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  1. #161
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    Re: Calling all 1968 / 1969 Les Paul Owners.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wilko
    I'm wondering about "st". I don't think there are any from that era that are "short tenons". They were either long original style, or short original style (transitional tenon). All of them are visible from the pickup cavity.

    A short tenon does not show in the cavity, and wasn't introduced until early-mid 70s.
    ...mid 70's huh ?

  2. #162
    All Access/Backstage Pass Wilko's Avatar
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    Re: Calling all 1968 / 1969 Les Paul Owners.

    maybe later?

  3. #163
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    Re: Calling all 1968 / 1969 Les Paul Owners.

    ..Wilko, I've already posted that my '69 has one ..you disputed it earlier in this thread that it didn't happen 'till the mid 70's ...Stumbler has posted that his '69 Custom has a short tenon as well...

  4. #164
    Les Paul Forum Member Stumbler's Avatar
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    Re: Calling all 1968 / 1969 Les Paul Owners.

    Does anyone have pics of the so-called transitional tenon? Maybe I've got one in my 69 Custom, but I thought it was short. Maybe once they went with 3 piece necks, the tenons all went short too. I definitely have a 3 piece neck and it is definitely a 69.

    Inquiring minds want to know ...

  5. #165
    All Access/Backstage Pass Wilko's Avatar
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    Re: Calling all 1968 / 1969 Les Paul Owners.

    Quote Originally Posted by gentlegiant
    ..Wilko, I've already posted that my '69 has one ..you disputed it earlier in this thread that it didn't happen 'till the mid 70's ...Stumbler has posted that his '69 Custom has a short tenon as well...
    You have a 69 with no tenon showing in the cavity? I've never seen one that way.

    Do you know what a short tenon looks like?

  6. #166
    Les Paul Forum Member Stumbler's Avatar
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    Re: Calling all 1968 / 1969 Les Paul Owners.

    I took another look in the neck pup cavity of my 69 Custom.

    The tenon of this 3 piece neck protrudes maybe 1/16" into a space that is about
    1 1/2" x 1/8" and about 1/2" deep. It still looks like a short tenon to me.

    Repeat - it is definitely a 69 Custom.

  7. #167
    mtndon
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    Re: Calling all 1968 / 1969 Les Paul Owners.

    1) 531xxx
    2) 1pc Neck, small headstock, no volute
    3) GT
    4) installed Humbuckers
    5) 1 pc body
    6,7,8) "I dont know".

    Hope it has a good home.
    Last edited by mtndon; 08-13-05 at 08:32 PM.

  8. #168
    All Access/Backstage Pass Wilko's Avatar
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    Re: Calling all 1968 / 1969 Les Paul Owners.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stumbler
    I took another look in the neck pup cavity of my 69 Custom.

    The tenon of this 3 piece neck protrudes maybe 1/16" into a space that is about
    1 1/2" x 1/8" and about 1/2" deep. It still looks like a short tenon to me.

    Repeat - it is definitely a 69 Custom.
    If you can see any evidence of a tenon in the pickup cavity, it's not a "short tenon"

    As I posted earlier, a short tenon DOES NOT enter the cavity at all. If it's not long, and you can see it in the cavity, it's what we've been calling a "transitional tenon".

    Here's a short tenon in my '76 custom:

    Last edited by Wilko; 08-13-05 at 09:03 PM.

  9. #169
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    Re: Calling all 1968 / 1969 Les Paul Owners.

    I have a picture of the transitional tennon in my 69 Custom. I will e-mail it to one of you if you can post it. I'm not set up to post picts on the forum.

  10. #170
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    Re: Calling all 1968 / 1969 Les Paul Owners.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wilko
    You have a 69 with no tenon showing in the cavity? I've never seen one that way.

