Bavarian Makeover initiated ! 2016 Gibson 1958 ES-335

59noob · May 24, 2016

The final color!

CAGinLA · May 25, 2016

Can hardly wait to see the finished product! Super jealous!

One of these days I will send my 58RI to HM.

marshall1987 · May 25, 2016

Outstanding Gibson ES 335 upgrade project and results so far. This guy is a pro. Tone report requested upon completion and delivery to customer. Thanks.:hank

59noob · May 28, 2016

Going to be a week or so for the nitro to dry before he does any further work. I'll be back with more!

capitalbear · Jun 3, 2016

59noob said:
Don't try this at home!

Installing vintage replica bushings made from iron that's over 70 years old.

....

You're not trying to say that iron that's "over 70 years old" would sound any different or better than "younger" iron, do you? :laugh2:

hogy · Jun 3, 2016

59noob said:
Fretboard radiused

For what it's worth, I've refretted (and measured) 100s of old Gibsons. The boards are 10" or close to it, not 12". The bridge is 12", that slight mis-match is a big part of the vintage Gibson feel.

59noob · Jun 4, 2016

barbarossa said:
For what it's worth, I've refretted (and measured) 100s of old Gibsons. The boards are 10" or close to it, not 12". The bridge is 12", that slight mis-match is a big part of the vintage Gibson feel.

That's good advice, and I'll have to admit I never thought about this. I'll be sure to check the radius on my '59 and '60 and see what radius their boards are, but one thing is for sure, the radius of the frets will not match the radius of the board, because I've noticed that all my vintage guitars (be it Gibson or Fender) seem to have lower fret height toward the fret ends compared to their centers, probably a result of how they leveled the frets at the factory back in the day?

59noob · Jun 15, 2016

Latest photos from Florian....

CAGinLA · Jun 15, 2016

Looking awesome!

geddy402 · Jun 16, 2016

This is great. I'm assuming Florian is in Europe?

59noob · Jun 16, 2016

capitalbear said:
You're not trying to say that iron that's "over 70 years old" would sound any different or better than "younger" iron, do you? :laugh2:

Not aged steel if that's what you mean! :## I meant steel produced in a different era, old stock steel, or salvaged (not recycled) steel, the stuff that was made 60 to 70 years ago.

I don't know if they sound any different, but I work on German car engines and gearboxes for a living, and when we work with steel gears that come from cars from the 50's and currently manufactured replacement parts for the very same cars, the material properties are different. If you took a sledgehammer to the gears doing a quick and dirty destructive test, you'll find that the old stuff stands up to blows much better and deform slightly, while the new stuff, same part mind you, shatters into pieces. I don't know for certain if the manufacturers would purposefully spec a different steel than was specified 65 years ago for the very same application, but perhaps the material available was just different. For certain from my experience the steel you get today off the shelf is different from the stuff you could get 70 years ago, this is my personal experience from a non scientific point of view, just observation. Whether it translates to better sound is even further out of my realm of expertise, but in the case of my guitar, the tailpiece studs where so loose from factory the the puller Florian used didn't even need a wrench to turn them out, just fingers, and I need better fitting bushings which Florian provided. Look at the (video of the) hammering in of the studs, with no marks whatsoever from the blows. It does seem to parallel what I experience when working on old steel. Not sure about sound though!

59noob · Jun 16, 2016

geddy402 said:
This is great. I'm assuming Florian is in Europe?

Yes, he's in Germany.

Progrocker111 · Jun 17, 2016

Cool work and very informative photos folks, thanks.

On the other side i am a bit shocked after i saw the sloppy Memphis original construction quality. :hmm

59noob · Jun 17, 2016

Progrocker111 said:
Cool work and very informative photos folks, thanks.

On the other side i am a bit shocked after i saw the sloppy Memphis original construction quality. :hmm

If I were in the US I would have returned that guitar. Everybody says the 2016 Memphis guitars are made really well. I think just had bad luck with this guitar. Strange, since this guitar has such a beautiful "Blonde" grade top and back. Three things about it stick out for me 1) the high E string almost hanging off the side of the fretboard (see the pics on my first post) , 2) The tailpiece bushings were so loose you pulled them out with a bolt and fingers, and 3) the neck fit - the bottom of the tenon was not in contact with the base of the mortise. Some others highlighted the ABR-1 thumbwheels being too high for a '58, which is true, but it seems that Memphis has never caught on to this detail and seems to be the average norm for all Memphis ES-335 guitars, so it didn't bother me much. It was no higher than many of my Nashville made R9 Historic Reissues which vary a lot - some low and some high. It's just a bonus now to be able to set it lower since I am getting a Makeover. Which brings me to another point that not many will realize - that not many Makeovers include a neck angle reset. Perhaps a neck removal and reset with hide glue, but no angle adjustment. Here, Florian is doing that for me, and I'm very happy about it.

Progrocker111 · Jun 17, 2016

59noob said:
If I were in the US I would have returned that guitar. Everybody says the 2016 Memphis guitars are made really well. I think just had bad luck with this guitar.

Your guitar is unfortunaltely not an exception. I have had two Memphis ES3x5s - 2013 50th ann. 63 ES355 and 2014 59 ES345. Both had many quality control imperfections such as bad sanded binding, rough drilled f-holes etc. They sounded both good though, altough i preferred MHS pickups on 345 over Burstbuckers on 63 50th ann. 335.

