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  1. #121

  2. #122
    Les Paul Forum Member moonweasel's Avatar
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    Re: Calling all 1968 / 1969 Les Paul Owners.

    Here's the question list again so people dont have to scroll back so far to read them:

    0)Custom / GT
    1)Headstock size and does it have a dotted 'i' (headstock size doesnt apply to LPC)
    2)first three digits of serial only please.
    3)neck: 1 or 3 pc. (volute: y/n)
    4)body: 1 or 3 pc
    5)center seam top: y/n
    6)P-90 / MHB (GTs only)
    7)tenon: lt/tt
    8)pot codes
    9)any other info my stupid ass has forgotten to ask. [crown inlay, sliver of maple above mahogany for early 69s, routing style, case style, etc]

    Once again, if you arent sure about something or just dont feel like looking for pot codes [etc], just leave it blank or put a "?".

  3. #123

    Re: Calling all 1968 / 1969 Les Paul Owners.

    OK, I want to get in on this so I can figure out just what I've got.

    0)GT originally - stripped and refinished at some point with a horrible bile-colored stain, possibly with a mop.
    1)Large headstock; no dot
    2)897xxx; no Made in USA stamp
    3)3-pc. neck, with only the tiniest hint of a volute if you squint just right.
    4)3-pc. body
    5)looks like two seams on the top, neither anywhere near the center.
    6)MHB originally; I put in P-90s
    7)Not sure about tenon; will have to look again
    8)1376943
    9)n/a
    Last edited by Pete Cage; 08-09-05 at 08:00 PM. Reason: added info

  4. #124
    Les Paul Forum Member moonweasel's Avatar
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    Re: Calling all 1968 / 1969 Les Paul Owners.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Cage
    OK, I want to get in on this so I can figure out just what I've got.

    0)GT originally - stripped and refinished at some point with a horrible bile-colored stain, possibly with a mop.

    ...

    9)n/a
    LOL. I love the line about the mop. Ive seen a few guitars like that myself.

    Pete, are you really sure youve got a one-piece neck? If you are, then your guitar is a strange one.

    Judging by your specs, (thanks btw), you have a late 69 Les Paul. Very cool.

    Late 69's without fail have three piece necks. Well, so far, thats what this thread is all about.

    Zorglubs (see above) seems, although pictures can be deceiving, to be one piece with a volute. Which I havent ever seen.

  5. #125
    Les Paul Forum Member Stumbler's Avatar
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    Re: Calling all 1968 / 1969 Les Paul Owners.

    deleted post

  6. #126
    Les Paul Forum Member
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    Re: Calling all 1968 / 1969 Les Paul Owners.

    Okay, here's mine in the updated format;
    0) GT
    1) Lg; No dot
    2) 844xxx
    3) 3 pc., no volute, no Made in U.S.A.
    4) 1 pc
    5) No
    6) MHB
    7) tt
    8) 1376934
    9) Rectangular case w/orange lining
    You can't really dust for vomit.

  7. #127
    Les Paul Forum Member Stumbler's Avatar
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    Re: Calling all 1968 / 1969 Les Paul Owners.

    [QUOTE=moonweasel]Here's the question list again so people dont have to scroll back so far to read them:

    0)Custom / GT
    1)Headstock size and does it have a dotted 'i' (headstock size doesnt apply to LPC)
    2)first three digits of serial only please.
    3)neck: 1 or 3 pc. (volute: y/n)
    4)body: 1 or 3 pc
    5)center seam top: y/n
    6)P-90 / MHB (GTs only)
    7)tenon: lt/tt
    8)pot codes
    9)any other info my stupid ass has forgotten to ask. [crown inlay, sliver of maple above mahogany for early 69s, routing style, case style, etc]
    QUOTE]



    Hey ... better late than never I suppose. And a 69 Custom reporting in:

    0) Custom from 1969
    1) typical Custom style headstock, no dot over the i in Gibson
    2) 835xxx pressed into the back of the headstock
    3) 3pc neck, no volute, no made in USA
    4) 1 pc body
    5) n, 3 pc top - I can just make out the seams
    6) n/a (big ass-whooping humbuckers)
    7) short tenon
    8) 68 pots code is 1376852
    9) other details:
    .022-400 DC Black Beauty caps with orange markings.
    2 patent number humbuckers - I've had the covers on and off over the years.
    TOM came with white hard plastic inserts.
    tailpiece is very light "pot metal" where most of the gold plating has flaked off to show black/alum color.
    black witch hat knobs with gold top insets for VOL. and TONE.
    originally had tiny "fretless wonder" frets, but redone with Martin wire.
    ebony fingerboard is jet black with hardly any pores noticable.
    case was small black violin shaped with yellow lining.
    I bought it from Manny's on 48th St. in NYC in Dec. '69 so I know it well.

