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Motorcycles

Zentar

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Oct 1, 2011
Messages
830
I disagree. I learned on the road almost 40 years ago and have never ridden a dirt bike.

how is France now for touring? I learned to ride about when you did. Here in South Carolina there is three times as much traffic today as in 1973. The big menace today is people operating cars while talking on cell fones. I think a motorcyclist needs far more skill today to learn to ride than when I learned as a kid. Even if you are experienced it is dangerous to ride in metropolitan areas today.
 

mdubya

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Mar 31, 2010
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1,020
I disagree. I learned on the road almost 40 years ago and have never ridden a dirt bike.

You would be a better, safer, more in control rider if you learned to ride in the dirt. It is never too late. The dirt teaches you how to control the moto while it is on the move due to low traction.
 

Dimitri92

Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2009
Messages
48
Lots of fine advice here. Just do it! Its a life changing thing, I love every minute of it. Sidenote; I find it interesting that so many people are using the word 'dangerous'. The whole dirtbike thing is not something we really do here in the netherlands. Then again, I've learned to ride from an instructor who really knows his stuff. From day one taking lessons I learned that those automobile drivers are unpredictable. I learned little tricks like using reflection in/on(?) cars to see more etc. Look ahead, always look ahead, anticipate. If you learn to ride like that you will be just fine.


*The whole anticipating/looking ahead seems far gone with most car drivers...
 

mdubya

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Mar 31, 2010
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1,020
Lots of fine advice here. Just do it! It's a life changing thing, I love every minute of it. Sidenote; I find it interesting that so many people are using the word 'dangerous'. The whole dirtbike thing is not something we really do here in the netherlands. Then again, I've learned to ride from an instructor who really knows his stuff. From day one taking lessons I learned that those automobile drivers are unpredictable. I learned little tricks like using reflection in/on(?) cars to see more etc. Look ahead, always look ahead, anticipate. If you learn to ride like that you will be just fine.


*The whole anticipating/looking ahead seems far gone with most car drivers...


I think things are a bit different in Europe.

I have ridden quite a bit in Italy. Most Americans would lose their minds at the way things work riding and driving in Italy, anyway. But I interacted with people from all over Europe when I was in Italy.

But I saw some fatal accidents there, too. The one that sticks in my mind was a car turning left in front of an SV 650, no other traffic on the road.

My buddy was riding in the Moto Giro on a vintage Aermacchi. He broke his wrist due to a car pulling out in front of him. And that was an organized rally with escorts and spotters and chase vehicles and everything else.

And let's not forget Nicky Hayden, even though he was on a bicycle.
 

hoss

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Aug 1, 2004
Messages
6,748
You are right, but Hayden had earphones on and ran a stop sign.
 

LyonAudio

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Aug 3, 2018
Messages
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You would be a better, safer, more in control rider if you learned to ride in the dirt. It is never too late. The dirt teaches you how to control the moto while it is on the move due to low traction.

I have been hearing the same "learn to ride on dirt" mantra for decades and as far as I'm concerned it's nonsense.
It means an awful lot of extra cost and hassle.
You have to have the bike, you have to have a pick-up or whatever to get it from your home to "the dirt" and you are putting off some excellent riding on roads for, by someone's reckoning, a year.
No thanks.
I learned to ride on the road and I know many fine riders that did the same, but then I learned to ride a motorcycle so that I would have a vehicle for daily transportation, not just for weekend fun.
Your mileage may, of course, vary.
 

hoss

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Aug 1, 2004
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6,748
No need for a pickup. You can take a light street legal offroad bike and ride on dirt roads. Nobody needs to be a Motocross crack.
 

LyonAudio

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Aug 3, 2018
Messages
9
No need for a pickup. You can take a light street legal offroad bike and ride on dirt roads.
And if you're lucky enough to live somewhere where all of the roads are paved?
Yours seems to be a mostly a rural scenario.
IMO if you're going to ride the road, start on the road.
 

MikeScalf

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Oct 15, 2006
Messages
1,307
Lots of great advice on here. Some more of an opinion than others.

As a daily rider, I'll throw in my advice and tell you, they are my opinions. I'm not a certified trainer, just someone who can't imagine life without riding.

Quick background. I never rode dirt bikes. Wish I had, as I had friends who had them, but I never did. I rode BMX.

I bought my first bike in 1994. It was a 2 year old Suzuki Katana 600. The day I test rode this bike, was the first time I had ever ridden a motorcycle. I don't recommend that. I did fine, and didn't wreck it, but it still wasn't a smart idea IMO.

I rode that bike for 3 years, and yes I laid it down about 4 months after I bought it. Tried to make a turn into a parking lot at the last second. Saw tots of pea gravel. I chose to go strait into a yard and ended up going down. It was much softer than the asphalt would have been. LOL
That was COMPLETELY my fault. Rider error. Inexperience.

I actually owned 2 other bikes after that one. 1980 GS850L and a 1988 Harley Davidson 1200 Sportster.

