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could YOU ever consider choosing a Tokai Love Rock LS320 in preference to a Historic

greg-delta

Les Paul Froum Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2020
Messages
47
megalomania is real.

:doh

here, let me help ya with that

meg·a·lo·ma·ni·a


obsession with the exercise of power, especially in the domination of others.


delusion about one's own power or importance (typically as a symptom of manic or paranoid disorder).
 

El Gringo

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 8, 2015
Messages
5,657
The primary, probably the only reason, is because I don't own any tokais at the moment. I've got an edwards and a greco and another Greco on the way

Though I don't think you'd like my tone, for 2 main reasons. One, it's probably it bit too modernist for most on this forum. not that it's good or bad, it's just this forum has a very traditionalist bent to it, and high distortion guitars with synthesizers and drum machines is probably like poison to most here. But the 2nd reason is you seem to have a big chip on your shoulder, which will likely color your opinion of my music

I don't know the rules on posting links to personal music here, but I gladly will post it in the next response here if it's allowed....i'm on spotify or bandcamp if thats more to your liking




US les paul fans? I'm a les paul fan too guy, I just prefer the replicas to Gibsons...time and time again the japanese replicas have proven their worth...Gibsons have yet to live up to the hype I hear/read about them, or performed well enough to justify their massive price tags.

Dead wrong as I play thru two high gain Marshall 2555X into two 2551 AV cabs loaded with Celestion Vintage 30's speakers . Not exactly vintage tone territory . More like modern high gain territory . You can't lump everyone into one category . One size does not fit all on the Les Paul Forum .
 

El Gringo

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 8, 2015
Messages
5,657
some of us have to work for a living.

Buying gibsons is a gamble for me, a pricey one. not worth it for me

Me to , as I have to get up every morning and drag my butt to work and earn a living , and it took a while for me to save up to be able to afford what makes me happy . Why gripe and rain on others parade ? Is this what does it for you ? Versus making music and getting fulfilled and satisfied ? I started playing in the 70's and my very first electric was a Gibson Les Paul Custom that cost me $300 bucks and it is a Norlin era Gibson that is boat anchor heavy and guess what I love it and still have it and play the snot out of it along with all of the other Les Paul's in my herd . I was spoiled as a youngster by that thick luscious tone and sustain for days . That was playing thru a Silverface Fender Twin Reverb- the king of clean amps . Us kids used Big Muffs for distortion , besides trying to get that amp to break up by playing them on 10 and having the cops visit and thru the smoke haze the cops would say to us -"what are you kids doing ? " Just playing our guitars officer ! I saved up working a part time job during high school to get my Gibson Les Paul Custom . I am the product of inner city public school and first learned the Violin during First Grade , then moved on to the Cello and then in High School I learned the guitar ( to get girls ) I was taught how to read music and was taught music theory in public school . So I am no rich kid that grew up in the suburbs and had to work my tail off for everything I have . You cant make sweeping judgments that someone either fits into a round hole or a square hole .
 

Billy Porter

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Joined
Mar 16, 2005
Messages
1,129
Whilst not wishing to compare my personal experience with EL Gringo I agree with most of what he says. I'm also a compulsive tinkerer and repaired and modded guitars when I worked in a music store for 13 years and have built several guitars for fun (it's cheaper to buy ready made LOL).

We sold mainly Japanese copies back then. Some excellent top end Ibanezes etc in the law suit era. We took a Tokai in part-ex. Marvellous guitar, beautiful top and feel and sounded great. One of the guys in the store was going to buy it then..................I brought in my 73 LPC. No comparison when played side by side and yes, it was to tone that the Tokai lacked when played alongside my Gibson.

At normal house volumes it's hard to detect some differences in guitar tone. It's when the volumes turned high at gig levels that it really stands out, especially playing with low gain just beginning to clip some distortion. I bought a Big Muff and all my guitars sound mostly the same even at its lowest settings - don't use the bloody thing.

I get that you don't think that the cost of a Gibson is worth it to you. That's fine. If I was buying a Les Paul now I'd get an Epiphone even though I can afford an R9. Just different priorities nowadays. But I've worked hard over the years to buy all of my gear, nothing handed to me on a plate i.e. not privileged

I'm sure you Grecos are fine guitars, I just don't believe they're as good as a Gibson. Even if 95% there the other 5% makes all the difference.

BTW - my Les Paul hasn't been out of its case since before Covid. I've a homemade Tele I use around the house, sounds great and I'm not bothered if it gets damaged.
 

greg-delta

Les Paul Froum Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2020
Messages
47
Dead wrong as I play thru two high gain Marshall 2555X into two 2551 AV cabs loaded with Celestion Vintage 30's speakers . Not exactly vintage tone territory . More like modern high gain territory . You can't lump everyone into one category . One size does not fit all on the Les Paul Forum .