  8. #128
    Les Paul Forum Member
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    Re: Calling all 1968 / 1969 Les Paul Owners.

    0)Custom / GT
    1)Headstock size and does it have a dotted 'i' (headstock size doesnt apply to LPC)
    2)first three digits of serial only please.
    3)neck: 1 or 3 pc. (volute: y/n)
    4)body: 1 or 3 pc
    5)center seam top: y/n
    6)P-90 / MHB (GTs only)
    7)tenon: lt/tt
    8)pot codes
    9)any other info my stupid ass has forgotten to ask. [crown inlay, sliver of maple above mahogany for early 69s, routing style, case style, etc]
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------0) GT 1)big headstock, not dotted i 2)558 3)1 pc. neck, no volute 4)1 pc. body 5)? 6)routed, think it had p90 screw marks 7)?? 8) 12/68 9)LP shaped case..gold lining...and thanks again!!..poe

  9. #129
    Les Paul Forum Co-Owner Tom Wittrock's Avatar
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    Re: Calling all 1968 / 1969 Les Paul Owners.

    Don't forget, the rectangular case was the lower priced optional hardshell for this model. ;)
    Pauls to the walls!

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  10. #130
    Les Paul Forum Member Red Baron's Avatar
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    Re: Calling all 1968 / 1969 Les Paul Owners.

    Quote Originally Posted by TW59
    Don't forget, the rectangular case was the lower priced optional hardshell for this model. ;)
    That's an interesting point, I always thought there must have been change-over at some point (around early - mid '69) to the rectangular case.

  11. #131

  12. #132

    Re: Calling all 1968 / 1969 Les Paul Owners.

    >Pete, are you really sure youve got a one-piece neck? If you are, then your >guitar is a strange one.

    Well, by golly, I stand corrected. Your post inspired me to get the guitar under a really good light and under my bench magnifier, and I'll be darned if it isn't a 3-piece neck. The grain and color (and heavily-sanded refin glop) matched it up so well that it really did look like a single piece of wood. But I can now see the seams.

    I've edited my original posting. Thanks for helping me figure that one out.

    PC

  13. #133
    Les Paul Forum Co-Owner Tom Wittrock's Avatar
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    Re: Calling all 1968 / 1969 Les Paul Owners.

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Baron
    That's an interesting point, I always thought there must have been change-over at some point (around early - mid '69) to the rectangular case.
    I need to check all my period price lists. I remember one of the 68 price lists showed the Les Paul available with the formfit "Faultless" case, and the optional, lower priced rectangular case. Not sure how many years they were offered that way, but I know early Deluxes that came with the rectangular case, new.
    Pauls to the walls!

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  14. #134
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    Re: Calling all 1968 / 1969 Les Paul Owners.

    Moonweasel...resent the pictures to both email addresses...I'm pretty sure you'll get them now.

    Also, has anyone experienced what I did with my original ABR-1 bridge....it literally sagged in the middle and couldn't get the action right at all. I still have it, but replaced with a new Gibson piece, and it is clear my original had sagged to the point it was a flat radius at best.

    Someone posted that when the volume controls are at full a full 10, and then when you drop it back to 9 or so, the tone gets less bright...this is how they are wired up, as I noticed this from the time I bought it brand new in '69. I recently changed the pots/caps (but still have originals!) to the RSR electronics kit, and now the tone is independent of the volume...and there appears to be more tone flexibility than before.

  15. #135
    Les Paul Forum Member moonweasel's Avatar
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    Re: Calling all 1968 / 1969 Les Paul Owners.

    ABR's sag like crazy.

    My custom had three sagged, ruined ABR's in it when I found it. All were rusted and corroded beyond recognition as well.

