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  1. #41
    Les Paul Forum Member ashbass's Avatar
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    Moonie,
    Why are you sooo angry about this? Are you just trying to up your postings by continuing to rag on the people who believe what their own hands tell them?

    You admit yourself that this "slinkier bending" effect can be obtained by raising the tailpiece. So if someone wants to keep the tailpiece flush to the body for what they consider to be increased sustain and have the slinky bending as well by wrapping the strings around the tailpiece, what are you whining about?

    Several posts have demonstrated from personal experiences that this works for some players. Have*you* tried it? What's *your* personal experience? Have you worked through Guild's tests above? Or are you just blowing a lot of hot air because you think that your opinion matters more than another player's feel?

    You are a bore, moonpie. Since so many of the long-time members have apparently left the forum for reasons of their own are you now trying to step up to fill in the forum's late lack of abrasive abuse? How about you keep your mouth shut unless you have something to contribute to a discussion. I'm embarrased for you, son. Take some time off and unplug for a while.

    'nuff said.

  2. #42
    Let me guess, you haven't tried it.

    It made a huge difference on my guitar, if you think i am lying well, thats not my problem.

    To the others that have done it and liked the results, I am with you.

  3. #43
    Originally posted by moonpie
    Hey, if all you want is easier bends and a slinkier feel, play light guage strings.
    But that's going to have far more drastic tonal consequences than wrapping/not wrapping. For anyone looking for a more comfortable feel (which is pretty subjective to each player, so, really, everybody else gets to sit down and shut up about it) without the tonal difference arising from lighter strings, the top-wrap is definitely a good move.

    I've done it on my SG. I've swapped it back & forth a couple of times, and I'm sold on it. In fact, I'm thinking about ditching the TP6 on the LPC -- which I actually really like otherwise (probably some kinda heinous heresy around here) -- in order to wrap that, too.
    Last edited by WJBIII; 12-15-03 at 02:33 PM.

  4. #44
    Les Paul Forum Member Dthraco's Avatar
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    Still have not changed strings yet, but here's a pic of what it looks like:


    I still like them wrapped. The bridge doesn't seemt o dig into my palm when I palm mute. Also, since the string ends are right there, it's easy to sweep the pick accross them for a cool effect.

  5. #45
    In the Zone/Backstage Pass moonpie's Avatar
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    Originally posted by ashbass
    Moonie,
    Why are you sooo angry about this? Are you just trying to up your postings by continuing to rag on the people who believe what their own hands tell them?

    You admit yourself that this "slinkier bending" effect can be obtained by raising the tailpiece. So if someone wants to keep the tailpiece flush to the body for what they consider to be increased sustain and have the slinky bending as well by wrapping the strings around the tailpiece, what are you whining about?

    Several posts have demonstrated from personal experiences that this works for some players. Have*you* tried it? What's *your* personal experience? Have you worked through Guild's tests above? Or are you just blowing a lot of hot air because you think that your opinion matters more than another player's feel?

    You are a bore, moonpie. Since so many of the long-time members have apparently left the forum for reasons of their own are you now trying to step up to fill in the forum's late lack of abrasive abuse? How about you keep your mouth shut unless you have something to contribute to a discussion. I'm embarrased for you, son. Take some time off and unplug for a while.

    'nuff said.
    Hey, you pegged me :dude That's me to a T.
    What makes you think I'm angry? I'm on medication to prevent that.

    A lot of what I say is tongue in cheeck.....yeah, I bite my tongue a bunch, but so what?

    Man, if I bore or anger you, feel free to ignore me. Or if you agree or disagree with me, feel free to say so.

    When we get to the point where all we post is "Yes, I agree" is the point when I won't be back.

    IT'S JUST MY OPINION, ASSFACE!!!!!!!!

    BTW: you can't up your post count by responding more than once per thread, and who gives a shit anyway?
    pie



    IF YOU LEAVE THE HOUSE, YOU'RE JUST ASKING FOR IT!




  6. #46
    In the Zone/Backstage Pass moonpie's Avatar
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    Originally posted by thunder75
    Let me guess, you haven't tried it.

    It made a huge difference on my guitar, if you think i am lying well, thats not my problem.

    To the others that have done it and liked the results, I am with you.
    Hey, man
    I never called anyone a liar. I simply stated my opinion. Isn't that why we come here, to share opinions and knowledge?

    However you want to string your guitar is fine with me.

    I bolted my tailpiece down for years. THE TIGHTER THE BETTER!!!! SUSTAIN!!!!!!!THE HEAVIER THE GUITAR, THE BETTER SUSTAIN!!!!!!!! Wrap your strings, more downward pressure,MORE SUSTAIN!!!!!!!!!! Well, that was the 70's..............

