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50s Wiring corrections?

electricwood

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Mar 10, 2004
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594
k4df4l said:
Ashbase: I don't want to step on any toes but if you are going to post that as your own schematic on your own site, you might want to not use Seymour Duncans schematic images as the basis. If I am wrong about that, my apology in advance.
Thats what I was thinking!
. :wtf
 

swankmote

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Feb 5, 2004
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Rock on, you should really love the RS kit because I just installed one with the fifties wiring and it is the "REAL DEAL"!!!!!!!! I couldn't believe how much tone I was missing from my Wagner pickups and the instrument itself! Everything the guys are pointing out in this thread is correct in relation to the electronic theory of what is going on in the circuit but you will have to let your own ears decide! For my money, this arrangement allows the true vintage character of the PAF style pickup to shine like the holy grail tone that it is known for and the RS kit nailed it! I actually had the pleasure of beta testing it next to "Geetarpicka's" 59' and it nailed it!!!!!!!The interaction of the controls allows for some really "musical" effects that you should try for yourself. It's just that enigmatic tone and feel that makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up when I crank that LP to "11" !!!!!! See for yourself and let us know what you think!!!!!! :dude
 

electricwood

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Mar 10, 2004
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Hi,
I think Rock On! has already installed the kit a while ago? 7/4/04
this is an old thread.
 

hgus

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Nov 8, 2002
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This is a thread that deserves a bump!

I'm buying the RS kit and will try the '50s wiring this afternoon in my (so far) stack LP std '92. Should be interesting!
 

Purple

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Jan 26, 2004
Messages
104
After reading all the various threads on RS kits and 50's wiring, I ordered a RS Basic Production Kit (w/ the Mallory 150s) for my '88 LP Standard w/ SD APH-1 pups. As my soldering iron was heating up I was still uncertain if I was going to go 50's wiring or RS wiring... well, I ended up going with 50's wiring because... it was easier to do (less solder connections)...
...Wow... everyone is right about both the RS components AND the 50's wiring. Every combination of vol/tone knob settings is usable now. Turning down the vol knob results in a nice clear tone, no mud. And this is without any high-pass caps on the vol pot. What was really surprising though was the cool tones I could get by turning the tone knob down -chunky, yet clear, rhythm sounds. Of course turning the tone all the way down got me the woman-tone thing happening but it's the in-between settings that are amazing. Plus as someone else said, turning the tone knob down cleans up the tone slightly as well as warming it up. This guitar is so versatile and musical now.
Oh, and what was in there before? Stock factory wiring scheme, the vol pots were 500k+ but they were linear. The tone pots were 100k!! Not sure how those got in there. And the caps were the cheapo brown ceramic disks. This wiring did not sound good and the turned-down knob positions were muddy and unusable.
I have a 2001 R8 Custom Authentic that is still bone stock... I think I know what I need to do to it now....
This forum has been a great learning experience and me and my guitar thank everyone for all this cool knowledge... :)
 

Minneapolis Slim

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Oct 21, 2001
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Purple, that's exactly my reaction to that combo as well. Except on onw guitar I just bought my own parts, CTS pots from Blackrose and Hovland caps from Antique Electronics (before Blackrose sold the Hovlands). Exactly the same results. I wire every guitar 50s style now, it just plain works better, IMO!
 

hgus

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Nov 8, 2002
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Ok, I'm a believer. To me, the '50s wiring made a major difference, highly recommended!

(Btw, I did not bother changing the tonepot's connections.)
 

natew73

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Nov 8, 2004
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hgus said:
Ok, I'm a believer. To me, the '50s wiring made a major difference, highly recommended!

(Btw, I did not bother changing the tonepot's connections.)
I'm personally still not hog-wild about the 50's wiring. While I like it better than current modern wiring, I didn't like the taper I got on the 50's wiring. I just installed a RS kit in my buddy's '01 LP classic with WCR Fillmore pickups. First I did it with 50's wiring. While it sounded great, I didn't have much taper on the volume knobs. The volume was almost gone when it hit 5. So, I started over and went with the RS wiring with the true tone, cap/resistor on the neck volume pot. I get much better taper now on the volume and tone pots. I really can't tell much if any difference in the tone between the 50's and RS wiring. Just my two cents....
BTW, the Classic sounds awesome with the RS kit and Fillmores. Here are a couple pics. I really like the guitar, but hate the thin neck. It's a tone monster now. It's a 2001 model. The inlays aren't as green as some I've seen.
DSC03140.jpg

DSC03152.jpg
 
Last edited:

double tones

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Dec 19, 2002
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509
Sweet Looking Guitar. Plus, I thought I'd give this thread a nice almost end of summer, Bump.

I've read most of the posts in this thread, but in plain english hahah, what are some of the characteristic differences between modern and 50's wiring?
Is one brighter? Is one suited more towards certain types of guitars, for example acoustically dark guitars?

Also, why isn't Gibson doing this currently?
 

Pearly Grapes

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Jul 20, 2001
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2,332
Looks Great! My only suggestion is to label the graphic with a title directly within the graphic. Something like "50s wiring mod for Gibsons"
 

Armitage

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Apr 6, 2005
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If this is supposedly a better way of doing wiring on a guitar... why isn't Gibson doing it? It's not like it's harder to do or more expensive.
 

NuSkoolTone

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Dec 12, 2003
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GlassSnuff said:
Since I seldom use the "50's" wiring, and never use treble bleed circuits, I'll have to pass on your second question.

The first is why I don't use the "50's" configuration. I'm an old cap freak, and I like caps that are older than I am, just for the coloration. Putting the tone control after the volume control inhibits this coloration, just as you suggest. IMO, people that spend money for caps will get more for their money with the "modern" wiring.


So if I am reading this correctly. The 50's wiring is clear, yet chunky when turning the volume down, but with LITTLE cap coloration, and also brighter when wide open? Conversly the treble Bleed/Stock wiring is EVEN MORE clear, but less chunky with MORE cap coloration when turned down BUT not as bright when wide open?

I recently started playing with cap values a bit and have the .001 treble bleed cap and stock wiring cap wise. I am hesitant to go changin things because I have a psuedo Jimmy Page wiring setup (Sans Phase reverse) and it's a real jungle in there!

Just curious what to expect if I delve into it....

TIA
 

GlassSnuff

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Jan 30, 2002
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Oh, I so hate to talk about tone. ;)

What you call "chunky" I think I call "scooped".

It's more important to know that 'on ten' the 50's and Modern wiring both sound the same because physically, they are the same.

When you turn the volume down, the 50's wiring will sound brighter.

That's because the resistor of the volume pot gets in the way and blocks the tone control. So you get less effect of the capacitor as well.
 

fatnecks

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Jan 14, 2007
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So here's something I don't understand. When wiring to the 50s style, why swap the lugs of the tone pot? One end is input and the other is ground and it can't make any difference electrically which wiper is hot and which is ground. Why move 'em?
 

Ephlat

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Jan 9, 2007
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As far as I know, you DON'T have to change them. Just if you want it "authentic", i.e. to match the way it used to be wired. The sound should be the same.
 
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