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Eric's Bluesbreaker Marshall Combo: new pictures.

F-Hole

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It's interesting that you met someone who thinks that EC's amp was a regular JTM45.

Maybe I should expand. He's not just a "someone", for want of another way of putting it. At the time, he was a well known player around the London circuit. He was a very early Marshall adopter, I bought his block logo JTM45, which he bought with the proceeds of selling his white front JTM45. He also owned what was, very likely, the first 'burst in the UK which he bought in early '62. He's an extremely honest and methodical man, with a pin sharp memory, so I don't take what he told me lightly.

He'd seen Eric play a few times, and after a small club gig mid-week somewhere (I can't remember where he told me, but he remembered precisely), they chatted after the show. He talked to Eric principally because he was interested in his amp. His strong recollection is that the amp was an ordinary JTM45 in a 2x12 chassis with 652's. They also talked guitars, both being 'burst players, which was very rare back in the day.

So, this guy wasn't just a regular music fan. He was a working musician and guitar geek.......as he remains to this day.
 

mistersnappy

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Dude, I was three months old when all this went down.

Haha! Me too. I'm too young for the era that I'm obsessed with and too old for the kids. Oh, Well....

Thanks for speaking with your friend and relating the info! :salude:dude:
 

ourmaninthenorth

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...and the account is still strong... I'll hold that position until a similar eye witness account that refutes it comes along.

Anyone?
 

shakti

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Jan 17, 2007
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Standard JTM45 chassis, T652s...bingo! What my ears have told me all along (well, not that I could tell it was a non-trem chassis). But the part about it being a custom job. It all makes sense, sonically, visually...

Thanks for providing us with this info, Banker!
 

Wilko

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Maybe I should expand. He's not just a "someone", for want of another way of putting it. At the time, he was a well known player around the London circuit. He was a very early Marshall adopter, I bought his block logo JTM45, which he bought with the proceeds of selling his white front JTM45. He also owned what was, very likely, the first 'burst in the UK which he bought in early '62. He's an extremely honest and methodical man, with a pin sharp memory, so I don't take what he told me lightly.

He'd seen Eric play a few times, and after a small club gig mid-week somewhere (I can't remember where he told me, but he remembered precisely), they chatted after the show. He talked to Eric principally because he was interested in his amp. His strong recollection is that the amp was an ordinary JTM45 in a 2x12 chassis with 652's. They also talked guitars, both being 'burst players, which was very rare back in the day.

So, this guy wasn't just a regular music fan. He was a working musician and guitar geek.......as he remains to this day.

That's why I said it was interesting. Who are the people who made the reissues tremolo, and why do pics like the most popular one show a wider cutout?
 

shakti

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Jan 17, 2007
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Marshall preusmably made the reissue not knowing very much about the details of Clapton's amp, other than it being a JTM45-style 2x12 combo. All other 2x12 combos with a JTM45 chassis made back then were equipped with tremolo, so they probably assumed it would be a trem chassis.

Even with all error margins counted in, wouldn't it be possible to make a good estimate about the overall width of the amp from the Bluesbreaker session photo? In that photo the amp still has its script logo. IIRC those logos measure about 6" (I can check). To my eyes, that combo cab is no more than 70 cm wide, so only marginally more than a smallbox head cab, and the chassis cutout doesn't look any wider than on a smallbox head cab to my eyes.
 

F-Hole

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Who are the people who made the reissues tremolo.......

That would be Marshall, the same people who will write you a letter telling you that your Music Ground fake is genuine.

It's the amp equivalent of Gibson doing a run of "Beano" 'burst reissues.
 

jrock1

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Jul 3, 2004
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Of course it's possible that by March of '66, he may have blown the 15watt AlNiCos and was using the newer G12m 20 watt ceramics...unless someone can find a pic of the back of the amp at the time of Beano session we'll never know for sure. And one would sure like to have corroborating evidence that could confirm what John's friend recollects from 50 years ago per the non-trem variant and the AlNiCos...a second confirming source, so to speak...you know, the type of thing that the press used to do before reporting something as fact. But with all the time having passed, the light is flickering dimly on that possibility. So, from my perspective, John's friends recollections are really interesting and certainly worthy of consideration as it's the closest I've heard anyone come to "knowing"...but not enough in my mind to put a final nail in the coffin.
 

E-Rock

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Even with all error margins counted in, wouldn't it be possible to make a good estimate about the overall width of the amp from the Bluesbreaker session photo? In that photo the amp still has its script logo. IIRC those logos measure about 6" (I can check). To my eyes, that combo cab is no more than 70 cm wide, so only marginally more than a smallbox head cab, and the chassis cutout doesn't look any wider than on a smallbox head cab to my eyes.

Based on the "live" photo in the OP - and my ridiculous photo mockups upthread - it would appear that Clapton's amp was likely 30" x 24". This is the same size as a Style I combo...what are the dimensions of the "cutout" on a Style I to accommodate the trem chassis?
 

shakti

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I would rather use an "internal" measure from the Beano sessions photo for reference, such as the script logo. On first look, the proportions to me look like it could well be around 70 cm wide, just like an 18W 2x12 combo...but slightly taller, to allow for more clearance due to a larger, deeper/taller chassis with KT66s.
 

mistersnappy

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Of course it's possible that by March of '66, he may have blown the 15watt AlNiCos and was using the newer G12m 20 watt ceramics...unless someone can find a pic of the back of the amp at the time of Beano session we'll never know for sure. And one would sure like to have corroborating evidence that could confirm what John's friend recollects from 50 years ago per the non-trem variant and the AlNiCos...a second confirming source, so to speak...you know, the type of thing that the press used to do before reporting something as fact. But with all the time having passed, the light is flickering dimly on that possibility. So, from my perspective, John's friends recollections are really interesting and certainly worthy of consideration as it's the closest I've heard anyone come to "knowing"...but not enough in my mind to put a final nail in the coffin.

It might also be possible that having spoken to someone who became very famous just a year later might have *cemented* the facts in this man's memory.
 

ourmaninthenorth

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The eye witness account will do me. JTM45 in a "possibly" non stock 2 x 12.

Same time, same place next year Gents?

:biggrin:
 

becks bolero

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does a non-trem JTM45 sound significantly different than a trem JTM45?

ps if the amp had trem, wouldn't EC have used the trem at some point? he was an active tinkerer/experimenter I think
 

Wilko

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does a non-trem JTM45 sound significantly different than a trem JTM45?

ps if the amp had trem, wouldn't EC have used the trem at some point? he was an active tinkerer/experimenter I think

Tremolo models don't "seem" to have as much gain, though cranked that effect is minimalized.

And you bring up a great point. I think Clapton would have wanted trem, and used it a lot. He went full on Leslie!
 

E-Rock

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Dec 11, 2002
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Tremolo models don't "seem" to have as much gain, though cranked that effect is minimalized.

And you bring up a great point. I think Clapton would have wanted trem, and used it a lot. He went full on Leslie!

Well, EC's very next amp was a 45/100 Super Trem.

Blues-breaker.jpg
 

TM1

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Jun 27, 2003
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On mine, one I built about 10 years ago, when I pull the Trem circuit tube, the B+ voltage goes up. Not by alot, say maybe 20 volts d.c. More voltage doesn't normally mean more gain.. I can get more gain out of the front end by replacing the two 100K resistors on pins #1 & 6 with 220k's as that drops it down. So sometimes less voltage results in less clean headroom.
 
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