    Do you know what a short tenon looks like?
    ...that's right Wilko ..and yes I know what one looks like.
    Last edited by gentlegiant; 08-14-05 at 09:04 AM. Reason: because I sounded like an asshole

  11. #171
    Les Paul Forum Member toxpert's Avatar
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    Re: Calling all 1968 / 1969 Les Paul Owners.

    Case Question...

    I have the original form-fitted case for my '68 that needs one item repaired.

    The case is overall 'good' condition except for handle - this was lost years ago.

    Who/where is the best source for obtaining a accurate replacement? The handle mounts are in good condition.. it's just the handle that is no longer with us. Removing and reusing the handle retaining pins looks very feasible.

    Note... just like my Lifton case from the '50s.. this '68 case is really loose fitting. For day-to-day transport, I purchased a new black alligator Gibson case - these newer cases provide multiple points for the neck as well as for body support and keep the guitar from sliding around in the case. I am really quite impressed with this latest evolution of the Gibson case.
    ________
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    Last edited by toxpert; 09-14-11 at 11:51 PM.

  12. #172
    Les Paul Forum Member DaveTV's Avatar
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    Re: Calling all 1968 / 1969 Les Paul Owners.

    Quote Originally Posted by gentlegiant
    ...that's right Wilko ..and yes I know what one looks like.
    You're going to have to post pics of that one, as no one has ever seen one made like that, ever. :ahem

    You would have the only one in existence.

    It could be worth millions.

    Or, you could be wrong about the year. :ahem

    But definitely one of the two. ;)



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  13. #173
    Les Paul Forum Member DaveTV's Avatar
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    Re: Calling all 1968 / 1969 Les Paul Owners.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stumbler
    I took another look in the neck pup cavity of my 69 Custom.

    The tenon of this 3 piece neck protrudes maybe 1/16" into a space that is about
    1 1/2" x 1/8" and about 1/2" deep. It still looks like a short tenon to me.

    Repeat - it is definitely a 69 Custom.
    It may look like a short tenon to you, but it's not.

    If you can see it, it's not short, by definition.


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  14. #174
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    Re: Calling all 1968 / 1969 Les Paul Owners.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveTV

    You would have the only one in existence.

    It could be worth millions.

    ...but beings I'm such a nice guy I'd sell it to you for $500,000 ...and also include a late 70's protector case without lining

  15. #175
    All Access/Backstage Pass Wilko's Avatar
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    Re: Calling all 1968 / 1969 Les Paul Owners.

    Mr Giant,
    I may have added o the confusion on your guitar earlier in this thread by saying it was a 69. I missed the short tenon part and was using the three piece neck and such to say it wasn't a 68 more than trying to say it was a 69.

    The odds of have ing a 1-piece body with a non-center seamed top are very slim. Having a 1-piece body with a short tenon is impossible (in 1969)

    In looking again at what you posted, I found something quite odd about your guitar.

    It doesn't exist! :wha

  16. #176
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    Re: Calling all 1968 / 1969 Les Paul Owners.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wilko
    Mr Giant,
    I may have added o the confusion on your guitar earlier in this thread by saying it was a 69. I missed the short tenon part and was using the three piece neck and such to say it wasn't a 68 more than trying to say it was a 69.

    The odds of have ing a 1-piece body with a non-center seamed top are very slim. Having a 1-piece body with a short tenon is impossible (in 1969)

    In looking again at what you posted, I found something quite odd about your guitar.

    It doesn't exist! :wha
    ?
    Last edited by gentlegiant; 08-14-05 at 01:58 PM.

  17. #177
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    Re: Calling all 1968 / 1969 Les Paul Owners.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wilko

    It doesn't exist! :wha
    ..here's a shot of the guitar that doesn't exist



    ..funny thing was Philtone did a wonderful fretjob on it last year ...
    Last edited by gentlegiant; 08-14-05 at 01:58 PM.

  18. #178
    All Access/Backstage Pass Wilko's Avatar
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    Re: Calling all 1968 / 1969 Les Paul Owners.

    Sorry, I thought I was making an obvious joke. Mostly about the levels of "trainspotting" that we do here.

