• Guys, we've spent considerable money converting the Les Paul Forum to this new XenForo platform, and we have ongoing monthly operating expenses. THE "DONATIONS" TAB IS NOW WORKING, AND WE WOULD APPRECIATE ANY DONATIONS YOU CAN MAKE TO KEEP THE LES PAUL FORUM GOING! Thank you!

who prefers grovers over klusons and why?

seishin

New member
Joined
May 26, 2004
Messages
257
i am comtemplating changing out the stock Kluson tuning gears (gibson deluxe) on my Lester for some Grovers and thought i would get a consensus from our esteemed members as to if it is worth the effort and expense ...
 

Mainah

Active member
Joined
Jul 9, 2004
Messages
1,083
Count me in as preferring the Grovers. It's probably as much a matter of aesthetics as anything (I love the way they look), but there's no denying that the new 18:1 Rotomatics are a lot "smoother" than the stock Grover-made Gibson Deluxe tuners. That, combined with my distaste for the appearance of plastic tuning keys, was enough to make me want to switch. FWIW, on the two LP Deluxe reissues that I installed the Rotomatics on, they were a drop-in fit (no drilling or reaming required). I also had no problems with the appearance of the unused upper set screw holes that were left exposed with the Rotomatics in place (looks old school). ;)
 

led zep fan

Banned
Joined
Jul 4, 2003
Messages
4,778
I too prefer Grovers to the RI Klusons, but I like the older Grovers, from the 70's era. I haven't quite yet swapped my klusons for grovers on my R8 because I haven't really found the right ones yet.
 
Joined
Feb 27, 2003
Messages
110
i like the grovers more as well, the only reason i would see that you would want to change was for an appearance thing, beacuse a properly setup guitar will not get out of tune.
 

gitRhero

New member
Joined
Jan 27, 2004
Messages
119
Grovers look much better IMHO.
And they work better of course....

LP_headstock.jpg
 

seishin

New member
Joined
May 26, 2004
Messages
257
has anyone routed out the headstck ones for grovers, then wanted to go back to klusons ...?
 

Markster

Formerly markeymark
Joined
May 29, 2003
Messages
757
seishin said:
has anyone routed out the headstck ones for grovers, then wanted to go back to klusons ...?
All parts sells bushings for that. I'd never switch back, but I quit saying: "Never say never."
 

Gold Tone

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 2, 2002
Messages
6,825
There are conversion bushings all over the place but they all have that horrible wide edge. Its loks clownish.

DMC used to have the conversion bushings with the proper, cool, narrow slanted edge. Don't think you can get those anymore. I know Steve at Pigtail has the right ones now as well..........I think he is the only one.
 

fretwire

Active member
Joined
May 21, 2003
Messages
1,427
I've seen where Grover has a "Vintage Series" tuner that has the same case and footprint as the old Klusons, has a 14:1 ratio, and comes with plastic or metal keys. Has anyone tried these? Are they more stable than the Klusons or are they basically the same animal?
 

Hetfieldinn

Les Paul Froum Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2004
Messages
1,234
It sounds like you are talking about the Grover Vintage Deluxe 136 series. I was going to buy a set of those for a new Standard I picked up. Roy at RS told me that they had a wider post, and drilling was required. Not wanting to do any drilling on my new git, I decided not to get them. He then told me that Gotoh has a set coming out soon that is a direct replacement for the Gibson Deluxe tuners, but that they come in nickel.
 

Heritage 80

New member
Joined
Jan 10, 2002
Messages
7,000
Put me down for Grovers. I like the feel of the "kidney beans" as well as the (to me) smoother action.
 

Cream Fan

Active member
Joined
May 1, 2003
Messages
2,695
I love Grovers, too, but be warned, they will also add about a quarter pound to the weight of your guitar.
 

moonweasel

New member
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Messages
9,427
I love the function of Grovers but hate the look and weight. My 59 jr has them, and they make using a strap a little annoying. They are so bulky.

Ive said it before, having Grovers on a Les Paul is like a pretty girl with braces.
 

