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How to run a 335 with varitone with only one amp

OKGuitar

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Joined
Jan 20, 2011
Messages
938
Having stuck my neck out about it not being a factory stop tail, I should add that anything is possible from Gibson during the 60's including a factory stop-wrong position or not. Rumble Seat wouldn't call it factory if they didn't believe it was that. They know their stuff. The fact that he stop and bridge might be nickel doesn't really tell us much. Both parts are easily changed and Gibson was using exclusively chrome parts by then. I might add that the body shape changed as did the size of the f holes in 68 and thats the earlier shape used from late 63 to 67. I'm wondering if it might not be a 68 at all but perhaps a factory stop from 63-early 65 with a later neck. When a guitar went back to Gibson for a re-neck, they often put new parts on it which would explain the witch hat knobs. It would also explain the low inlay on the headstock (late 66 and later) and the later narrow bevel guard. The special order theory is also in play given that it's a Varitone equipped 335. It certainly is possible that its a specially ordered 335-ordered with a stop tail and a Varitone and they simply placed the stop tail a little lower than they would have in 64. I would be interested in having a look at the neck pickup rout and the back of the headstock. I love a good mystery.
 

Tom Wittrock

Les Paul Forum Co-Owner
Joined
Aug 2, 2001
Messages
42,567
It would be nice if Gibson made the old logs and records available on line. :ganz
 

DoctorDox

Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2015
Messages
47
Having stuck my neck out about it not being a factory stop tail, I should add that anything is possible from Gibson during the 60's including a factory stop-wrong position or not. Rumble Seat wouldn't call it factory if they didn't believe it was that. They know their stuff. The fact that he stop and bridge might be nickel doesn't really tell us much. Both parts are easily changed and Gibson was using exclusively chrome parts by then. I might add that the body shape changed as did the size of the f holes in 68 and thats the earlier shape used from late 63 to 67. I'm wondering if it might not be a 68 at all but perhaps a factory stop from 63-early 65 with a later neck. When a guitar went back to Gibson for a re-neck, they often put new parts on it which would explain the witch hat knobs. It would also explain the low inlay on the headstock (late 66 and later) and the later narrow bevel guard. The special order theory is also in play given that it's a Varitone equipped 335. It certainly is possible that its a specially ordered 335-ordered with a stop tail and a Varitone and they simply placed the stop tail a little lower than they would have in 64. I would be interested in having a look at the neck pickup rout and the back of the headstock. I love a good mystery.

Screenshot_20170914-074231.png.html
Screenshot_20170914-074231.png.html

Thats where im at, I trust Rumbleseat. I doubt theyd make shit up ya know? So im assuming it is what it is, but as soon as I get it ill post better pictures of everything and we can discuss. Im going to spend a lot of hours with this guitar, and we can solve this mystery! I love guitar mysteries. Gibson in the 60s, anything is possible thats for sure. Yeah I know my 335 history well these days, one day I want a mickey mouse ear 335 but that price is a bit high for me at the moment.

If you look at the back of this guitar, you can see the neck looks darker than the body, but ive seen others from that era that look similar. heres a picture of the back

DLC9724.jpg

10155531236831263
 

Wally

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 27, 2003
Messages
3,535
Does that neck width at the nut look a bit wide for a '68? Is that serial number by chance in the lower 500,000 range?
Whatever it is, I like the look of the guitar.
Re: B.B. King and an eEs-335.....

I was under the impression that B.B. King played ES-355 guitars from the late '50's or early '60's until Gibson started building his signature guitars.??? I have seen early pics of him with a Telecaster, then a GT L.P. From then on, it was always a 355, ime.
AS for Live at The Regal, I believe it was his ES-355. That is the guitar in the pic on the front of the album.