    We all make mistakes now and again about some of the features and which is called what or whatever.

    I did want to get this cleared up so Moonweasel's data would be right.

    With that in mind, you seem to have a '69 Les Paul custom with a three-piece neck, transitional tenon, one-piece body, no dot logo, etc.

    Cool guitar either way.

  19. #179
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    Re: Calling all 1968 / 1969 Les Paul Owners.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wilko
    Sorry, I thought I was making an obvious joke. Mostly about the levels of "trainspotting" that we do here.
    Wilko ...maybe I read something into your post that wasn't your intent ...my apologies to you ....right ..my guitar is what appears to be an early '69 ...I seem to recall John Catton posting three tenon pics ...one was the short ..the other transitional and the last a long tenon pic ....my guitar is similar to what Stumbler described above and also what I seem to recall John calling a short tenon ...it couldn't possibly get much shorter as it has a very minute protrusion into the cavity ..maybe 1/32" ...again my apologies

  20. #180
    Les Paul Forum Member Rev.WillieVK's Avatar
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    Re: Calling all 1968 / 1969 Les Paul Owners.

    1969 GT with 'transitional' tenon:



    FWIW 1-piece body, 3(5)-piece neck, no volute or Made In USA stamp.

  21. #181
    Burst Detective! zorglub!'s Avatar
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    Re: Calling all 1968 / 1969 Les Paul Owners.

    Quote Originally Posted by zorglub!
    Experts, I have taken these pics to help you trying to clarify what year is mine, I am lost...

    I have been trying to photograph the 3-piece neck but it seems very hard! However I have taken this pic where you can clearly see it is 3-piece:



    Also, what kind of volute is this?



    An lastly I would like to show you the extra maple layer between the top and the mahogany:





    I hope you enjoy these stripped wood pics as I do!
    So... did anybody concluded about my Custom? I would really appreciate your opinions about it... What year does it seem to be? What kind of volute is it? Thanks!

  22. #182
    Les Paul Forum Member DaveTV's Avatar
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    Re: Calling all 1968 / 1969 Les Paul Owners.

    Quote Originally Posted by gentlegiant
    my guitar is similar to what Stumbler described above and also what I seem to recall John calling a short tenon ...it couldn't possibly get much shorter as it has a very minute protrusion into the cavity ..maybe 1/32" ...again my apologies
    If you can see it all, it's not a short tenon.

    Your guitar has a transitional tenon.

    Thank you.



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  23. #183
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    Re: Calling all 1968 / 1969 Les Paul Owners.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveTV
    If you can see it all, it's not a short tenon.

    Your guitar has a transitional tenon.

    Thank you.

    ..the picture that the Rev posted above and has called a transitional tenon is not the same type as on my guitar.
    Thank you.

  24. #184
    Les Paul Forum Member moonweasel's Avatar
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    Re: Calling all 1968 / 1969 Les Paul Owners.

    Quote Originally Posted by toxpert
    Case Question...

    I have the original form-fitted case for my '68 that needs one item repaired.

    The case is overall 'good' condition except for handle - this was lost years ago.

    Who/where is the best source for obtaining a accurate replacement? The handle mounts are in good condition.. it's just the handle that is no longer with us. Removing and reusing the handle retaining pins looks very feasible.

    Note... just like my Lifton case from the '50s.. this '68 case is really loose fitting. For day-to-day transport, I purchased a new black alligator Gibson case - these newer cases provide multiple points for the neck as well as for body support and keep the guitar from sliding around in the case. I am really quite impressed with this latest evolution of the Gibson case.

    Toxpert,

    Wish I could help you, but I dont really know. Two options: just check all parts for something similar to an original. (If you need a good picture of a early 68, form fitted case handle, Ive got one of those cases and would be happy to post a picture.)

    The other option might be to find a trashed original case and steal its handle. Just a thought.