  16. #136
    Les Paul Forum Member Red Baron's Avatar
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    Re: Calling all 1968 / 1969 Les Paul Owners.

    Quote Originally Posted by grazy
    Someone posted that when the volume controls are at full a full 10, and then when you drop it back to 9 or so, the tone gets less bright...this is how they are wired up, as I noticed this from the time I bought it brand new in '69.
    I've experienced this on most of my Les Paul's (including a '69 I used to own years ago) but not on my '68, the pots/caps appear to be originals as well, and it maintains clarity and tone as I lower the volume for either pickup.

  17. #137
    Les Paul Forum Member Fading Fast's Avatar
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    Re: Calling all 1968 / 1969 Les Paul Owners.

    0)Custom
    1)No dot on i
    2)889
    3)3 pc. neck, no volute
    4)1 pc. body, no evidence of laminate stripe.
    5)3 piece top with roughly even seams
    6)
    7)TT
    8)33rd week of 1969. Only one pot code visible, all wiring appears original.
    9)Holywood headstock veneer, early pantographed logo, nylon saddles (original bridge retired for fear of metal fatigue), lightweight tailpiece, witchhat knobs, non logo, arched lid case with gold lining.

  18. #138
    Les Paul Forum Co-Owner Tom Wittrock's Avatar
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    Re: Calling all 1968 / 1969 Les Paul Owners.

    Okay, briefly, here's the case scenario:
    1968 through mid 1971, the oblong case or the shaped case ["Faultless"].
    In late 71 a third hardshell was added [:wink] called a "shaped case", at the same price as the oblong [$60], while still offering the Faultless shaped case [$80].
    These three lasted through 1973, but in 1974 the only case offered was the Faultless shaped case.
    ;)
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  19. #139
    Les Paul Forum Member lanman's Avatar
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    Re: Calling all 1968 / 1969 Les Paul Owners.

    Quote Originally Posted by moonweasel
    GT for sure.

    To be honest and hopefully not offend anyone out there, but Ive never seen a burst refin on an Rx or any guitar that really has the "look".

    Just take a look at Wilko's gold top, that thing is f$%king gourgeous. Fantastic. (Its got its original GT still though, but RS's stuff looks pretty damned good.) Hell, I bet the RS guys could use Wilkos as a guide doing yours. If it matches the amount of wear you have on the back of course.

    Id bet Wilko would probably pony up a good high res shot for ya if you asked nicely. ;)

    PS - But then again, youve got a center seamed top, so a burst would look "right" in that respect.
    I agree about refins not having the "Look".

    I thought I'd post a few pictures of one of my 68's. I'll also post the details for the research project. My other two are in the shop and I'll post the info from them two next week sometime.

    This is a 68 one piece body and neck. It was refined 20 years ago apparently by a Violin manufacturer so it has aged nicely. I really like the transition color from the back to the top. It's a two piece center seam top that is definitely not a book match.....but looks great with the subtle burst.








    I originally bought this guitar to have it routed for PAFs and I was going to have it redone as a Gold Top as well. When I got it I fell in love with the finish and scraped the GT idea. I know most of you can relate to this......I can't seem to get myself to route this guitar! I've got the 62 PAFs ready to go.....and everytime I decide to take her in for the surgery.....my heart gets in the way! I think it's too pretty and plays fastastic as is. My brain has become totally resitant to customization when it comes to vintage guitars.

    The headstock does not appear to have ever been refined...yet there is no Les Paul Script or Crown.....any comments on this?



    I have never seen a 68 with the outer "cheater" rings on the pickups. I don't know if they are stock or not. I took them off.....the routing is perfect and the guitar really doesn't need them.....but I think they happen to look great on this guitar and if I took them off there would be 8 nail holes.

  20. #140
    Les Paul Forum Member lanman's Avatar
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    Re: Calling all 1968 / 1969 Les Paul Owners.

    1) 537XXX
    2) One Piece neck
    3) Gold Top
    4) P-90's
    5) 1 Piece body
    6) ???
    7) Center Seam
    8) 6850
    9) no dotted i
    10) Countoured yellow lined fitted case.

  21. #141
    All Access/Backstage Pass Wilko's Avatar
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    Re: Calling all 1968 / 1969 Les Paul Owners.