CAGinLA · Jun 17, 2016

59noob said:
If I were in the US I would have returned that guitar. Everybody says the 2016 Memphis guitars are made really well. I think just had bad luck with this guitar. Strange, since this guitar has such a beautiful "Blonde" grade top and back. Three things about it stick out for me 1) the high E string almost hanging off the side of the fretboard (see the pics on my first post) , 2) The tailpiece bushings were so loose you pulled them out with a bolt and fingers, and 3) the neck fit - the bottom of the tenon was not in contact with the base of the mortise. Some others highlighted the ABR-1 thumbwheels being too high for a '58, which is true, but it seems that Memphis has never caught on to this detail and seems to be the average norm for all Memphis ES-335 guitars, so it didn't bother me much. It was no higher than many of my Nashville made R9 Historic Reissues which vary a lot - some low and some high. It's just a bonus now to be able to set it lower since I am getting a Makeover. Which brings me to another point that not many will realize - that not many Makeovers include a neck angle reset. Perhaps a neck removal and reset with hide glue, but no angle adjustment. Here, Florian is doing that for me, and I'm very happy about it.

Aside from the thick finish, that neck angle thing is one issue that has me leaning towards a makeover on my 58RI (one of these days - can't afford it quite yet). My bridge and tailpiece are set fairly high.

marshall1987 · Jun 17, 2016

59noob said:
Not aged steel if that's what you mean! :## I meant steel produced in a different era, old stock steel, or salvaged (not recycled) steel, the stuff that was made 60 to 70 years ago.

I don't know if they sound any different, but I work on German car engines and gearboxes for a living, and when we work with steel gears that come from cars from the 50's and currently manufactured replacement parts for the very same cars, the material properties are different. If you took a sledgehammer to the gears doing a quick and dirty destructive test, you'll find that the old stuff stands up to blows much better and deform slightly, while the new stuff, same part mind you, shatters into pieces. I don't know for certain if the manufacturers would purposefully spec a different steel than was specified 65 years ago for the very same application, but perhaps the material available was just different. For certain from my experience the steel you get today off the shelf is different from the stuff you could get 70 years ago, this is my personal experience from a non scientific point of view, just observation. Whether it translates to better sound is even further out of my realm of expertise, but in the case of my guitar, the tailpiece studs where so loose from factory the the puller Florian used didn't even need a wrench to turn them out, just fingers, and I need better fitting bushings which Florian provided. Look at the (video of the) hammering in of the studs, with no marks whatsoever from the blows. It does seem to parallel what I experience when working on old steel. Not sure about sound though!

Could be you are working with inexpensive Chinese steel. About 50% of world steel production comes from China.

Today there are two major commercial processes for making steel, namely basic oxygen steelmaking, which has liquid pig-iron from the blast furnace and scrap steel as the main feed materials, and electric arc furnace (EAF) steelmaking, which uses scrap steel or direct reduced iron (DRI) as the main feed materials. Oxygen steelmaking is fuelled predominantly by the exothermic nature of the reactions inside the vessel where as in EAF steelmaking, electrical energy is used to melt the solid scrap and/or DRI materials. In recent times, EAF steelmaking technology has evolved closer to oxygen steelmaking as more chemical energy is introduced into the process.

geddy402 · Jun 18, 2016

I'm surprised to hear about all the quality issues. I have a 2015 59 335 and it's awesome. I asked Curt at HOG to hook me up with the best one out of the lot, and he did. Blonde and sounds like an acoustic unplugged. Wasn't a huge fan of the MHS' so I put a set of Rewinds in and haven't looked back. Hope you guys get your guitars issues worked out.

59noob · Jun 18, 2016

marshall1987 said:
Could be you are working with inexpensive Chinese steel. About 50% of world steel production comes from China.

Today there are two major commercial processes for making steel, namely basic oxygen steelmaking, which has liquid pig-iron from the blast furnace and scrap steel as the main feed materials, and electric arc furnace (EAF) steelmaking, which uses scrap steel or direct reduced iron (DRI) as the main feed materials. Oxygen steelmaking is fuelled predominantly by the exothermic nature of the reactions inside the vessel where as in EAF steelmaking, electrical energy is used to melt the solid scrap and/or DRI materials. In recent times, EAF steelmaking technology has evolved closer to oxygen steelmaking as more chemical energy is introduced into the process.

I wouldn't know, but I am pretty certain that 60 to 70 years ago, 50% of the world steel production didn't come from China.

CAGinLA · Jun 18, 2016

geddy402 said:
I'm surprised to hear about all the quality issues. I have a 2015 59 335 and it's awesome. I asked Curt at HOG to hook me up with the best one out of the lot, and he did. Blonde and sounds like an acoustic unplugged. Wasn't a huge fan of the MHS' so I put a set of Rewinds in and haven't looked back. Hope you guys get your guitars issues worked out.

Oh, well, my 58RI is a great guitar - it also sounds like an acoustic unplugged and the neck is just about perfect for my hand size and playing style - it's just not as great as it could be (I imagine that they put a little extra love into the 59RIs, as they are significantly more expensive than the 59's).

Bavarian Makeover initiated ! 2016 Gibson 1958 ES-335

New member

Active member

Well-known member

New member

Active member

Member

New member

New member

Active member

Member

New member

New member

Well-known member

New member

Well-known member

Active member

Well-known member

Member

New member

Active member