My new 1958 les paull replica

J.D. said:

Help me understand it then. I'm reading that the same exact guitar without all of the authentic cosmetic details isn't good enough. I honestly don't understand what drives one to commission a replica.

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I don't know you. I don't owe you an answer. You can't even have a discussion without attacking people. Best of luck, Sir. I've obliged your ignorance longer then I should have...

To measure apples with apples, the most accurate Historic Les Pauls released by Gibson are the 2018 Brazilian Les Pauls which cost around 10k which is inline with most of these upscale fakes.

With regard to Rolex, there were fake Daytonas made with actual Zenith chronograph movements. a movement for a time that Rolex used in their factory Daytona watches and a movement many watch connoisseurs find superior to the current Rolex chronograph movement. Swiss Valjoux and eta movements which are used as a base for many high end swiss watches have also been used as the movement for many higher end fake Rolexes. Bottom line, regardless of quality, a fake is a fake, as fake as the $10 pot metal quartz Rolexes they used to sell in Time Square.

I'm not here to judge anyone, but I don't like being judged either by certain smug so and sos who want to opine on the LPF about how superior their fakes are and anyone who doesn't realize it are tone deaf buffoons overpaying Gibson for their schlock recreations . Interestingly, amidst all this opining there is never a scintilla of objective data to support these claims. I wonder if there is even evidence to prove that all of these fakes were made using this alleged magical old growth tone wood harvested from the mythical forests of yore. But hey a guy comfortable infringing someone else's IP is of course going to ensure his woods are real and not fake, lol, right?

I could've bought a fake Les Paul or several LP style replicas including a real nice "old growth" Gustavsson as easily as I bought my historics or any number of high end pieces of gear. But i've experienced enough guitars to know what a good Les Paul sounds like. If I couldn't find it from the custom shop, I wouldn't waste my money on a Gibson. Maybe someone can hear the age or which side of the hill the tree was cut from, but I've never met that person so I don't fetishize over how old a piece of wood may or may not be nor do I particularly care how correctly a logo is positioned. I feel fortunate to play some amazing guitars that provide the nuance and transparency I didn't think possible with humbucker guitars. So kudos to Gibson for getting it right.

One of the nice things about the LPF is they are very tolerant of diverse opinions and vociferous debate. Things that I believe are good to deepen human understanding rather than censorship-lite nanny monitored safe spaces that are so trendy today. That said, if someone came on the Rolex forum and opined about how superior their fake Rolex is to folks that are loyal to the brand, they'd be given the boot post haste. Kudos to the LPF for giving an atta' boy to freedom of speech.

Patek said:

Fake/replica/copy whatever Rolexes are inferior in every possible way to the real thing. And are vastly cheaper.

You could say the opposite is true for these master replica les pauls. They are certainly in general, a lot more expensive than a customshop reissue.

the comparison you made doesn’t work.

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JPP-1 said:

To measure apples with apples, the most accurate Historic Les Pauls released by Gibson are the 2018 Brazilian Les Pauls which cost around 10k which is inline with most of these upscale fakes.

With regard to Rolex, there were fake Daytonas made with actual Zenith chronograph movements. a movement for a time that Rolex used in their factory Daytona watches and a movement many watch connoisseurs find superior to the current Rolex chronograph movement. Swiss Valjoux and eta movements which are used as a base for many high end swiss watches have also been used as the movement for many higher end fake Rolexes. Bottom line, regardless of quality, a fake is a fake, as fake as the $10 pot metal quartz Rolexes they used to sell in Time Square.

I'm not here to judge anyone, but I don't like being judged either by certain smug so and sos who want to opine on the LPF about how superior their fakes are and anyone who doesn't realize it are tone deaf buffoons overpaying Gibson for their schlock recreations . Interestingly, amidst all this opining there is never a scintilla of objective data to support these claims. I wonder if there is even evidence to prove that all of these fakes were made using this alleged magical old growth tone wood harvested from the mythical forests of yore. But hey a guy comfortable infringing someone else's IP is of course going to ensure his woods are real and not fake, lol, right?