  25. #185
    Les Paul Forum Member moonweasel's Avatar
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    Re: Calling all 1968 / 1969 Les Paul Owners.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wilko
    Mr Giant,

    The odds of have ing a 1-piece body with a non-center seamed top are very slim. Having a 1-piece body with a short tenon is impossible (in 1969)
    Wilko,

    I have several guitars in the database that are non-center seamed, yet one piece bodies (assuming data is true, etc).

    They appear only to be 8xx,xxx guitars. I have an 844xxx GT. And two Customs, 835xxx and 889xxx.

    835 has 52nd wk of 68 pots, the other two have 33rd and 34th week pots of 69. All listed as Tt tenons.

  26. #186
    Les Paul Forum Member moonweasel's Avatar
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    Re: Calling all 1968 / 1969 Les Paul Owners.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wilko

    I did want to get this cleared up so Moonweasel's data would be right.
    Which, I appreciate. Its nice to have you "on the case", Wilko.

  27. #187
    Les Paul Forum Member moonweasel's Avatar
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    Re: Calling all 1968 / 1969 Les Paul Owners.

    Quote Originally Posted by zorglub!
    So... did anybody concluded about my Custom? I would really appreciate your opinions about it... What year does it seem to be? What kind of volute is it? Thanks!
    Zorglub,

    Wow, I thought I had posted about yours already. Sorry! It has all the right features to be a mid to late 69 Custom. Probably late 69. Thats an early volute. They became much sharper and more pronounced in the early to mid 70s (Im not sure about the dates of volute evolution to the late 70s variant, other than my brothers 77 has the modern one.)

  28. #188
    Les Paul Forum Member Stumbler's Avatar
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    Re: Calling all 1968 / 1969 Les Paul Owners.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveTV
    It may look like a short tenon to you, but it's not.

    If you can see it, it's not short, by definition.
    If 1/16" or maybe even 1/32" isn't short, then what is? Who defined a short tenon and where.

    Does any one have a pic of a Custom' s short tenon?

    Mine does kinda look like that one in the GT that Rev posted, although that onw protrudes more than the one in my Custom

    Uh ... I'm confused.

  29. #189
    Les Paul Forum Member Stumbler's Avatar
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    Re: Calling all 1968 / 1969 Les Paul Owners.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wilko
    If you can see any evidence of a tenon in the pickup cavity, it's not a "short tenon"

    As I posted earlier, a short tenon DOES NOT enter the cavity at all. If it's not long, and you can see it in the cavity, it's what we've been calling a "transitional tenon".

    Here's a short tenon in my '76 custom:

    Oh.

    I can't really tell what that tenon is from the photo, but it's completely different than my 69 Custom. And ... I definitely have a 3 piece neck, a One piece body, and a 3 piece maple top. Weird huh?

  30. #190
    Les Paul Forum Member Stumbler's Avatar
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    Re: Calling all 1968 / 1969 Les Paul Owners.

    Hey Gary. (giant) It looks like we have transitional tenons on those 69's I'm about ready to throw in the towel and switch my data to "tt" from short. Nice to know what I've got after 36 years.

  31. #191
    All Access/Backstage Pass Wilko's Avatar
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    Re: Calling all 1968 / 1969 Les Paul Owners.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stumbler
    Oh.

    I can't really tell what that tenon is from the photo, but it's completely different than my 69 Custom. And ... I definitely have a 3 piece neck, a One piece body, and a 3 piece maple top. Weird huh?
    Right you are. In my pic you can't see any tenon. That's why it's called short. A short tenon is so short it doesn't even reach the pickup cavity.

    Short = does not enter the cavity at all. That's a hell of a lot shorter than 1/32 into the cavity, past the neck.

    Transitional = goes all the way past the neck and into the pickup cavity about 1/32' - 1/4"

    Long = Goes in to the cavity for another 3/4" or so.