    Here's my pair. I think my burst has "the look", (if I do say so myself):


  22. #142
    Les Paul Forum Member Red Baron's Avatar
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    Re: Calling all 1968 / 1969 Les Paul Owners.

    lanman, I agree with you about those pickup rings being non-standard if it is indeed a '68, there's a couple of oddities with the headstock... no dotted "i" and the 50's style large tuner rings.
    Do you have the serial and a pic of the back of the headstock you can post?

  23. #143
    Les Paul Forum Member lanman's Avatar
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    Re: Calling all 1968 / 1969 Les Paul Owners.

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Baron
    lanman, I agree with you about those pickup rings being non-standard if it is indeed a '68, there's a couple of oddities with the headstock... no dotted "i" and the 50's style large tuner rings.
    Do you have the serial and a pic of the back of the headstock you can post?
    The Serial Number is 537540. It was Grovered at one time. These are not the original tuners.






    Let me know what you think!

  24. #144
    All Access/Backstage Pass Wilko's Avatar
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    Re: Calling all 1968 / 1969 Les Paul Owners.

    Those are the right style tuners for a 68. You even have the right bushings on there.

  25. #145
    Les Paul Forum Member lanman's Avatar
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    Re: Calling all 1968 / 1969 Les Paul Owners.

    Hey Wilko....that is a killer pair of LPs you got there! Your refin top definitely has the "look". Did you convert them or did you get them that way? What P/Us are you running?

  26. #146
    Les Paul Forum Member lanman's Avatar
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    Re: Calling all 1968 / 1969 Les Paul Owners.

    It's kinda odd also on my LP that it has the small headstock with no dotted "i" as well.

  27. #147
    All Access/Backstage Pass Wilko's Avatar
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    Re: Calling all 1968 / 1969 Les Paul Owners.

    Quote Originally Posted by lanman
    Hey Wilko....that is a killer pair of LPs you got there! Your refin top definitely has the "look". Did you convert them or did you get them that way? What P/Us are you running?
    Them's my babies.

    The burst has PAFs and the goldtop is now loaded with Antiquities in the mid 8k range.

    I did the pickup job for the goldtop and the burst was already done when I got it. It was a goldtop but I didn't like the top. Had a weird color and sheen to it. Looked like an odd overspray or something. had ugly kind of greening so I bursted it.

  28. #148
    Les Paul Forum Member Red Baron's Avatar
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    Re: Calling all 1968 / 1969 Les Paul Owners.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wilko
    Those are the right style tuners for a 68. You even have the right bushings on there.
    I meant those black ones underneath... would they be from the grovers?

  29. #149
    Les Paul Forum Member lanman's Avatar
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    Re: Calling all 1968 / 1969 Les Paul Owners.

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Baron
    I meant those black ones underneath... would they be from the grovers?
    Believe it or not, that's just an optical illusion. Those are not black bushings.....rather just the rings of the former from the Grovers. After looking at the photo, I had to go take a second look.....cause it sure looks like there are black washers on there!

  30. #150
    Les Paul Forum Member wernerg's Avatar
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    Re: Calling all 1968 / 1969 Les Paul Owners.

    What's the deal with some early '68 I seem to have seen with black pickup covers over P-90's. I seem to recall collecting pictures of Les Pauls inthe early 80's and seeing two artist with what appear to be late '60's GTs with black plastic:

    www.wernerg.com/deus.gif

    This guy Adriano Celentano - never heard any of his music (probably a good thing, too!), but his guitar intrigued me (sorry about the bad pic, but if you know the artist, you will remember the guitar)

    www.wernerg.com/dudek.jpg

    Then of course, Les Dudek - the cover of this album hides the main body of the guitar, but the black plastic is there. Or maybe these aren't GT's?

    If certain '68 GTs did have black plastic, I am sure moonweasel would like to know the serial # range...

  31. #151
    Les Paul Forum Member moonweasel's Avatar
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    Re: Calling all 1968 / 1969 Les Paul Owners.

    Quote Originally Posted by wernerg

    If certain '68 GTs did have black plastic, I am sure moonweasel would like to know the serial # range...
    Yes, I would! Thanks.

    But, pickup covers are easy to change. There would be no way to validate that they ever were black to start with. My guess, seeing as how P-90'ed GT's never had black covers, is that the guy just like the way they looked better.