I could've bought a fake Les Paul or several LP style replicas including a real nice "old growth" Gustavsson as easily as I bought my historics or any number of high end pieces of gear. But i've experienced enough guitars to know what a good Les Paul sounds like. If I couldn't find it from the custom shop, I wouldn't waste my money on a Gibson. Maybe someone can hear the age or which side of the hill the tree was cut from, but I've never met that person so I don't fetishize over how old a piece of wood may or may not be nor do I particularly care how correctly a logo is positioned. I feel fortunate to play some amazing guitars that provide the nuance and transparency I didn't think possible with humbucker guitars. So kudos to Gibson for getting it right.

One of the nice things about the LPF is they are very tolerant of diverse opinions and vociferous debate. Things that I believe are good to deepen human understanding rather than censorship-lite nanny monitored safe spaces that are so trendy today. That said, if someone came on the Rolex forum and opined about how superior their fake Rolex is to folks that are loyal to the brand, they'd be given the boot post haste. Kudos to the LPF for giving an atta' boy to freedom of speech.

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We own customshop guitars as well... So what are your thoughts on that?

J.D. said:

Help me understand it then. I'm reading that the same exact guitar without all of the authentic cosmetic details isn't good enough. I honestly don't understand what drives one to commission a replica.

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Unless you are just trolling, it is pretty clear Ed and NYC have explained it many times, In about 20 different iterations. If you still don’t get it, then maybe it’s just time to accept that you never will. And perhaps avoid replica threads to avoid any confusion / stress in not understanding

NYCBURST said:

We own customshop guitars as well... So what are your thoughts on that?

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I don't know who we is but my thoughts on you or anyone owning a fine guitar is that you enjoy it in good health.

JPP-1 said:

I don't know who we is but my thoughts on you or anyone owning a fine guitar is that you enjoy it in good health.

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The people that own these Replicas.. I could understand someone saying I'm wrong for making comparisons if I myself didn't own custom shop guitars, But I do own Gibson custom shop reproductions of 1959's and I own Replicas, My "opinion" is that a replica is a lot closer to the original, my "opinion" is that there is a noticeably difference in old growth wood, original nitro finish and resin glue tops... It's just my opinion. I just won't tolerate people coming at me for stating my opinion about "MY" guitars.. Again "my" guitars... I don't think that's too out of line...

NYCBURST said:

No, Tom take a deep breath, you are completely misunderstanding what I am saying, I'm saying you struggle with the fact that "I" think it's alright
to put the Logo on a replica. It goes against "your" ethics. That's what I am saying. Another words, You can't understand why I want it on the guitar. And I struggle to understand why "you" think it's such a big deal.... It's just a difference of opinion. Is that little emoji giving me the finger, I believe it is..

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You clearly said I struggle with Gibson not making guitars up to your standards.
I never said that. It's a lie.
If you meant something else, why did you write that crap? :rolleyes

Yes, that emoji is giving you the finger. I get pissed off when people write lies about me.

*"The reissues Gibson is making is not up to my standards, I'm very sorry that you struggle with that, but again that is you're American right to disagree"

Here I copied and pasted the comment, I clearly said a Gibson reissue not up to my standards and I'm "sorry you struggle with that" meaning you struggle with the fact that I believe they are not making great reissues.

Ed A said:

and just like somebody wants a Nicky to look like the original or a Sandy to look like the original, I want my replica to look like an original!... After all, anybody with a Sandy replica is going to gush about how cool it is they have a guitar thats intention was to look like the original....

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How many Sandys would Gibson be selling today if no one ever made a replica to begin with?

I doubt they would have figured out that that's what people wanted. I mean those geniuses gave Les Paul an SG & told him "this is what you really want."

Now, they're putting micro switches, automatic tuners, & usb ports on Les Pauls.

thunderkyss said:

How many Sandys would Gibson be selling today if no one ever made a replica to begin with?