From this article....http://jasobrecht.com/b-b-king-live-at-the-regal/

"Without missing a beat, King and his band segue from “Sweet Little Angel” into another powerhouse blues, “It’s My Own Fault.” His Gibson ES-355 SV, at the time the company’s top semi-hollowbody model, sported stereo electronics and a Vari-tone. With a flick of the switch, King dials in a tougher, more trebly sound for his solo flourishes. “I usually go through the stereo circuitry, with both pickups working against each other,” King explained. “With just a quick shift of the hand I can set the volume or change the tone. To tell you the truth, I’m not even sure which pickup does what. I just put them both on and use my ear.” Towels or wadded paper stuffed through the guitar’s soundholes eliminate feedback."

This supports what I see in a lot of King's playing...he liked what the two pickups together did.
I find it interesting that Gibson is using OOP pickups in a lot of the modern regular production L.P. and 335 guitars.
 

Tom Wittrock

Les Paul Forum Co-Owner
Joined
Aug 2, 2001
Messages
42,567
Talked to a friend yesterday who has a 1968 ES-335 with a factory stop tailpiece.
It also has factory P-90s. :ganz
 

DoctorDox

Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2015
Messages
47
Well, sorry for the slow update. But I sent it back. It was just a trapeze tailpiece, cut off to look like nothing was there. The stop tailpiece was clearly too far back, which we all spotted. But overall, the guitar wasnt awful, just too much money for a guitar with holes in the top of it, and without original pickup covers. Also this guitar was grovered at one point. Waaaaay too expensive for me, 3900, should be more like 2500. Thats the most id pay for this guitar.

Im very disappointed that Rumbleseat would sell something as factory, and not clearly state that the guitar was grovered, had new covers on the pickups, aftermarket bridge. Im willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, but man if youve ever been around even a few 335's, one look at the bottom strap button will tell you if its factory or not. It was cut very smoothly and nice. But not even close to factory. Good player, but like I said too much for this guy. Im beginning my saving for a 345 with PAF's

Also the bridge is some german made after market thing. No thanks. Below is a picture of the bridge, and a picture of both tail pieces, one on the left is my all bone stock 73 335, and the right is the guitar in question

ehdlfz2sqflqzx4zwigq.jpg


giedsvwciqvljlqcbrg9.jpg
 
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GuitarMikey

Active member
Joined
Mar 1, 2013
Messages
910
I'll add that one to my list of dealers not to trust. Sorry it didn't work out for you, but thanks for the heads up.
 

DoctorDox

Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2015
Messages
47
I'll add that one to my list of dealers not to trust. Sorry it didn't work out for you, but thanks for the heads up.
Im genuinely surprised, I dont like their picture style either. They take nice looking photos of the guitars, but like the headstock on that 335 was not at all accurately portrayed. looked beat up. The guitar was a nice guitar, looked pretty like the picture but they dont take photos like other dealers.

For me, lesson learned. Go to stores to buy guitars and never order anything online
 

peterV

New member
Joined
Aug 20, 2016
Messages
27
To me if this guitar was truly believed to be a factory stop-tail, wouldn't it have been more expensive? Even with all the inherent "late sixties" specs, stereo/varitone(now mono-ed), grovers added and subtracted, covers off etc. If they thought it was a legit factory stop-tail guitar, wouldn't they ask more like 9-10k for it? Is this one of those cases where they expected us as the consumer to know what it is and what it isn't based on the first pic? I am not trying to say anyone on either side is lying, just that maybe there was some kind of misunderstanding here. I find it so difficult to believe that Rumbleseat thought the tailpiece was anything but aftermarket. I would be interested to hear what OK Guitars would have asked for this, had the stop tail have been factory.
 

