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Historic vs. True Historic

shred

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Nov 13, 2003
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4,667
Fortunately there are lots of great used R7-R0's out there, so there are good options for those that can't afford a TH.
 

renderit

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Jan 19, 2009
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Saying if people can't really see the difference they don't need a Gibson sounds a bit bitter and ridiculous on your part. Like I said, I've played a few TH's and my opinion on them is still the same. They are nice guitars (like all years Historics) but IMO no better than previous years unless you are just stuck on a few miniscule cosmetic changes. They definitely are not worth the 30%-50% price increase Gibson is asking IMO.

For that much of a price jump in one year I need more than some minor plastics changes, rolled edges and thinner finish.

Bad wording on my part. The difference in finish is huge IMO. Gibson's prior finishes were worse in a lot of cases than much cheaper guitars. I bemoaned the very thing in previous posts. You found orange peel in many places and incomplete "buffing" or sanding or whatever on most of the guitar if you look close. They say the new ones are hand sanded. I find no orange peel on mine. I can on every 13 and 14 I have ever seen and own.

This takes a LOT of time. You can do it in this country and pay out the wazoo for it, or run it through a country with cheap labor and have a perfectly smooth finish. You call it miniscule. After building a number of guitars and refinishing more than a few I can say it is not. We can agree to disagree.

As to your saying you can see allowing them 300-400 more for the guitar, how decent of you. You have every right to vote with your wallet, and I encourage you to do it. I will as well. And I will not be buying any more most likely (or will buy the 13's and 14's till gone). But I can see where they are getting the price.
 

emg32

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May 27, 2003
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Bad wording on my part. The difference in finish is huge IMO. Gibson's prior finishes were worse in a lot of cases than much cheaper guitars. I bemoaned the very thing in previous posts. You found orange peel in many places and incomplete "buffing" or sanding or whatever on most of the guitar if you look close. They say the new ones are hand sanded. I find no orange peel on mine. I can on every 13 and 14 I have ever seen and own.

This takes a LOT of time. You can do it in this country and pay out the wazoo for it, or run it through a country with cheap labor and have a perfectly smooth finish. You call it miniscule. After building a number of guitars and refinishing more than a few I can say it is not. We can agree to disagree.

As to your saying you can see allowing them 300-400 more for the guitar, how decent of you. You have every right to vote with your wallet, and I encourage you to do it. I will as well. And I will not be buying any more most likely (or will buy the 13's and 14's till gone). But I can see where they are getting the price.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. IMO what Gibson changed for 2015 is no way worth those huge price increases. A 53% jump in R8 prices and a 37% jump in R9 prices is HUGE for one year of slight cosmetic changes.

They may be taking slightly more time to do the hand sanding but at the same time they are cutting out the buffing and VOS application stages. Of course Gibson wants consumers to think differently. They obviously aren't going to say otherwise. The TH's I have seen are not a perfectly smooth finish like a HM or DJ. The nitro seems to be the same as previous years, just slightly thinner. Less product applied saves money also.

Also the way they are doing the hand wet sanding leaves the spider web effect in the finish since after the hand sanding they are not buffing those scratches out.

Opinions are opinions. Everyone's may be different but Gibsons constant huge price increases are not just because they are USA made versus a country with cheaper labor. It's more about cutting labor cost while increasing prices and profits. That is how businesses work. Of course if they take it to far then the consumers will get to a enough is enough point and go elsewhere. Look at the aged guitars. A very lightly aged TH9 is $11,099. $2,500 more than a regular TH9 for a few razor checks and dings. :laugh2:
 

tdarian

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Jun 25, 2008
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I wonder if the True Historics sound any better than the CS series.
 

L.A.Man

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Apr 13, 2003
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I once had a guitar that cost 12k a 54 Les Paul conversion, I sounded the same as when I played my 500 dollar Les Paul faded.

You will too.

Certainly nobody but the rich and famous can spring 11k for a new guitar. But it is the Gibson way, and we all can thank ourselves for the price increase. We drink the kool aid, and they pour another glass for you, second glass is mo money.

The idiot who came up with "true historic'' as the name of this line of LP's ought to be ashamed of themselves. It promotes the language controversy, of true, vs, historic, which obviously causes the loyal customer of past years to feel they were not buying a historically accurate guitar, which we know they weren't. It creates a feel of deception, and animosity towards Gibson, and they deserve it.
 
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Junae9

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May 7, 2015
Messages
58
Good morning everyone.


I would like to ask two questions to you :

1.) you think next year the historic line will be produced as before (before the true historic)?
2.) True Historic prices will be kept in line in 2016 (even producing Historics not true)?


Thank you.
 

ppgf

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Sep 11, 2014
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688


for me it comes down to choosing between better wood or tighter specs.

a 2015 historic with 2007 wood would be murder.
 

tdarian

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Jun 25, 2008
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for me it comes down to choosing between better wood or tighter specs.

a 2015 historic with 2007 wood would be murder.

Agreed, but I think the 2007 wood would be the essential ingredient for me.
 

GastonG

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Jul 25, 2001
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1,397
and with "2007" brass thumbwheels :hank

The ABR-1 bridge sitting on brass thumbwheels = primary effect on the tone ! ("historically true" & "burstly" accurate!)