I doubt they would have figured out that that's what people wanted. I mean those geniuses gave Les Paul an SG & told him "this is what you really want."

Now, they're putting micro switches, automatic tuners, & usb ports on Les Pauls.

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Exactley..

I’m very sorry too, I didn’t realize you were someone of incredible importance and that myself or anyone should give a fvck about your standards. I like my custom shop guitars as much or more than than the boutique, allegedly old wood guitars Ive compared them to.

Maybe you’re sufffering from the placebo effect of believing Internet hype or you got tone turds for historics. Personally I don’t care. It’s a lot of unsubstantiated hot air and gum flapping. I’ve posted a couple of JD Simo videos where the historic he is playing is as good as any Les Paul tone I’ve heard. You posted more hot air about your standards and the guitars you allegedly own. Post a video of anyone playing one of these magic guitars you speak on. Show us the elusive tone that meets your standards.

Like I said, I’m in NY too, if you want to meet up at one of the many guitar stores in the area (I’m partial to Rudy’s) and put your money where you mouth is lmk. We can shoot a video and take votes on YouTube, Otherwise, your entitled to your opinion as I am to mine. But seriously post the maker of these allegedly great replicas you own. I’ll buy one just so I can go onto the replicas official forum and trash talk these fake guitars with my standards and opinions. Maybe then you’ll get a clue.

NYCBURST said:

*"The reissues Gibson is making is not up to my standards, I'm very sorry that you struggle with that, but again that is you're American right to disagree"

Here I copied and pasted the comment, I clearly said a Gibson reissue not up to my standards and I'm "sorry you struggle with that" meaning you struggle with the fact that I believe they are not making great reissues.

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JPP-1 said:

I’m very sorry too, I didn’t realize you were someone of incredible importance and that myself or anyone should give a fvck about your standards. I like my custom shop guitars as much or more than than the boutique, allegedly old wood guitars Ive compared them to.

Maybe you’re sufffering from the placebo effect of believing Internet hype or you got tone turds for historics. Personally I don’t care. It’s a lot of unsubstantiated hot air and gum flapping. I’ve posted a couple of JD Simo videos where the historic he is playing is as good as any Les Paul tone I’ve heard. You posted more hot air about your standards and the guitars you allegedly own. Post a video of anyone playing one of these magic guitars you speak on.

Like I said, I’m in NY too, if you want to meet up at one of the many guitar stores in the area (I’m partial to Rudy’s) and put your money where you mouth is lmk. We can shoot a video and take votes on YouTube, Otherwise, your standards and opinions are nothing more than a big fat enema. And we all know what those are good for.

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You're a class act, buddy. That's your opinion. I dont know you and I dont care to know you. Quit living vicariously through people playing guitars on YouTube and go out there yourself and make the judgement. My standards are of the guitars I Own, you buy what you want. I buy what I want.

Check out my new Ferrari. Well it's not really a Ferrari. Had it hand built to my spec. It's better than what Ferrari is making these days. Guy even put real Ferrari badges on it. Painted it in Ferrari red. Guy says the paint is NOS from the '60s. I don't care if anyone likes it; it is up to my standards. I've driven real Ferraris and have owned some, and this one is right there with any of them.

What are you like a 14 year old boy? Omg !!
That's so immature... dude really. Such a cliche les Paul forum meme too.

Ed, You document your replicas on YouTube which shows a level of forthrightness and I think acts as a deterrent to someone trying to pass one off as a counterfeit. Many Folks here know you and your guitars and the community is pretty small.

You also, rather than gum flapping, have posted some compelling Les Paul tone videos on YouTube with historics, replicas and conversions. Your video documentation of what to look for in a Les Paul could be a public service announcement afaic. Even that Mexican Tele sounded great so don’t overlook your technique. You know, that old chestnut that tone is in the fingers.