Not "dead wrong". I didn't say universally that everyone hates high gain or whatever. I didn't lump everyone into one category. I simply said the forum has a traditionalist bent.

Why gripe and rain on others parade ?

it's kind of unfortunate that you view discourse and discussion in such a way. I mean, if that's really how you feel, why be on a forum?

You cant make sweeping judgments that someone either fits into a round hole or a square hole .

of course you can, but I didn't
 

greg-delta

Les Paul Froum Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2020
Messages
47
Whilst not wishing to compare my personal experience with EL Gringo I agree with most of what he says. I'm also a compulsive tinkerer and repaired and modded guitars when I worked in a music store for 13 years and have built several guitars for fun (it's cheaper to buy ready made LOL).

We sold mainly Japanese copies back then. Some excellent top end Ibanezes etc in the law suit era. We took a Tokai in part-ex. Marvellous guitar, beautiful top and feel and sounded great. One of the guys in the store was going to buy it then..................I brought in my 73 LPC. No comparison when played side by side and yes, it was to tone that the Tokai lacked when played alongside my Gibson.

At normal house volumes it's hard to detect some differences in guitar tone. It's when the volumes turned high at gig levels that it really stands out, especially playing with low gain just beginning to clip some distortion. I bought a Big Muff and all my guitars sound mostly the same even at its lowest settings - don't use the bloody thing.

I get that you don't think that the cost of a Gibson is worth it to you. That's fine. If I was buying a Les Paul now I'd get an Epiphone even though I can afford an R9. Just different priorities nowadays. But I've worked hard over the years to buy all of my gear, nothing handed to me on a plate i.e. not privileged

I'm sure you Grecos are fine guitars, I just don't believe they're as good as a Gibson. Even if 95% there the other 5% makes all the difference.

BTW - my Les Paul hasn't been out of its case since before Covid. I've a homemade Tele I use around the house, sounds great and I'm not bothered if it gets damaged.


Eh, you're kind of way off here lol

There is no magic in a headstock inlay. I don't really care about sound, first and foremost I care about feel (like weight, neck shape) and looks. Sound is easily changeable with a pickup change or whatever.

I wasn't saying you don't work for your money, I'm saying I value my money too much to blow it on a gibson priced guitar. I also abstain from gibson because of how downright-stupid they run their company. I'll never give a cent to a company that's so tone-deaf and backwards lol
 

El Gringo

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Apr 8, 2015
Messages
5,657
Eh, you're kind of way off here lol

There is no magic in a headstock inlay. I don't really care about sound, first and foremost I care about feel (like weight, neck shape) and looks. Sound is easily changeable with a pickup change or whatever.

I wasn't saying you don't work for your money, I'm saying I value my money too much to blow it on a gibson priced guitar. I also abstain from gibson because of how downright-stupid they run their company. I'll never give a cent to a company that's so tone-deaf and backwards lol

If you aren't into Gibson like everybody here right - why post on a forum with Gibson Fanatics ? Seems like a waste of your time ? I forgot to add that Gibson has been around for over 120 years , so maybe they know what they are doing as longevity doesn't happen by mistake . Also you might notice by reading some of the posts on this forum that fans of Gibson place a value on the "tone" of Gibson guitars . That's no accident because Gibson knows how to make tone Which is exactly where you are missing the boat, and the ocean .Seriously it's all about the tone, why we fork over the bucks . Yes you have to have a decent amp , with decent pickups as it's all a perfect symphony to get the desired results .
 
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Billy Porter

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 16, 2005
Messages
1,129
Eh, you're kind of way off here lol

There is no magic in a headstock inlay. I don't really care about sound, first and foremost I care about feel (like weight, neck shape) and looks. Sound is easily changeable with a pickup change or whatever.

If your looking for feel, weight and neck shape and not bothered about the sound then that opens up your purchasing horizons greatly. As I previously stated nowadays I'd probably buy Epiphone as they look like great value and far better quality for a budget guitar then was available back when I was young.

My first criteria when looking to buy a guitar is the neck. Having spent 13 years in a music store you get to try hundreds of guitars. The best neck I ever played that suited me was a law suit Ibanez explorer - should have bought that one doh...... :dang

If you looking for weight then look at semi-acoustics. They can also sound better than Les Pauls as well as looking really cool.

A good guitar can be enhanced with a quality set of pickups. However, putting a Ferrari engine in a Ford Focus will not make the Focus as good as a Ferrari. Your law of diminishing returns comes into play. A cheap Les Paul copy with the pickups out of my Les Paul will not sound like my Les Paul. Lots of other things affect that sound

BTW - the best guitar that I own is a Japanese Fender Telecaster Custom that I fitted Custom Shop Texas specials. Went in to buy a USA model but the MIJ was way better in feel and quality then all the other Teles in the store and also a lot cheaper - just lacking in the electronics. My wife couldn't understand why I bought the cheaper one.