    The difference between a long and transitional are negligible and don't make any difference at all to the sound/feel of the guitar. Same cannot be said about the "short" tenon, which as evidenced by photos, could be seen as a weak link of the tone of the guitar.

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  33. #193
    Les Paul Forum Member Red Baron's Avatar
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    Re: Calling all 1968 / 1969 Les Paul Owners.

    Quote Originally Posted by toxpert
    Case Question...

    I have the original form-fitted case for my '68 that needs one item repaired.

    The case is overall 'good' condition except for handle - this was lost years ago.

    Who/where is the best source for obtaining a accurate replacement? The handle mounts are in good condition.. it's just the handle that is no longer with us. Removing and reusing the handle retaining pins looks very feasible.

    Note... just like my Lifton case from the '50s.. this '68 case is really loose fitting. For day-to-day transport, I purchased a new black alligator Gibson case - these newer cases provide multiple points for the neck as well as for body support and keep the guitar from sliding around in the case. I am really quite impressed with this latest evolution of the Gibson case.
    LOL my original handle is in good condition but one of the mounts is missing so it's currently held together with a piece of wire wrapped around it.

    I don't trust it at all so I went out recently and bought a Hiscox case... great case btw

  34. #194
    Les Paul Forum Member Stumbler's Avatar
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    Re: Calling all 1968 / 1969 Les Paul Owners.

    Moon - it's like Rev's but really only 1/32 or 1/16 protrusion. It's hardly noticable. So .... based on the above, I hearby switch my 69 Custom 835xxx tenon def to .... (drumroll please)

    transitional tenon "tt"

    BTW - I can post pix, it's just that my camera is old and I don't think I could get a clear shot of it. I'll try tomorrow morning when the light is good and see if it will show.

    Thanks for bearing with me boys ...

    BTW ... my Custom kicks ass. Must be that transitional tenon ;)

  35. #195
    Les Paul Forum Member Stumbler's Avatar
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    Re: Calling all 1968 / 1969 Les Paul Owners.

    Shouldn't we all be watching Disney or America's Funniest Videos or something now, instead of discussing the length of our tenons ... ?

  36. #196
    All Access/Backstage Pass Wilko's Avatar
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    Re: Calling all 1968 / 1969 Les Paul Owners.

    It can't any clearer than this:


  37. #197
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    Re: Calling all 1968 / 1969 Les Paul Owners.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stumbler
    Hey Gary. (giant) It looks like we have transitional tenons on those 69's I'm about ready to throw in the towel and switch my data to "tt" from short. Nice to know what I've got after 36 years.
    ...Hello Greg (stumbler) ...yeah, it appears from description we both have the very same identical SHORT tenon ..the bad thing is I was now under the impression mine was a one of a kind and worth a million $ ...now with you having an indentical guitar maybe only $500,000 ..oh well ...I only paid $2,850 and really love my guitar no matter how it's constructed ...btw, I just got a new computer and haven't loaded all my info ( Kodak cam etc. ) ...sometime this week I will take a pic and email it to someone here if they would host and post it

  38. #198
    Les Paul Forum Member Stumbler's Avatar
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    Re: Calling all 1968 / 1969 Les Paul Owners.

    OK ... that cinches it. My 69 Custom is transitional I've seen that graphic before but it only showed short and long. Cool!

    Thanks Wilko. You're a patient man. I, for one, always appreciate your posts and insights. You need to come to the Greensboro jam this fall ;)

  39. #199
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    Re: Calling all 1968 / 1969 Les Paul Owners.

    Wilko ..ok from the last pic you posted ..I get it ! ...I will take a pic this week still

  40. #200
    Les Paul Forum Member Stumbler's Avatar
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    Re: Calling all 1968 / 1969 Les Paul Owners.

    I'm Al ... you might be thinking of those pix of me and Greg Germino that rayh took at the last Greensboro jam. Whatever. We're part of the late 60's Custom mafia here at LPF. Actually, my Custom is worth 1 BILLION dollars baahhhaahhaaa ....

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