I’m fairly adamant about my view on tone woods but your videos actually got me to revisit some of these boutique old wood guitars like the Retrospect. JBL D120fs too. I ended up buying a Brazilian R9 that I figured I could flip easily enough if it wasnt up to snuff. But it’s great, better than I thought possible. I did buy a mint condition JBL D120f that I consider the PAF of speakiners and is not going anywhere.

Guitars are unique, no two are exactly the same. A small talented Luthier has a better shot a creating a happy accident of a great guitar because he can lavish a level of attention that a big manufacturer cannot. That said, some of the Les Pauls Gibson is making are second to none in my book. If you can’t get the goods out of them, even Pearly or Greeny won’t help you.

Ed A said:

What guitar owners are YOU talking about that I wont allow in my heaven... You have an issue with those that commission these guitars but not those who have them... I have NO issue with anybody that owns any guitar Gibson or not.... All players are welcome to my heaven LOL!

Yes, of course it has nothing to do with quality, or playability or feel or tone... guitars for many of us, and Im going to guess for you as well, are much more than just a tool... Ive tried to explain many times (not just to you), the emotional aspect of it, the joy, the fun of the whole process of having the guitar built and why I want that logo on there... when you say its because of ego, I dont agree, but maybe I dont understand the definition of that word...... SO... its all good... Im certainly not going to change how you feel about it, Im not expecting to... Youre not stricken from any of my lists (which I dont have)... Im not angry with you... you may be with me... I dont think I have been rude, but I do have my opinions as you have yours... I was hoping to give you some insight as to why I feel differently about it, not saying you should agree with what I think, but hoping you would at least accept that I am being as honest as I can be and not hiding behind anything when asked questions.

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NYCBURST said:

*"The reissues Gibson is making is not up to my standards, I'm very sorry that you struggle with that, but again that is you're American right to disagree"

Here I copied and pasted the comment, I clearly said a Gibson reissue not up to my standards and I'm "sorry you struggle with that" …



….. meaning you struggle with the fact that I believe they are not making great reissues.

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Again and for the last time, this is absolutely untrue!
It was untrue the first time you wrote and I quoted it and told you that.

I’m lucky enough to live close to a bunch of great guitar shops and fortunate enough to have owned and own lots of great gear. I also have the good fortune to have some friends that own some really nice gear as well. I don’t need to live vicariously through YouTube videos. That would be disingenuous, kinda like some of the things we’re discussing here,

Posting a video to illustrate a point is Not living vicariously through it. You should recognize the distinction. And I had changed the last paragraph of my initial post because admittedly it wasn’t a very nice comment.

That said do you have any clue how arrogant and condescending your statements sound, especially on a site that celebrates GIBSON guitars. And then when pushed for anything to back up your statements like a YouTube video, you’re dismissive and/or repeat your unsubstantiated comments.

You don’t want to post a video or have a six string showdown that’s you’re choice, you’re good with your guitars, like I said I wish you well with them, I’m good with mine. The difference is i don’t go onto fake guitar abc forum and slam those guitars with a bunch of unsubstantiated blather like I’m the royal duke of tone and backhandedly insult every person who bought one of those guitars, That’s another distinction.

NYCBURST said:

You're a class act, buddy. That's your opinion. I dont know you and I dont care to know you. Quit living vicariously through people playing guitars on YouTube and go out there yourself and make the judgement. My standards are of the guitars I Own, you buy what you want. I buy what I want.

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Tom Wittrock said:

Again and for the last time, this is absolutely untrue!
It was untrue the first time you wrote and I quoted it and told you that.

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Look I'm done with this thread and this forum. I'm came onto this forum to talk about guitars and all the little nuances of guitars, the arguing nonsense is not my idea of a good time. I like replica 1959 les Paul's, if you dont that's fine. You guys buy what you want to buy, I'll buy what I want to buy. In the meantime, enjoy all the guitars, they're all great ! I haven't any animosity to any of the guys here, and I sincerely mean that. Best of luck..