  32. #152
    Les Paul Forum Member moonweasel's Avatar
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    Re: Calling all 1968 / 1969 Les Paul Owners.

    Quote Originally Posted by lanman
    It's kinda odd also on my LP that it has the small headstock with no dotted "i" as well.
    Dont take this as fact, but I seem to remember reading somewhere on this site that sometimes the dot was just left off on some 50s guitars.

    Our database shows another 537xxx that does have its dot.

    Maybe Mr. TW59 will tune in and let us know.

  33. #153

  34. #154
    Les Paul Forum Co-Owner Tom Wittrock's Avatar
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    Re: Calling all 1968 / 1969 Les Paul Owners.

    Quote Originally Posted by moonweasel
    Dont take this as fact, but I seem to remember reading somewhere on this site that sometimes the dot was just left off on some 50s guitars.

    Our database shows another 537xxx that does have its dot.

    Maybe Mr. TW59 will tune in and let us know.
    I never paid attention to the Gibson logo. I was always looking at other aspects [the top :wink] when just looking. When playing, I can't read the headstock. ;)

    Lanman's headstock sure looks refinned to me. :wink2
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  35. #155
    All Access/Backstage Pass Wilko's Avatar
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    Re: Calling all 1968 / 1969 Les Paul Owners.

    Quote Originally Posted by moonweasel
    Yes, I would! Thanks.

    But, pickup covers are easy to change. There would be no way to validate that they ever were black to start with. My guess, seeing as how P-90'ed GT's never had black covers, is that the guy just like the way they looked better.
    I've seen other pics that look like black (even an old Van Halen pic) but what you are seeing is the covers removed. Les Dudek, Mike Campbell (with Tom Petty) have pics taken that clearly show that the covers are removed leaving the appearance of a black pickup.

    BTW, My 1968s all had logo dotted "i"

  36. #156

    Re: Calling all 1968 / 1969 Les Paul Owners.

    Just watched a 1972 Dracula (dated rubbish) movie and in one of the scenes there's a band called Stoneground playing in the backround at a (groovy) party. The second guitarist had a goldtop with black P90's. I remember seeing Stoneground when they came to the UK about that time, anyone remember the guitar player or the band, there might be some more pics somewhere of the guitar.

  37. #157
    Burst Detective! zorglub!'s Avatar
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    Re: Calling all 1968 / 1969 Les Paul Owners.

    Quote Originally Posted by moonweasel
    Zorglubs (see above) seems, although pictures can be deceiving, to be one piece with a volute. Which I havent ever seen.
    Experts, I have taken these pics to help you trying to clarify what year is mine, I am lost...

    I have been trying to photograph the 3-piece neck but it seems very hard! However I have taken this pic where you can clearly see it is 3-piece:



    Also, what kind of volute is this?



    An lastly I would like to show you the extra maple layer between the top and the mahogany:





    I hope you enjoy these stripped wood pics as I do!

  38. #158
    Les Paul Forum Member keef's Avatar
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    Re: Calling all 1968 / 1969 Les Paul Owners.

    A few days ago someone posted this three pickup Custom for sale - he claims it is a '69, # 500071 stamped in the headstock....rewound pickups, headstock repair. Each pickup seems to have the same amount of plating wear...FWIW
    Never heard of 3 pup guitars for this era....knobs are wrong, binding looks too white...what could it be?

    Last edited by keef; 08-11-05 at 07:05 AM.

  39. #159
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    Re: Calling all 1968 / 1969 Les Paul Owners.

    1) 800

    2) n/a

    3) custom

    5) n/a

    6) long

    7) n/a

    8) changed

  40. #160
    Les Paul Forum Member moonweasel's Avatar
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    Re: Calling all 1968 / 1969 Les Paul Owners.

    Quote Originally Posted by keef
    A few days ago someone posted this three pickup Custom for sale - he claims it is a '69, # 500071 stamped in the headstock....rewound pickups, headstock repair. Each pickup seems to have the same amount of plating wear...FWIW
    Never heard of 3 pup guitars for this era....knobs are wrong, binding looks too white...what could it be?
    Keef,

    That serial was used in the 70s as well. If its a three pickup original, its probably from the 70s.

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