DoctorDox

Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2015
Messages
47
To me if this guitar was truly believed to be a factory stop-tail, wouldn't it have been more expensive? Even with all the inherent "late sixties" specs, stereo/varitone(now mono-ed), grovers added and subtracted, covers off etc. If they thought it was a legit factory stop-tail guitar, wouldn't they ask more like 9-10k for it? Is this one of those cases where they expected us as the consumer to know what it is and what it isn't based on the first pic? I am not trying to say anyone on either side is lying, just that maybe there was some kind of misunderstanding here. I find it so difficult to believe that Rumbleseat thought the tailpiece was anything but aftermarket. I would be interested to hear what OK Guitars would have asked for this, had the stop tail have been factory.
I agree whole heartedly. Thats why I jumped on it, and figured whatever I can always return it. I dont think its all like a RUMBLESEAT MARKETED IT AS A STOPTAIL AND IT WASNT by any means, but I did ask the guy on the phone if it was a factory varitone and non factory stop tail, and he said the custom shop guys said it was. I tend to not belive that for a second. Im not even trying to sling shit or anything like that at all. Its disappointing that they didnt list stuff tho, like the fact that it was grovered, factory stop tail, never listed that it wasnt an original bridge or that the pickup covers were aftermarket. Id buy from them again, but like any shop, I wont buy online again. Even for the 3900 price, for a guitar with holes in the top of it? nahhhh too much haha

As far as the varitone, it wasnt even active to my knowledge, dont those click into each position? this thing just felt like a petentiometer spinning in place. I didnt bother to plug it in, because the second I opened the guitar I knew I wasnt keeping it. once I took the bridge off as well, and saw it say made in germany I was just like, wow.

Here is the exact quote when I asked if it was all original and factory stop tailpiece from reverb messages, which was reconfirmed on the phone like I said above.

"changed tuners no extra holes and yes original stoptail piece"
 

peterV

New member
Joined
Aug 20, 2016
Messages
27
I agree whole heartedly. Thats why I jumped on it, and figured whatever I can always return it. I dont think its all like a RUMBLESEAT MARKETED IT AS A STOPTAIL AND IT WASNT by any means, but I did ask the guy on the phone if it was a factory varitone and non factory stop tail, and he said the custom shop guys said it was. I tend to not belive that for a second. Im not even trying to sling shit or anything like that at all. Its disappointing that they didnt list stuff tho, like the fact that it was grovered, factory stop tail, never listed that it wasnt an original bridge or that the pickup covers were aftermarket. Id buy from them again, but like any shop, I wont buy online again. Even for the 3900 price, for a guitar with holes in the top of it? nahhhh too much haha

As far as the varitone, it wasnt even active to my knowledge, dont those click into each position? this thing just felt like a petentiometer spinning in place. I didnt bother to plug it in, because the second I opened the guitar I knew I wasnt keeping it. once I took the bridge off as well, and saw it say made in germany I was just like, wow.

Here is the exact quote when I asked if it was all original and factory stop tailpiece from reverb messages, which was reconfirmed on the phone like I said above.

"changed tuners no extra holes and yes original stoptail piece"


So you asked if the stoptail was "non-factory" and the guy on the phone said yes but the guy on reverb said it was original? Strange they would say that. If they said it was "original", then they are selling it as original. Whomever removed the vari-tone probably put a dummy pot in the vari-tone hole to take up space. So there was no choke or vari-tone switch either? I agree 100 percent about their pictures or lack thereof. Would they have given more pics if you had asked?
 
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peterV

New member
Joined
Aug 20, 2016
Messages
27
Talked to a friend yesterday who has a 1968 ES-335 with a factory stop tailpiece.
It also has factory P-90s. :ganz


It would be interesting to see where the stop-tail on this guitar is located compared to the OP's guitar or ex-guitar.
 

DoctorDox

Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2015
Messages
47
So you asked if the stoptail was "non-factory" and the guy on the phone said yes but the guy on reverb said it was original? Strange they would say that. If they said it was "original", then they are selling it as original. Whomever removed the vari-tone probably put a dummy pot in the vari-tone hole to take up space. So there was no choke or vari-tone switch either? I agree 100 percent about their pictures or lack thereof. Would they have given more pics if you had asked?

They both told me it was factory stop tail. Guy on the phone said custom shop people came and confirmed it.

The varitone just felt like a pot, no clicks. I assumed the actual varitone was disconnectred, but as i said, i never plugged it in.
 
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