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Is this a '68 or '69??

zorglub!

Burst Detective!
Joined
Aug 13, 2003
Messages
5,230
Guys, can you help me with mine? Here are the features:
+ Serial number 907XXX
+ Custom Ebony
+ Square wire channel (height 2cms, width 1,5cms)
+ 3 piece maple top
+ 3 piece mahogany neck
+ Sandwich body
+ Narrow binding
+ Extra maple layer between maple top and mahogany body
+ No "i" dot in Gibson logo
+ "b" and "o" open in Gibson logo
+ No "Made in USA"
 

Wilko

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Mar 11, 2002
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20,853
zorglub! said:
Guys, can you help me with mine? Here are the features:
+ Serial number 907XXX
+ Custom Ebony
+ Square wire channel (height 2cms, width 1,5cms)
+ 3 piece maple top
+ 3 piece mahogany neck
+ Sandwich body
+ Narrow binding
+ Extra maple layer between maple top and mahogany body
+ No "i" dot in Gibson logo
+ "b" and "o" open in Gibson logo
+ No "Made in USA"

Volute?

I'd say yours is 69-70
 

moonweasel

New member
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Jan 20, 2004
Messages
9,427
Stumbler said:
Hey moon - how did you find out what week it shipped?

A very nice customer service rep at Gibson found it in the shipping logs.

Kind of funny, this was the second time in Gibson's history that Customs changed WELL after Standards. From what I understand, a few LP Customs shipped as late as 1961.
 

rays44

Active member
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Jul 24, 2001
Messages
2,911
Wilko said:
I just got back in...

Serial numbers are surprisingly accurate in that they can say which years most numbers ARE NOT. In the case of a number being 67, 68, or 69 (are there any that broad?) we know it can't be a 67, so that's ruled out. 1969 features with a poss. 68 number mean it's a 68. Pretty safe.

1968 Week 52 pots could only show up in a 1969 guitar.

According to Gruhn's list a 558012 to 567400 number is only 1969. Pretty accurate.

That cavity rout has been described well. All of 1968 and into Jan 69 have all straight routed cavities. Features started changing in early 69 with introduction of "cross banding" bodies. First in 69 with the small layer right under the top, then it moved to the middle of the body. Small headstocks on standards ended in January. I've got the first 1969 serial number (according to Gruhn's list) and it's a standard with a small headstock. I've only seen or heard of one other small headstock 69.

Wilko, I just had a look at my cavity and the walls are straight with no step. Again, it has all the '68 features ( dotted i, 1 pc. neck, 1 pc. body with centerseam top, long tenion, nylon saddles and small headstock) with the only exception being the seriel number. You're absolutely right, '67 is obviously out of the question. I have heard many times of seriel numbers from the period being absolutely wrong, although I will clarify that I am no expert. The cavity route seems to be just another indication of it being a '68. Either that or I'm just hopelessly stubborn :bonk I welcome your expertise.
Ray
 

Wilko

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So you've got a straight sided cavity rout? no sloped inboard side. A cavity cut before the maple was glued on? That's a 68 feature, as is the center seamed two piece top. That's cool.

Small headstock on a custom?! WTF? The Headstocks on customs are all large. That's why they got large on the standard. So Gibson only had to cut one shape of neck.

Sounds like one that went out before the changes in '69. All 68 features in early '69. Cool guitar.
 

rays44

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Joined
Jul 24, 2001
Messages
2,911
Sorry, my bad on the headstock. I don't have any later customs to campare to and I had heard there was a slight size change. I compared it to my '56 custom and they matched in size, although the flair right above the nut is quite different. I assumed if it matched the '56 in size that it was "small". :bonk Oh well, live and learn. Many thanks guys.
 

325-at-2pm

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Oct 29, 2002
Messages
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FWIW:

I know that I've said this before, but I think that these 1968 to early 1969 Les Paul Customs are so cool because they were built 7-8 years after the last originals, built in the same plant, by many of the same people, using very close to the same specs......

:dude :dude :dude
 

rays44

Active member
Joined
Jul 24, 2001
Messages
2,911
325-at-2pm said:
FWIW:

I know that I've said this before, but I think that these 1968 to early 1969 Les Paul Customs are so cool because they were built 7-8 years after the last originals, built in the same plant, by many of the same people, using very close to the same specs......

:dude :dude :dude

I certainly can't argue with that. I'm really enjoying this guitar the more I play it. Thanks for your help Greg. :salude
 

BigMikeD

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Jan 29, 2002
Messages
447
Hello Crawford, that is a beauty all right; it looks almost new! I think that the '68 L.P. reissue was introduced at Summer NAMM of that year, so if your pots are dated 32 week of '68 (late July—early August?), one would think that it was probly built in '68. However, the '69 style cavity rout confuses the matter. Either the pots sat around for three or four months before being installed in a guitar, which I think is unlikely, considering that the Les Paul model was not the only model in production; or could it be that Gibson started using that contstruction method earlier than '69? I don't know how the serial number sequence would influence this line of thought.
How is it that the binding has not yellowed so much? Is the switch-tip a machine head post?