I had the Sportster until early 2001. My only son was 4 months old and I had 3 close calls in one week. I thought about him growing up without knowing his dad and sold the bike.

What I had decided was , the joy I got from riding was outweighed by the fear of what could happen to me.

That was when I dove into music again after quitting after high school.

I purchased my first bike in almost 14 years in 2015. A Honda Shadow 750. I was instantly taken back by the feeling I got from riding. It was incredible. Better than any feeling I got playing on stage. Almost more than sex. (almost...LOL)

I had the Honda for only a few months before I upgraded to a Yamaha 1100.

I joined a riding club and made some great friends.

I currently am riding a 2014 Harley Davidson Electra Glide Ultra Limited. I purchased it this February and have put over 15K miles on it. I rode it to Indiana and back in July. that was 2500 miles along.

I ride year round here in Texas. I have a truck I drive sometimes, when I need to. I've only put 2K miles on it in the last 3 years.

That all being said, the best advice I can give is.

1. Take a beginner riding course to get your licence. The knowledge is invaluable.
2. After 6 months to a year (depending on how much you ride) take an Intermediate course. It will help advance and hone your riding skills.
3. NEVER STOP LEARNING. Most riders with 20+ years of riding experience only really have 1 year of experience, repeated 20 times.
4. Get a bike that fits YOU and what kind of riding you want to do. (more than one bike is not only acceptable, it's recommended...LOL)

The one thought I keep in my mind, and I always tell other riders.

When the fear of what can happen to you on a bike, overshadows the joy you get from riding.....you should get off the bike.

I ride around Houston, TX. daily. I feel safer on a bike than in a cage. It's more maneuverable and I have a field of vision that you just can't get in a car.

Everyone talks about the other guy, but in the USA, almost 60% of fatal motorcycle accident are single vehicle accidents. and of those , most are in curves.

Riders riding beyond their skill level.

Remember this advice I was told when I drove big rigs for a living. You can take curves too slow your whole life, but you might only get one chance to take one too fast.

Riding motorcycles can be life changing, but only you can decide if it's in a good way, or a bad way.

Enjoy the wind therapy! :salude

BTW, my bike. If the pic shows. :biggrin:
photo.php
 

sharky

Active member
Joined
Jan 25, 2012
Messages
1,267
IMO if you're going to ride the road, start on the road.


No, loud and clear. I ride for 42 years now, mostly road these days, but was competing Motocrosser in my hay days. Having to control a bike on a slippery track, gravel, sand etc. teaches you way more about the physics of riding in much shorter time with less risk of injuries. Doesn't mean you have to ride competitions or try to be fast. It's all about action/reaction and the automation of movements and reactions.

Never heard someone saying anything else, till today.

Taking courses to improve ones riding is always a good advice and helps to live longer. What may very likely help to improve the own skills is the theoretical understanding of what happens while riding a bike. Teaches to be more focused on the road without having to think about the riding itself too much.

But this is of course subject to personal preferation and OMMV.
 
Last edited:

LyonAudio

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Aug 3, 2018
Messages
9
No, loud and clear. I ride for 42 years now, mostly road these days, but was competing Motocrosser in my hay days. Having to control a bike on a slippery track, gravel, sand etc. teaches you way more about the physics of riding in much shorter time with less risk of injuries. Doesn't mean you have to ride competitions or try to be fast. It's all about action/reaction and the automation of movements and reactions.

Never heard someone saying anything else, till today.

Maybe you're spending too much of your time with motocrossers...:rofl
 

Billy Porter

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Joined
Mar 16, 2005
Messages
1,129
I can't comment on the off-road argument but can comment on my own experience.


I decided to return to Motorcycling on my 50th Birthday. Costed out the bike I wanted plus all the gear etc. About 3months before my birthday my mother fell over and broke her hip, As she lay there being given Morphine etc I decided that I did not wish to put my wife and children though the same situation so bought a Tele instead and joined a mates band.


10 years later I've still got the Tele and still play in the band.


In the last year I've had a Deer jump over a hedge in the dark and didn't have time to stop. 1 dead deer and damage to car. I've also had someone slide into my car damaging it and someone 'rolling' into the back of my car who was probably on his mobile phone . Fortunately these all happened with no personal harm to myself. I've also had a colleagues involved in a crash recently due to the other party using her mobile phone whilst driving.


I'd love to return to motorcycling but just don't trust other drivers and don't wish to put my family though the consequences of an accident.
 

Zentar

New member
Joined
Oct 1, 2011
Messages
830
Billy I see exactly what you are saying.

However... when you ride a motorcycle you use a different skill set. You have to be on guard at a much higher level than you do when driving a car. You have to anticipate.
For example: is that car sitting at that stop sign going to pull out in front of me? That car in the opposing lane at an intersection: is he going to turn left in front of me? Does he see me? Etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.

I've ridden with my brights on since the 70s. I use a 55/100 watt headlight bulb. Most headlight bulbs are 55/60 watt.
 