I'm not quite sure why you've come on this forum to slag Gibsons on this forum though. We've all differing views and needs/wants.
 

greg-delta

Les Paul Froum Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2020
Messages
47
If your looking for feel, weight and neck shape and not bothered about the sound then that opens up your purchasing horizons greatly. As I previously stated nowadays I'd probably buy Epiphone as they look like great value and far better quality for a budget guitar then was available back when I was young.

My first criteria when looking to buy a guitar is the neck. Having spent 13 years in a music store you get to try hundreds of guitars. The best neck I ever played that suited me was a law suit Ibanez explorer - should have bought that one doh...... :dang

If you looking for weight then look at semi-acoustics. They can also sound better than Les Pauls as well as looking really cool.

A good guitar can be enhanced with a quality set of pickups. However, putting a Ferrari engine in a Ford Focus will not make the Focus as good as a Ferrari. Your law of diminishing returns comes into play. A cheap Les Paul copy with the pickups out of my Les Paul will not sound like my Les Paul. Lots of other things affect that sound

BTW - the best guitar that I own is a Japanese Fender Telecaster Custom that I fitted Custom Shop Texas specials. Went in to buy a USA model but the MIJ was way better in feel and quality then all the other Teles in the store and also a lot cheaper - just lacking in the electronics. My wife couldn't understand why I bought the cheaper one.

I'm not quite sure why you've come on this forum to slag Gibsons on this forum though. We've all differing views and needs/wants.

im a fan of LES PAULS, that interest isn’t limited or defined by the headstock inlay. The les paul is a beautiful design, I just think Gibson does a bad job at making them and have kind of damaged the legacy with poor quality and bad business decisions

just because I dislike Gibson doesn’t mean I have to hate any and all others that produce these awesome machines
 

greg-delta

Les Paul Froum Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2020
Messages
47
If you aren't into Gibson like everybody here right - why post on a forum with Gibson Fanatics ? Seems like a waste of your time ? I forgot to add that Gibson has been around for over 120 years , so maybe they know what they are doing as longevity doesn't happen by mistake . Also you might notice by reading some of the posts on this forum that fans of Gibson place a value on the "tone" of Gibson guitars . That's no accident because Gibson knows how to make tone Which is exactly where you are missing the boat, and the ocean .Seriously it's all about the tone, why we fork over the bucks . Yes you have to have a decent amp , with decent pickups as it's all a perfect symphony to get the desired results .


I thought this was a forum for les Paul fanatics, didn’t realize it was Gibson only country

gibson has been around so long because they float by on past glory. In terms of an actual company, they are dying. Their price structure makes no sense whatsoever, they have no relevant endorsers, and no innovation

look at a company like fender. I personally don’t like fender guitars, I have a couple amazing teles but as a COMPANY/business, they’re probably the best company in the business. Great marketing, good blend of modernization and classic designs, they have a diverse marketing strategy,they have many relevant price points for all players

fender has Eric Johnson and freaking Slipknot as endorsees

A company like fender makes an effort to appeal to all market segments, metal heads, country players, new kids and old veteran adult players. There is a fender out there for a guitarist from every walk of life

gibson cares about one demographic. Boomer collectors still trying to chase tone from 50 year Old records. My demographic doesn’t matter to Gibson, Gibson doesn’t matter to me. There are huge chunks of musicians that Gibson ignores. Girls, young players, metal players...they make no effort to widen their appeal, which is downright stupid from a marketing standpoint and that’s why they went bankrupt. They don’t care about PLAYERS, they care about price gouging old dudes for some wood and magnets

it’s not all about tone, it’s about making music
 

MikeSlub

Administrator
Joined
Jul 15, 2001
Messages
15,166
I thought this was a forum for les Paul fanatics, didn’t realize it was Gibson only country

gibson has been around so long because they float by on past glory. In terms of an actual company, they are dying. Their price structure makes no sense whatsoever, they have no relevant endorsers, and no innovation

look at a company like fender. I personally don’t like fender guitars, I have a couple amazing teles but as a COMPANY/business, they’re probably the best company in the business. Great marketing, good blend of modernization and classic designs, they have a diverse marketing strategy,they have many relevant price points for all players

fender has Eric Johnson and freaking Slipknot as endorsees

A company like fender makes an effort to appeal to all market segments, metal heads, country players, new kids and old veteran adult players. There is a fender out there for a guitarist from every walk of life