Hey Moonweasel, I think that my '69 LPC, a Black Beauty/Fretless Wonder, #561xxx, was built very closely to the same time as yours. The only pot on which the date is legible reads 1376850, which is stamped on the bottom of the pot, not on the side as shown in Crawford's initial post. As I recall, I also took delivery of the guitar in early April of '69, and it exhibits mostly '68 specs:

—1 piece body, w/2 piece, center-seamed top.
—1 piece neck, no volute/made in USA stamp. No dotted i, open b&o, all letters connected in Gibson. Kluson style tuners (gold, no stamped lettering of any kind.)
—long neck tenon.
—Shelf in cavity rout.
—Sprague caps.
—Pat.# sticker Humbuckers
—Lightweight aluminum tailpiece (gold, now mostly flaked off), steel studs (gold, well worn) and bushings.
—ABR-1 bridge (gold) w/nylon saddles. (Recently replaced w/ new ABR-1 w/steel saddles.)
—Witch hat knobs

Hello 325@2pm, could it be that the bottom of the cap on your Lester is discolored and only resembles another piece of wood there; do you see it anywhere else? In your photo it does indeed look like another piece of wood, but I've never heard of this before, and I don't see any evidence of it in the pup routs of #561xxx. Which is not to say that it's not part of the construction of this guitar, only that I don't see it.
 

moonweasel

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Jan 20, 2004
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9,427
Big Mike D,

Concerning the extra wood on 325's Custom, it really is anothing piece of wood. It was discussed at some length in a thread a year or two ago.

I think something is fishy with the pot in the above guitar. Mine also has the date written on the bottom of the pot, not the side.

That is SOOOO cool that you are the original owner of your Custom. Our guitars sound like long lost brothers. :) Funny thing is that I am actually only the second owner of mine. Mine saw many years of service in French Quarter cajun bands. It actually smelled like crawfish boil when I first pulled it out of its case. (That and nasty case smell mixed together.)

Which case did you buy with yours? Mine has the 50s style (black w/orange lining.)

Also, do you remember how much yours cost? Just curious.

stinky1.jpg
 

BigMikeD

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Jan 29, 2002
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Moonweasel, yeah, long lost brothers—or cousins maybe, considering that mine was shipped directly to Chicago. I received the same style case—textured, black cover (tolex?), contoured top and orange lining, with the guitar. In fact, the buying of the case was just taken for granted by both the dealer and myself, it was never discussed, and when the guitar arrived, I just assumed that this was the standard issue case. I don't remember the retail cost of the guitar at the time, but I do remember that including tax, and with a strap (embossed on the leather end with the dealers name, address and phone #,which still resides in the case and is used regularly,) a cord and a handful of picks thrown in with the deal, it was about $475! And the dealer, from whom I'd already been purchasing all my gear for awhile, accepted $250 as a down-payment upon ordering the guitar from Gibson, along with a promise from me to pay off the balance in weekly payments of unspecified amounts of as much as I could afford. There was never any paper involved with the deal, it was made with a handshake. I'm sure that this is more than you probly wanted to know, but I tend to ramble on sometimes.
Do you know where I might find the thread that you mentioned, regarding that thin layer of maple? I'd be interested to learn more about it. Thanks and best regards.
 

moonweasel

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Jan 20, 2004
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Mike,

Anyone here could tell you, when it comes to this era Customs, there is no "more than I wanted to know"! Nothing is cooler to me than hearing the stories of guitar owners. Ill see if I cant find that thread for you. Maybe 325 can help too.
 

Crawford

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Feb 14, 2002
Messages
134
BigMikeD. said:
Hello Crawford, that is a beauty all right; it looks almost new! I think that the '68 L.P. reissue was introduced at Summer NAMM of that year, so if your pots are dated 32 week of '68 (late July—early August?), one would think that it was probly built in '68. However, the '69 style cavity rout confuses the matter. Either the pots sat around for three or four months before being installed in a guitar, which I think is unlikely, considering that the Les Paul model was not the only model in production; or could it be that Gibson started using that contstruction method earlier than '69? I don't know how the serial number sequence would influence this line of thought.
How is it that the binding has not yellowed so much? Is the switch-tip a machine head post?
I'm sure the toggle switch tip is wrong (probably from a Gretsch), but it was on the guitar when I got it and I think it looks kinda cool...

The binding looks whiter than it really is, but it has not yellow too much at all.

toggle.jpg
 
Last edited:

akkermanfan

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May 30, 2015
Messages
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You have to think that Gibson retained the 1968 LPC specs for at least 3 or 4 months into 1969 before they started making the changes.

The only other differences I'm aware of would be the dotted "i", and the possibility of an early 1969 having a very thin piece of maple laminated between the top and the body. You can see it on the pics of my unfinished 1969.

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/brainerd01@prodigy.net/detail?.dir=585b&.dnm=e714.jpg&.src=ph

:ahem :ahem :ahem
Hi 325-at-2pm, Do you still have (after all these years) your picture of the crossbanding to show please ? Thanks, akkermanfan
 

garywright

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Joined
Aug 17, 2002
Messages
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Hi 325-at-2pm, Do you still have (after all these years) your picture of the crossbanding to show please ? Thanks, akkermanfan

Join Date 10-29-02
Last Activity 08-30-13 01:22 AM

you may want to try email or a pm
 
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