The problem is that none of these pots will SOUND like the Centralabs. There is an airy quality to them that modern pots can't duplicate. From what I've learned, the Centralabs had lead mixed into the carbon track. Don't know the percentage, but it was enough to add lubricity and longevity to the final product. That's why they've lasted so long. In my opinion, while they can get the taper very close, it's still not exact, and these new pots will have more lower midrange. Just the nature of the beast, unfortunately. All this clicked into place when I added an original Centralab harness with real Bees to my Historic Makeover. It now has a completely vintage electronic component chain. Those pots made it sound as if a blanket had been removed from the guitar. An astounding difference.

As to the amount of torque, that's another thing modern pots seem to not be able to do. DeOxit will make them spin a lot easier, but they never lose that slight tugging feel. Again, the old pots win.

There are pots that sound/perform good, even some that sound/perform great but there are none that perform exactly the same as they are being constructed of different materials. When they say "they don't make them like they used to" that is exactly correct... they don't and can't, although there is the possibility of them being made in a less restrictive country... in which case you run into a host of other problems. Its no secret sauce, just that its not possible to make pots and pickups like they used to due to differences in the manufacturing process.
 

EpiLP1985

Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2017
Messages
113
I would think that most people could generally agree on the following order of importance:

1.) Pot Value - This is the most significant parameter from a tone standpoint. Increasing the value changes the peak frequency of the signal leaving the pot. Any test or experiment where an opinion on a certain pot is formed has to control for value of the pot. This is certainly a reason why people notice a difference with the > 500k values for pots. Also, this is why people have good results with matched sets of pots for consistent tone.

2.) Taper - Taper is of secondary importance but is really neck and neck with pot value. The taper determines the usability of the control but also dictates what resistance values you'll see at certain points in the travel of the pot. So it is in essence indirectly affecting tone by affecting pot value over the travel of the control. Taper is key in determining how the pot reacts in that coveted 6-10 range on the dial, especially if you are using the controls as a dynamic control for your particular setup.

3.) Ruggedness and Feel - Finally, this had been discussed here in a few posts. How the pot turns, its longevity, etc. are a direct result of how it's constructed and what it is constructed of. If you have the right values and taper, you should next look to the durability and "feel" of the pot.

I've had good luck with some expensive and inexpensive pots over the years. Some of the ones I've really like are:

a.) Bourns Minis - I have found that these are pretty consistent value-wise and have a great feel to them. The taper is somewhat better than the standard 80/20 but certainly not that coveted 70/30 or 65/35 often quoted from the vintage pots.

b.) RS Superpots - These are great but I've always had the nagging suspicion that these are just slightly tweaked linear pots with maybe a 60/40 taper. I don't have any data to support that but it just "feels" that way to me. Same semi-rugged and fairly durable construction as most production CTS pots.

c.) Hamers - These pots are great. pretty well constructed with a nice "feel". Values have always been consistent from the small handful I've owned and the taper seems to be pretty close to 70/30.


Some of the pots i'm interested in testing out more thoroughly are:

a.) GFS XGP Custom Taper pots - I have these currently loaded in my son's short scale. Not very rugged and with typical characteristics of cheap Alphas (they are Alphas) but they seem to have a 60/40 taper to them. Easy to burnout when soldering as are all the Alphas I've used so tread lightly. Get in and get out from a soldering point of view.

b.) VIP Pots - These look nice and fairly rugged (and the cost is very nice). The raised lettering is a nice touch and as stated may act as a heat shield and good surface to solder to. Taper should be nice as well.

c.) Retrospec pots - Looking forward to trying these because of the CTS ruggedness and taper.
 

Big Al

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Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
14,537
I just installed a set of these pots with some NOS Sprague matched BB's , the sweep on these pots is smooth no hot spots . From 1-10 a real gradual climb . You can really dial the tone, IMO the pots really opened up the guitar . The best 100.00 I've ever spent really happy with the result !

I completely agree. Eventually they will be installed on all but my vintage guitars.
 

rockinlespaul

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Joined
Oct 21, 2002
Messages
2,202
Retrospec, Dr. Vintage(Rick Norman)or MSSC for me.

DiMarzio pots are great and so are the pots in Hamers from my very little experience with them.

These days I usually just pick up a whole harness from MSSC. Everything is all spec'd out already for you. All you have to do is just drop it in.
 

tonar8353

Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
490
Based on all you fine gentlemen's high praise I tried the Antique Electronic Supply 250K short shaft pots in one of my Strats. I replaced a RS Guitarworks super pot in the volume position and it is exceptional!!! The RS pot worked fine except it felt like it had a 90 lb weight on it compared to the AES pot. The new pot has the perfect tension on it and its dynamic from 1 to 10. I will be replacing the volume pots in all my Strats and Tele's with them.

I'm thinking about my 09 R4, has anyone dropped a set of 500K's in a R4 yet and if so what was the result?
 

1LT

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Joined
Mar 2, 2018
Messages
10
WOW! I just got a set of long shaft and short shafts from these guys. They are very expensive ($25 each as opposed to 12 for very good over 500 rated) but man! These are the highest quality pot I have seen by a WIDE margin. The build is superb. Super smooth. One pot was 501K the others were all 510-513! Consistent as heck. Don't know how they sound yet but these make every other pot I have played with including the old ones look and feel like a steaming turd! Way to go el84ster! Though I am SURE you got no useful advice from me you are my hero!

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i just ran into this thread while searching for info on replacement pots. I was shocked when I went to the above website (tubes and more) and noticed that the price on these PEC pots a has doubled!! WTFO??
 

renderit

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Jan 19, 2009
Messages
10,951
i just ran into this thread while searching for info on replacement pots. I was shocked when I went to the above website (tubes and more) and noticed that the price on these PEC pots a has doubled!! WTFO??

I guess they decided the people would either pay that or their supply is limited...
 

AA00475Bassman

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Apr 26, 2016
Messages
3,769
(i just ran into this thread while searching for info on replacement pots. I was shocked when I went to the above website (tubes and more) and noticed that the price on these PEC pots a has doubled!! WTFO)

People pay 400.00 pickups & use crap
stock pot's really a odd way of thinking IMO .

I bought these pot's installed with alnico pickups , replacing ceramic .

These pots would be worth double IMO !
 
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