    I don't do it anymore, which pisses assbass off to no end for some reason. spin

    pie



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  7. #47
    Bedroom Rocker ShawnRT's Avatar
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    It's Christmas time, peace on earth goodwill to men and all that good stuff. Is it really worth it to get worked up over how someone strings up a guitar? The name calling does little to advance the arguments of either side. Take a break, have an eggnog and have fun.


  8. #48
    Les Paul Forum Member GreenManalishi's Avatar
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    I've tried it twice already. String wrapping to me is a waste of time. The only thing I know is my guitars sound better, and feel better, the normal way. Go figure!

  9. #49
    In the Zone/Backstage Pass moonpie's Avatar
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    Originally posted by ShawnRT
    It's Christmas time, peace on earth goodwill to men and all that good stuff. Is it really worth it to get worked up over how someone strings up a guitar? The name calling does little to advance the arguments of either side. Take a break, have an eggnog and have fun.

    OK if I have a Natural Light instead? Gotta keep my boyish figure and all that.



    IF YOU LEAVE THE HOUSE, YOU'RE JUST ASKING FOR IT!




  10. #50
    In the Zone/Backstage Pass moonpie's Avatar
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    Originally posted by moonpie

    All ya'll have done so far is get some of the Gibson folks thinking of a Signature version with wrapped strings, for which you'll pay $1200 extra, and some of you, I guarantee, will pay the extra and run the strings straight through, with the same reasonings I've read here as to why. . Agile will make a copy...............AND I'M GONNA SAY I TOLD YOU SO!!~!!!!!!!!!!!
    God Bless you bunch of morons.
    If had anywhere else to go, I wouldn't hang out here.
    spin spin
    pie

    You gotta admit, this part is pretty funny
    pie



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  11. #51
    In the Zone/Backstage Pass moonpie's Avatar
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    And Mr Ashbass,
    I apologize for the name calling. You have a cool avatar. I never met a stick man I didn't like.
    pie



    IF YOU LEAVE THE HOUSE, YOU'RE JUST ASKING FOR IT!




  12. #52
    Bedroom Rocker ShawnRT's Avatar
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    Originally posted by moonpie
    OK if I have a Natural Light instead? Gotta keep my boyish figure and all that.

    No problem, have the beverage of your choice

    :davepaf :davepaf :davepaf :davepaf

  13. #53
    Les Paul Forum Member ashbass's Avatar
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    "Yes, I agree"


    ---------------------------
    Now, that's funny.

  14. #54
    Les Paul Forum Member
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    Originally posted by GreenManalishi
    I've tried it twice already. String wrapping to me is a waste of time. The only thing I know is my guitars sound better, and feel better, the normal way. Go figure!
    .

  15. #55
    Les Paul Forum Member Dthraco's Avatar
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    Ok, said I would post when I switched back...(vacation kept me from changing strings) So, today I put on a new set of strings NOT WRAPPED over the stop bar.

    The action does feel a bit more stiff. Makes me a bit more agressive when I play. I like that.

    No more wrappin.

  16. #56
    Les Paul Forum Member
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    it makes a big difference to me. I don't see how anyone can argue that it doesn't. No one get's so lit and angry about people saying that there is a difference in changing the height of the tailpice. All that wrapping does is change the angle that the strings break over the bridge. The effect or the amount of change that this causes is subjective, but for me I am certain that my strings bend more easily and that my guitar sound brighter when I wrap my strings. ~I don't wrap my strrings right now.

  17. #57
    Originally posted by andrewmargin
    it makes a big difference to me. I don't see how anyone can argue that it doesn't. No one get's so lit and angry about people saying that there is a difference in changing the height of the tailpice.
    Wanna hear something funny?

    I've been wrapping the SG, and just loving the feel. I was actually agonizing over whether I should swap out the TP6 on the LPC, which I really like, to a plain-ol' stopper. So, I hit the Guitar Center in Harrisburg the weekend before last. They didn't have one, and I was thinking, "Well, hell, I guess I'll just order one up on the Web." And then, the light-bulb went on: "Hey...I can just raise the TP6!"

    Sometimes, my genius is just blinding, innit?

    So, that's what I did, and I love it. No tone-soak or nothin', and I'm getting that loose-goosey feel from the strings.

    The world's going to hell on a rocket-sled, but my guitars feel fine.
    Last edited by WJBIII; 01-07-04 at 10:27 PM.