AA00475Bassman

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Joined
Apr 26, 2016
Messages
3,769
Billy I see exactly what you are saying.

However... when you ride a motorcycle you use a different skill set. You have to be on guard at a much higher level than you do when driving a car. You have to anticipate.
For example: is that car sitting at that stop sign going to pull out in front of me? That car in the opposing lane at an intersection: is he going to turn left in front of me? Does he see me? Etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.

I've ridden with my brights on since the 70s. I use a 55/100 watt headlight bulb. Most headlight bulbs are 55/60 watt.

This is how you have to be when riding on public roadways , best info on this thread !
 

Dimitri92

Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2009
Messages
48
I think things are a bit different in Europe.

I have ridden quite a bit in Italy. Most Americans would lose their minds at the way things work riding and driving in Italy, anyway. But I interacted with people from all over Europe when I was in Italy.

But I saw some fatal accidents there, too. The one that sticks in my mind was a car turning left in front of an SV 650, no other traffic on the road.

My buddy was riding in the Moto Giro on a vintage Aermacchi. He broke his wrist due to a car pulling out in front of him. And that was an organized rally with escorts and spotters and chase vehicles and everything else.

And let's not forget Nicky Hayden, even though he was on a bicycle.


I mainly ride in the Netherlands where I live. Here we don't have those huge plains of land where your alone on a road. I think that does make a big difference, because you interact with other people in traffic a lot more. Which makes you a better driver all around in my opinion.

'Most Americans would lose their minds at the way things work riding and driving in Italy,'
Do you see this as a good or a bad thing, I can't make that up from your comment.

Yes more down south in europe people take traffic rules a lot more loose than where I come from. But I've been there quite a lot on 2 wheels. Again, for me a lot has to do with looking ahead and anticipating. But yes I agree, it can be dangerous, so can crossing the street be. My response to the thread starter was to show a different experience because a lot of fatal accident stories are being told, which can sound pretty discouraging.


#edit; Are you guys in the states required to take lessons and an exam for your motorcycle license? Here we do, and thats where you learn for example the all important 'anticipating'. I think that also has a lot to do with how my response differs from some.
 

mdubya

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Mar 31, 2010
Messages
1,020
I mainly ride in the Netherlands where I live. Here we don't have those huge plains of land where your alone on a road. I think that does make a big difference, because you interact with other people in traffic a lot more. Which makes you a better driver all around in my opinion.

'Most Americans would lose their minds at the way things work riding and driving in Italy,'
Do you see this as a good or a bad thing, I can't make that up from your comment.

Yes more down south in europe people take traffic rules a lot more loose than where I come from. But I've been there quite a lot on 2 wheels. Again, for me a lot has to do with looking ahead and anticipating. But yes I agree, it can be dangerous, so can crossing the street be. My response to the thread starter was to show a different experience because a lot of fatal accident stories are being told, which can sound pretty discouraging.


#edit; Are you guys in the states required to take lessons and an exam for your motorcycle license? Here we do, and that's where you learn for example the all important 'anticipating'. I think that also has a lot to do with how my response differs from some.


I think, in general, European countries have a higher standard of requirements to earn (and keep) a license, for cars or moto. In the U.S., if you are an adult (18 years old) and can pass the test, no training is required. I would say many DO get training to earn their license (car or moto), but it is only required if you are under 18.

And in the U.S. you can buy and ride a superbike or full size cruiser, legally, with zero experience. No restrictions whatsoever.

My example of riding in Italy was two sided. In my experience, those drivers were significantly more capable, better trained, and more aware of the "Rules of the Road." Most Americans wouldn't have been able to handle the idea of using the left lane only for passing, or yielding to faster moving traffic, even on two lane roads. But they had accidents, too. And they were every bit as bad as the ones caused by the mindless, selfish, poorly trained, distracted drivers that are the norm in the U.S.

I would rather ride or drive in Europe where the riders and drivers are better trained and more aware of the rules of the road than in the U.S. where the drivers are poorly trained and have little or no concern with anyone else on the road, besides themselves.

That said, it has been 16 years since I rode there. Things may have changed for the worse.


***************


And regarding learning to ride in the dirt; it is not required, but you will have a significantly higher level of riding skill for doing so. No exceptions.
 

Billy Porter

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Mar 16, 2005
Messages
1,129
I did mention that I was thinking of 'returning' to motorcycling so am well aware of the rules and benefits of motorcycling such as awareness and anticipation, foreseeing potential dangers etc.. Those rules have served me well through decades of car driving and have only had 2 crashes in 42 years which neither was my fault. Motorcycling gives you a far greater understanding of the road surface such as how much grip there is and avoiding white lines, manhole covers etc and I believe this has made me a better and safer driver than those who never rode motorcycles. The OP however should be open to the inherent dangers of living outside of the tin box


I love motorbikes and motorcycling but for me I do not trust the concentration levels of other drivers nowadays, Too many distractions not only with phones but Sat Navs, in car entertainment systems etc.
 
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