Gaston :salude
 

rockabilly69

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Jul 29, 2001
Messages
2,872
Funny, my 2014 R7 smokes my old 2007 R7. Not even close!!! Better neck finish work, better neck shape, better finish overall, tighter hardware, and WAY better tone!
 

ppgf

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you lost me with better.

let's not get too far fetched here. the original issue bursts were one step above student level guitars and part of their charm resides in their imperfections, which the finest replica cats honour in their builds.
Funny, my 2014 R7 smokes my old 2007 R7. Not even close!!! Better neck finish work, better neck shape, better finish overall, tighter hardware, and WAY better tone!
 

rockabilly69

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you lost me with better.

let's not get too far fetched here. the original issue bursts were one step above student level guitars and part of their charm resides in their imperfections, which the finest replica cats honour in their builds.

Well then let me elaborate. No matter what neck pickup I put into the old R7 the tone was mud, and before you ask I tried numerous pot and caps in it. Also their were dead spots on the neck of the guitar that no amount of fret dressing, nut cuttings and bridge adjustments could fix. When I say one guitar sounded way better I meant it, with NO exaggeration. The first time I played my 2014 I felt something good going on, and with a few turns of a screwdriver I had it setup and sounding GREAT! I have no need to swap any parts, and I love the shape of the neck, whereas the neck on my other R7 was a baseball bat!!! When I hear people rave about 2007 wood I just think they just happened to get a nice plank with the roll of the dice like any year. I have a 2006 R0 which I happen to love too, but the R7, a dud. I traded it into Guitar Center and laughed all the way home! Oh wait, I forgot to mention that there were file marks all over the binding of that R7, man was that guitar a doozy!

The 2014 Goldtop just plays and sounds the way I personally want a Les Paul to sound, I could never get comfortable with the old R7...

Here is the 2014 Goldtop a few days after I got it... https://soundcloud.com/daniel-weldon-1/angel
 
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ppgf

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as I said, you lost me with better.
Well then let me elaborate. No matter what neck pickup I put into the old R7 the tone was mud, and before you ask I tried numerous pot and caps in it. Also their were dead spots on the neck of the guitar that no amount of fret dressing, nut cuttings and bridge adjustments could fix. And I don't need a lesson in burst history, I'm 57 years old, I've been playing guitar for pretty much my whole life, have made my fulltime living at it for the last 15 years, and have played many great vintage examples of Gibson guitars. When I say one guitar sounded way better I meant it, with NO exaggeration. The first time I played my 2014 I felt something good going on, and with a few turns of a screwdriver I had it setup and sounding GREAT! I have no need to swap any parts, and I love the shape of the neck, whereas the neck on my other R7 was a baseball bat!!! When I hear people rave about 2007 wood I just think they just happened to get a nice plank with the roll of the dice like any year. I have a 2006 R0 which I happen to love too, but the R7, a dud. I traded it into Guitar Center and laughed all the way home! Oh wait, I forgot to mention that there were file marks all over the binding of that R7, man was that guitar a doozy!
 

ppgf

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Sep 11, 2014
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better is way too subjective for me. i am certain that we have entirely different aesthetics and approaches to the instrument. my default setting might be cumbersome and awkward for you.

also? re read my initial post. i was touting 2007 lumber and/with 2014 specs.

Sorry my explantion did nothing to clear that up:)
 

rockabilly69

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better is way too subjective for me. i am certain that we have entirely different aesthetics and approaches to the instrument. my default setting might be cumbersome and awkward for you.

also? re read my initial post. i was touting 2007 lumber and/with 2014 specs.

I realize that, and I feel that the wood on my newer R7 is lighter (8.1lbs) yet more resonant, whereas the other one at just under 9lbs was heavier and didn't vibrate like the newer one. And I got a nice straight grained stiff neck on the 2014.

But the word "better" for me refers to what sounds better to my ears, and what works better in getting the tone that I want.

As for our default settings, there's no question about that we probably each have a starting point, or better reference point, that we shoot for in evaluating an instrument. I've listened to some of your stuff, and respect your musicality, so it's obvious that you know what you like and how to get the best from it.

I've said this many times before, there's many way's to skin a cat!
 

Melodyman

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Aug 11, 2012
Messages
191
So which CC's are being built as True Historics now? Since I bought my Goldie thinking it was a true historic replica of a true historic original, I am left to wonder what I didnt get for my many thousands? Will the CS be offering us CC owners upgraded parts etc to bring our faux True Collectors Choice Historics up to True historic status? Truly Hystorical..
 

L.A.Man

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Apr 13, 2003
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1,143
So which CC's are being built as True Historics now? Since I bought my Goldie thinking it was a true historic replica of a true historic original, I am left to wonder what I didnt get for my many thousands? Will the CS be offering us CC owners upgraded parts etc to bring our faux True Collectors Choice Historics up to True historic status? Truly Hystorical..

SEIZE HIM!!!!! he is a non believer.

What you got for your thousands was a nice poke in the bum, and a wait till next time. Still Goldies are pretty cool so I digress. :biggrin:
 
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