  18. #58
    Les Paul Forum Member Tokai Love Rock's Avatar
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    I tried the wrap on my 1990 Standard last night and I was very impressed by the results. My Standard was a very dull lifeless sounding guitar. My Tokai kicked its butt. However, after wrapping the strings and lowering the tailpiece my Gibson has taken on new life. The dull, lifeless tone and dead spots are completely gone all over the neck. If anything it may be a bit too bright now but it will probably settle down a little after the strings get some mileage on them. I am still using the same brand and gague of strings I always have so I can't attribute it to new strings. It sounds so good now I believe I will start playing it more. I can't wait to do the future upgrades now such as the RS wiring kit, light weight aluminum tailpiece and replacing those heavy Grovers with some Klusons using the conversion bushings. A bone nut may be in order too. Oh, and I can't forget those strap locks if I want to keep it in good condition. I realize that the wrap hasn't provided everybody with these results but it sure has worked wonders on my guitar. As far a feel, I could not detect any difference. It always played great, it just sounded bad in the past.

  19. #59
    Les Paul Forum Member Mark's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Dr_Guitar
    Backwrapping was done on old Les-Pauls to lessen the string tension on the ABR 1 bridge, the bridge & the thin posts were prone to bending or collapsing . Older Les-Pauls (Historics too) have the neck at a steeper angle. Most modern Les-Pauls have less neck angle & dont need to be backwrapped.
    Back wrapping can damage the plating on the top, so if you plan on keeping it that way its no problem.

  20. #60
    Les Paul Forum Member
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    In the middle of all this stuff everyone has a piece of the truth. I don't want to (maybe can't) provide the math but electron's physics is correct but it is also true that the string length beyond the bridge and nut come into play. The friction at the bridge is a function of the force between the bridge and the string (which is a function of the string tension and the angle the string makes at the bridge) and the coefficient of friction which is can be considered a constant. Reducing the string angle reduces the force and therefore reduces the friction force.

    So wrapping reduces the friction making is easier for the string length behind the TOM to stretch when the string is bent. As pointed out by others, bending the string does increase the pitch of the bridge to tailpiece string and using the formula electron presented the only conclusion is the tension of that piece of string is increasing. In practice i have found the string must be bent a lot to have an audible influence on the pitch behind the bridge.

    The second part of this is the tension in the string between the bridge and tailpiece is affected by the string angle. It is a sin or cosine function depending on how you you define the angles but the end result is smaller angles give more tension (with no break angle being 180 deg - straight string, and decreasing as the tailpiece is lowered). So a wrapped tailpiece would have a bigger angle than an unwrapped tailpiece so the tension behind the bridge is lower making is easier to stretch.

    So it is possible that a wrap could result in a change in feel when fretting the string. I don't want to try to quantify it but it would certainly be small since there is so much string available between the bridge and the tuner that can "absorb" the tension compared to the length between the bridge and the tailpiece and the effect is gonna be sorta proportional to the ratio of the total length and the bridge to TP length. Still it might be felt I guess.

    One interesting (maybe) sidebar. When bending the string may feel a little slinker (may) but the overall effect would be to increase the tension required to reach a given pitch by bending. When bending two things happen. The tension in the string increases and the length of the string increases. As electron's equation tells us, that has two effects. The increasing tension increases the pitch and the increasing length decreases the pitch. Since the rise in tension is much more dramatic the overall effect is increasing pitch (sorry for stating the obvious). However, the ability of the string to stretch behind the bridge slows the rise of the vibrating string tension. The string must be bent further to get the same tension in the vibrating length. Bending further lengthens the string more. The result is the final tension required to reach a given pitch would actually be higher since the string is longer. A small effect for sure but it is there.

    If I hadn't played so late I might be able to explain it better but I think this is how it all fits together.

    hunter

  21. #61
    Les Paul Forum Member Sunburst79's Avatar
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    Backwrapping was done on old Les-Pauls to lessen the string tension on the ABR 1 bridge, the bridge & the thin posts were prone to bending or collapsing . Older Les-Pauls (Historics too) have the neck at a steeper angle. Most modern Les-Pauls have less neck angle & dont need to be backwrapped.
    Ah, Sorry, The older the Paul the shallower the neck angle.

  22. #62
    Les Paul Forum Member Pearly Grapes's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Tokai Love Rock
    ..........and replacing those heavy Grovers with some Klusons using the conversion bushings.
    Hey TLR;
    Just FYI, Grover makes Kluxon look-alikes that sound great & you WON'T have to use conversion bushings.
    Never Stop Playing!

  23. #63
    Les Paul Forum Member Tokai Love Rock's Avatar
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    Thank you Pearly Grapes! I will have to take a look at the Grovers you mention. I appreciate the advice.

  24. #64
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    Juat a dumbass thought, but the sensitivity of our fingertips is amazing (they can detect minimal vibrations) so even these small changes in tension, etc, may affect the perceived experience of playing the guitar much more than the strict numbers indicate.

  25. #65
    Les Paul Forum Member DaveTV's Avatar
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    If wrapping was the prefered way for Duane, it's good enough for me............





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