Joe Ganzler

Active member
Joined
Jul 18, 2001
Messages
6,911
Time for the Ganz to "weigh in" on this topic, no pun intended! Stock Klusons (at least the old originals) WITH bushings and screws weigh exactly 5.5 oz. The "new" Grovers with same weigh 9.75 oz. Vintage '58-'62 era Grovers, which are smaller in EVERY direction, weigh exactly 9.0 oz. for a 3.5 oz. increase in weight. The old Grovers (Pat. Pending/USA) are beautiful little machines - each one is like a piece of jewelry! The castings are sharp and well-defined; whatever they're made of emits a luscious sonic "tink" when tapped, vs. the dead "thunk" that the new POS reissue Grovers make. I upgraded my '01 R8 Authentic with the vintage Grovers - not only do they LOOK so much better, since they're scaled down in every direction, but they certainly seemed to add something sonically over the reissue Grovers. Not sure if I would have removed Klusons to add them, but since my Historic already was set up for them (Stock on '01 R8 Authentics) I'm glad to have upgraded to vintage. They're kinda hard to come by, as I think most of 'em got shitcanned in the '90's, when everyone went BACK to Klusons. Here's a headstock shot, and the requisite "money shot" - to preanswer the questions, those are Timbucker Zebras, original gold bonnet knobs, and DMC switchring/crown nut/original switch tip, and "mystery/UK p'up rings:

2907_p40571.jpg

2907_p40570.jpg
 
Last edited:

fiddleback

Les Paul Froum Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2002
Messages
218
Mainah said:
but there's no denying that the new 18:1 Rotomatics are a lot "smoother" than the stock Grover-made Gibson Deluxe tuners.

actually, the stock "gibson delux" are gotoh... :bonk
 

Mainah

Active member
Joined
Jul 9, 2004
Messages
1,083
fiddleback said:
actually, the stock "gibson delux" are gotoh... :bonk

Well, that's certainly possible, but I've heard from people far more knowledgeable than myself on the issue that the current Gibson Deluxe tuners are actually Grover Vintage 135 Series. Just so we're on the same page, I'm talking about the Kluson-style tuners as found on Standards, Classics, etc. with the 10mm screw-in bushings. It certainly seemed reasonable to me that Gibson would go that route, as they also use Grover Rotomatics on Customs, 335s, and several other models. I would welcome definitive proof either way from anyone who can provide it. :wha

Ganz--that has got to be the nicest top of any '01 R8 Authentic I have ever seen! Please do drop me a line if you ever consider parting with it... :ahem
 
Last edited:

Litcrit

New member
Joined
May 9, 2002
Messages
5,990
Joe Ganzler said:
. They're kinda hard to come by, as I think most of 'em got shitcanned in the '90's, when everyone went BACK to Klusons. ]


Not everyone. I'm happy to buy old guitars with Grovers because that's how I prefer them. I'm not going to route out any old guitars for them (like I used to) but I'm not switching any of the converted ones back to Klusons.

PRO players, guys who actually use their instruments to make their living have already voted. Look at the pictures; the vast majority who play Gibsons were using GROVERS and SCHALLERS. They weren't hoodwinked, they understood that BETTER tuners make for a more comfortable and relaxed gig.

When you're on the bandstand and you need to tune up, most players prefer the BEST tuning machines, with the smoothest action, high ratio, better machining and better overall quality. Who wants to fight a fidgety slipping low-ratio tuner? Not me.

The only issue is with neck heavy guitars (some SGs) where a little extra weight on the stock actually tips the balance. With LPs, ES guitars, Jazz guitars (ever try to tune a HEAVY jazz strings with crappy tuners? NOT fun!) it's not a problem.

Oh, one more issue: FUNCTIONALITY over time. Compare a set of 40 year old Klusons with a set of 40 year old Grovers. Guess which set actually STILL WORKS (with NO maintenance).
 

MikeSlub

Administrator
Joined
Jul 15, 2001
Messages
15,166
Joe Ganzler said:
Here's a headstock shot, and the requisite "money shot" - to preanswer the questions, those are Timbucker Zebras, original gold bonnet knobs, and DMC switchring/crown nut/original switch tip, and "mystery/UK p'up rings:

2907_p40571.jpg

2907_p40570.jpg

Hey Joe - an AWESOME guitar! Thanks for sharing the pictures! :bug :dude :salude :wail
 
Top