J.D. said:

Check out my new Ferrari. Well it's not really a Ferrari. Had it hand built to my spec. It's better than what Ferrari is making these days. Guy even put real Ferrari badges on it. Painted it in Ferrari red. Guy says the paint is NOS from the '60s. I don't care if anyone likes it; it is up to my standards. I've driven real Ferraris and have owned some, and this one is right there with any of them.

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Lmfao. The photo is good but the text is priceless.

JPP-1 said:

Ed, You document your replicas on YouTube which I think acts as a deterrent to someone trying to pass one off as a counterfeit. Many Folks here know you and your guitars and the community is pretty small.

You’ve also rather than gum flapping have posted some compelling Les Paul tone videos on YouTube with historics, replicas and conversions. Your video documentation of what to look for in a Les Paul could be a public service announcement afaic. Even that Mexican Tele sounded great so don’t overlook your technique. You know, that old chestnut that tone is in the fingers.

I’m fairly adamant about my view on tone woods but your videos actually got me to revisit some of these boutique old wood guitars like the Retrospect. JBL D120fs too. I ended up buying a Brazilian R9 that I figured I could flip easily enough if it wasnt up to snuff. But it’s great, better than I thought possible. I did buy a mint condition JBL D120f that I consider the PAF of speakiners and is not going anywhere.

Guitars are unique, no two are exactly the same. A small talented Luthier has a better shot a creating a happy accident of a great guitar because he can lavish a level of attention that a big manufacturer cannot. That said, some of the Les Pauls Gibson is making are second to none in my book. If you can’t get the goods out of them, even Pearly or Greeny won’t help you.

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Hey JPP, we are not too far apart here. I think you know that I don’t badmouth new Gibsons I would not have bought a 2018 goldtop if I thought they were crap. And I know you’ve heard me say that I’ve had many great reissues and the Carmelita CC was probably the closest to what I’m looking from an LP. It’s always hard to quantify what a better sounding guitar is and what we think better even means and it may be different for each of us. Plus what one guitar lacks compared to another it may excel in another area. Easiest way to quantify this is as I run up and down the neck and play different phrases and different notes on one guitar I’ll be like damn that note is just exploding with harmonics an awesome tone and Im not getting it from guitar #2. But then guitar #2 may have some note or a section of the board that just seem to exceed the other one. Ultimately if I have to choose between two guitars because of tone I may say to myself well this is one has six things that I like better about the tone of this guitar but four things I like better about the tone of the other one so I’m gonna go with the one that has six things better. If that makes any sense. So you and I agree that every piece of wood makes every guitar unique. The only thing I’m asking you to consider is if that is a fact then why wouldn’t it be possible that the species of that wood and where it was harvested from and whether it was grown slowly or quickly and the age of that wood might contribute to a tonal difference as well. The new guitar you got with the Brazilian board is blowing your mind, could it be the Brazilian versus the Indian or whatever Gibson usually uses these days? Possible. I think there is more of a tonal difference coming from the mahogany than there is the board but it’s possible. In any case the best sounding Les Paul that I’ve ever heard was my 53/57 goldtop which I sold to a friend. When he brings it over to the house there is a tonal quality to it and it’s not just his pickups and hardware because I had all of my same stuff in it at one time, it’s that elusive and different thing I can honestly say I have the not experienced with the new guitars. Some of them close for sure but not quite there. But my replicas get me just about all the way there and certain aspects of my replica I actually prefer over my old goldtop. And vice a versa. I’m not saying that these differences are huge. Bonamassa has said 5%. Obviously there’s no numeric gauge I believe he is just trying to say that there is a difference regardless of the electronics or hardware being used and the difference may not be huge but it’s there. He said it face-to-face to me once as well, commenting on how you have to pay 50 times the price to get 5 or 10% more. But that once you’ve got that it’s hard to give it up... Anyway the invite is there if you ever wanna take a ride out to the island and we can crank the shit out of my 69 plexi Superlead. Plus I know you are a Page fan and the Jimmy Page Royal Hiwatt I have is a monster!