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more questions on my ES-345

Doc W

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Aug 16, 2010
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I still have a few oddball questions with regard to my 1961 ES-345. First, I read somewhere that the 1961 ES-345 was the only one with the parallelogram in the first fret, but looking around the web, I found several 1961's which did not have that marker in the first fret. So what is the answer? Which ES models had the parallelogram in the first fret?

Second question. If I look really closely at the neck, it is possible to see (but barely), small, round wooden plugs between the two halves of the parallelograms. It looks like the fretboard was intended to be a dot neck, but that it just got repurposed in the factory for the parallelograms. I don't seem to be allowed to post attachments, unfortunately, or I would send a photo.
 

brandtkronholm

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Some '61s have the first fret inlay and some don't.

The idea that it was a dot neck repurposed to a double parallelogram neck is new to me, but certainly not out of the realm of possibility.
 

Doc W

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Some '61s have the first fret inlay and some don't. I think a very small amount of some '62s have it too.

The idea that it was a dot neck repurposed to a double parallelogram neck is new to me, but certainly not out of the realm of possibility.

I am definitely not claiming that it was a dot fingerboard converted. It was the only way I could explain it with a photo, a picture being worth a thousand words and all that.
 

AA00475Bassman

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Really learn on this Forum , What lengths Gibson will go to get the most milk from the cow!
 

brandtkronholm

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So the consensus is that this is a gibson factory job back in 61?

Looks like it! Just can't figure out why.

No consensus just yet, so let's hold on for a second.
It probably is all factory, but do you have any more pictures of this that you can post for us? (I feel like you may have posted them in another thread...maybe?)
The fretboard might not be the only odd/unique feature of the guitar.

Was this guitar re-fretted? I don't see binding nibs but I do see healthy upper register frets.
 

Doc W

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No consensus just yet, so let's hold on for a second.
It probably is all factory, but do you have any more pictures of this that you can post for us? (I feel like you may have posted them in another thread...maybe?)
The fretboard might not be the only odd/unique feature of the guitar.

Was this guitar re-fretted? I don't see binding nibs but I do see healthy upper register frets.

That's a good question. I don't think so. I have owned the guitar for 40 years and I don't recall a refret, but I am an old guy who remembers some things and not others. I am the kind of guy who remembers the horsepower of the Bismarck, but can't find my socks 6 mornings out of 7. And forty years is a long time.

I don't think that there is anything truly unusual about this guitar, other this weird circular "fill" in the fret board. It had gold grovers added before I got it. I think that it had a factory Bigsby and I think that I had it removed. In any case, I still have a gold Bigsby in a box somewhere (I just came across it a few months ago). It had no pickup covers when I got it but I put those nickel-plated replacements on soon after. Oddly enough, I cannot remember what colour the bobbins are. Both pickups are PAF's. For most of it's life with me, I never used the middle position because it seemed to have much less volume than other two positions. About 5 years ago (I think), a guitar tech I know solved that problem by reversing one of the magnets. It was like having a brand new guitar after that. Instant BB King (minus the talent). He said that that the pickups had not been opened before he reversed the magnet.

The volume on the treble pickup is a master volume but I just assumed that the guy who previously owned it had that done. I am going to change that.

The only other thing that comes to mind is that the label inside says "ES-345 TD" and not "TDC" (even though the guitar is clearly cherry).

I would be happy to send more photos to someone who can post them for me. I don't seem to have that option. Let me know what you want to see and I will snap a few/

I appreciate the interest and the questions. It isn't much of a collectible, but it is a helluva player.
 

JimR56

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Oct 20, 2012
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I am the kind of guy who remembers the horsepower of the Bismarck, but can't find my socks 6 mornings out of 7.
:laugh2: Glad I'm not the only one.

Interesting about that fretboard. I wonder if it could have been a custom order where the customer had a change of mind just before or after the guitar was delivered. Anyway, I think we've all seen the occasional oddballs such as 330's and 335's with parallellograms, 345's and 355's with dots, etc.

The absence of a "C" in the model designation on a cherry guitar doesn't surprise me in the least. Gibson were inconsistent when it came to those kinds of label details. I have a 1966 L5 (venetian cutaway, natural finish) that was custom-ordered with a Charlie Christian pickup. The label just says "L5N".
 

GuitarMikey

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Mar 1, 2013
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Here's a few more pics of the guitar in question...






<a href="https://imgur.com/HsR4eEe"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/HsR4eEe.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>
 

brandtkronholm

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That's a fine looking ES345 indeed!

The pictures don't give me any new info or insight.

That you've owned it for 40 years just reminds us about the nature of vintage guitars: i.e., this one had nearly 20 years on earth before it found a home with you.
It even made it through the '70s with only a few modifications! (My '59 merely obtained Schaller tuners sometime in the '70s...)

Determining the "originality" or the degree of modifications would have to be done by an in-hand examination by a proper expert.

Some minor thoughts: As it appears to be a 1961, the bobbins are almost certainly double black. The pickup covers on 345s were gold. (The mix of nickel and gold hardware looks a little funny, but it's a matter of taste!) The pick guard looks huge to me...they're all different, but I've not seen one that sticks out so much. It's probably the picture angles playing tricks on me. Lastly, I like the look of the Grovers!
 

VamboRool

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Do all the frets with position markers have the fill in? Can you see any fill ins at the 12th fret?
 

Doc W

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Do all the frets with position markers have the fill in? Can you see any fill ins at the 12th fret?

The first fret has a fret marker, but no fill. All of the other frets that normally have markers have the fill, except 12th. With regard to the 12th fret - and I will try to get a photo of this - there is a black dot, much smaller than the fills at the other frets. It doesn't look like the fills at the other frets and in fact it doesn't even look like a fill. I don't know what it is. I will get a photo soon.
 
Last edited:

Strings Jr.

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The first fret has a fret marker, but no fill. All of the other frets that normally have markers have the fill, except 12th. With regard to the 12th fret - and I will try to get a photo of this - there is a black dot, much smaller than the fills at the other frets. It doesn't look like the fills at the other frets and in fact it doesn't even look like a fill. I don't know what it is. I will get a photo soon.
If it was a re-purposed dot fingerboard, it wouldn't have had a dot at the first fret.
Also, the 12th fret would not have a dot in the center.
 

VamboRool

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Strings Jr-That's what I was thinking, no dot at the first fret and then it looks like the dot's diameter is larger than the parallelogram is wide so you should see four parts of the two fill in dots at the 12th fret if it was a re-purposed board.
 
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