gibson cares about one demographic. Boomer collectors still trying to chase tone from 50 year Old records. My demographic doesn’t matter to Gibson, Gibson doesn’t matter to me. There are huge chunks of musicians that Gibson ignores. Girls, young players, metal players...they make no effort to widen their appeal, which is downright stupid from a marketing standpoint and that’s why they went bankrupt. They don’t care about PLAYERS, they care about price gouging old dudes for some wood and magnets

it’s not all about tone, it’s about making music
Greg, the only company licensed to put the name "Les Paul" on their headstock is Gibson. The Les Paul Forum is all about Gibson enthusiasts. While members often can and do point out issues with their Gibsons or offer constructive feedback to the company, the majority of us are here because we have an affinity to the brand - Gibson and the model - Les Paul. If you are going to keep complaining about Gibson as a company and its guitars and the demographic of people who play and love Gibson Les Pauls as I've noted from you in this and many other posts you've made around our Forum, then why are you here? It feels like it's time for you to take a break and play your Grecos. :eek:la
 
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AA00475Bassman

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 26, 2016
Messages
3,769
0zymoQa.jpg
[/IMG][QUR
OTE=greg-delta;2865264]I thought this was a forum for les Paul fanatics, didn’t realize it was Gibson only country

gibson has been around so long because they float by on past glory. In terms of an actual company, they are dying. Their price structure makes no sense whatsoever, they have no relevant endorsers, and no innovation

look at a company like fender. I personally don’t like fender guitars, I have a couple amazing teles but as a COMPANY/business, they’re probably the best company in the business. Great marketing, good blend of modernization and classic designs, they have a diverse marketing strategy,they have many relevant price points for all players

fender has Eric Johnson and freaking Slipknot as endorsees

A company like fender makes an effort to appeal to all market segments, metal heads, country players, new kids and old veteran adult players. There is a fender out there for a guitarist from every walk of life

gibson cares about one demographic. Boomer collectors still trying to chase tone from 50 year Old records. My demographic doesn’t matter to Gibson, Gibson doesn’t matter to me. There are huge chunks of musicians that Gibson ignores. Girls, young players, metal players...they make no effort to widen their appeal, which is downright stupid from a marketing standpoint and that’s why they went bankrupt. They don’t care about PLAYERS, they care about price gouging old dudes for some wood and magnets

it’s not all about tone, it’s about making music[/QUOTE]
 

au_rick

Active member
Joined
Mar 18, 2010
Messages
871
Greg, the only company licensed to put the name "Les Paul" on their headstock is Gibson. The Les Paul Forum is all about Gibson enthusiasts. While members often can and do point out issues with their Gibsons or offer constructive feedback to the company, the majority of us are here because we have an affinity to the brand - Gibson and the model - Les Paul. If you are going to keep complaining about Gibson as a company and its guitars and the demographic of people who play and love Gibson Les Pauls as I've noted from you in this and many other posts you've made around our Forum, then why are you here? It feels like it's time for you to take a break and play your Grecos. :eek:la

"the only company licensed to put the name "Les Paul" on their headstock is Gibson" - and Epiphone !!
 

Dave P

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Joined
Oct 13, 2001
Messages
976
A decade ago I was trying out some new Historics, wasn't even looking to buy a guitar, just wanted to check them out. I tried a few, then my brother handed me another Les Paul. It sounded great, then I looked at the headstock - Tokai! LOL! I ended up buying the Tokai and still have it.
 

bursty

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 25, 2012
Messages
544
located this old thread by accident

I purchased a 2000 Tokai LS-320 many years ago; it is now 22 years old aka vintage :censored:

the 320 is not 'better' nor 'worse' than any other guitar; it is what it is. Honduran, Brazilian, 4A, etc.

so, can I post a pic of the LS-320?
 

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Keefoman

Active member
Joined
Nov 4, 2009
Messages
576
located this old thread by accident

I purchased a 2000 Tokai LS-320 many years ago; it is now 22 years old aka vintage :censored:
Sorry, but 22 years doesn't equal vintage. Actually, even 50 years old doesn't mean vintage. The term vintage is use for goods of an era specifically known for superiour quality and therefore highly demanded.

Nice guitar you have there, but it isn't anywhere near vintage in any way.
 

DonnRowe

Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2019
Messages
59
It can be vintage for a Tokai. Is it? I'm not sure, as I'm not a Tokai expert :) When speaking of vintage, context to the item is important! It may not be a vintage Gibson Les Paul but it may be a vintage Tokai (Love Rock?). Wines have different vintages for varieties and certain years depending on features. I would guess violins have different vintages depending on the country, and style of manufacture. Maybe each may be deemed vintage to their own as they are of different origins. IMHO of course!
 
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