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Les Paul Custom '62

DonP

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Feb 21, 2003
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All this talk about SG's

Dan,

Mofinco's SG looks awesome. I love the color. You said you liked the color of my SG Special, but I'm just making sure you wouldn't consider refinishing it to be more like Mofie's.

Maybe you could post some pictures and let the forum member give me a yea or nay about refinishing?

To let everyone know, my SG is a 1963? Special that had been refinished once before. The back side is worn away (buckle rash), and it's with Dan because the neck came apart from the body. Since it is apart for surgery, now would be a good time to decide if I refinish it or not.



Also, how does my neck compare to Mofie's? I remember we were thinking someone might have sanded my neck down to thin it. Just wondering.

Thanks,

Don
 

RickN

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Feb 12, 2002
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7,143
Re: All this talk about SG's

DonP said:
...Mofie's.... ...Mofie's...
Nothing personal, there Don, but you don't know me well enough to call me "Mofie" yet... ;) It's "mofinco" :dude
 

RickN

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Re: C,mon Mr. Mofinco. . .

Dan Erlewine said:
. . . it's my fault. Don't blame Don. He's real nice.

dan
Dan - YOU can call me mofie! :lolspin
 

DonP

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Feb 21, 2003
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Re: Re: All this talk about SG's

mofinco said:
Nothing personal, there Don, but you don't know me well enough to call me "Mofie" yet... ;) It's "mofinco" :dude

Sorry. Didn't mean to offend. If Dan gets the time, I hope he gets a chance to post a picture of my SG Special. I bought her back in 1989 at the Hollywood GC. The wood on mine doesn't have as exciting a grain as yours, but the neck feels awesome, P90's sound real good, and it is a real feather weight guitar. I was really bummed when I took it out of the closet one day to show a friend and the neck was unglued? from the body and stretched forward from the tension of the strings.

Also, my guitar has similar routes in the pickup cavity as yours (and mine are P90s - what gives?) so I think your routes are correct.

My neck binding is very thin like yours too. Mucho playing time.

I had mine refretted with Super Jumbos back in the "Metal" days.

Did any of you SG guys use a FatHead? I still have mine.
 
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Dan Erlewine

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Jul 18, 2001
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She's been "fixed" . . .

. . . (sounds like a spay-job, not a spray-job).

Don: So far so good. I broke the neck completely off the body - part of the body with it as you know. It had been glued on the same break with poor epoxy. It was still soft after over 10 years. We spent four hours cleaning to bare wood and put it back on with RBC epoxy - a wonderful epoxy that I learned about from the great Phil Jones at the Gruhn repair shop.

This neck ain't comin' loose again. I am considering going into the neck pocket and milling away some stuff and epoxying-in some new mahogany then re-routing the P-90 cavity. Just thinking about it right now for a day or so.

As U-know, some amount of finish work is in store for this guitar sometime down the road. (It has been re-fined, and I think pretty well, but Don P isn't sure he likes it).

I will string it up tomorrow and watch the joint.

Yes, I will take some PICS. (I just couldn't during the "operation," I was too busy keeping things aligned).

dan
 

DonP

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Feb 21, 2003
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Dan,

It's amazing that the neck stayed together as long as it did. I'll trust you with whatever decisions you make in putting this guitar back together.

I have got to bring in my frankenstrat to give you a laugh. In my younger days I routed the neck pocket "free hand" to sink the neck farther in the body for better access to the higher frets. I think it plays good but I'm not that good a player to notice things like intonation being out of whack. I read about some guys noticing every little note being slightly off and wonder if it's good that I'm spared thanks to my tone deaf ears. I never play to anyone but myself so I guess it's ok.

As far as the finish goes, I'm just a anal "Gibson Original" fan, and just wanted it to look like it came from Gibson. The SG's I see most of the time from this era are that bright red or heritage cherry, but after reading Beauty of the Burst and how red fades faster than blue turning the guitar brown, I can see that this might look authentic. With you saying you like the color that goes a long was to convincing me to keep it the way it is.

I really don't think I could ever part with this SG, and it probably wouldn't be worth it considering it's been refinished. Some guy offered to trade me an 80's white 12 string Stratocaster in good shape for the SG even with it's broken neck. I quickly looked on ebay and a strat just like his sold for $800, so in essence this guy was offering me $800 for a unoriginal SG with a broken neck. I turned him down.

Don
 
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Dan Erlewine

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Jul 18, 2001
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It's good you turned down the $800 . . .

. . . I strung it up today and the guitar (an SG Special, I believe?) sounds great acoustically. The neck (fretboard that is) has some issues: whoever refretted it didn't get the fretboard surface truly flat so there are high and low spots). I think that in the neck-jig these frets would level and dress because they are quite tall. I haven't gotten that far yet. I have .010s on it. Is that what you wanted? Let me know soon.

I am thinking about what to do with the finish. Are you SURE that ALL of this guitar was refinished? The top looks close to being original. The color is right I think, and I even think the lacquer looks right. The back, and the neck, have some non-original-finish issues as you know.

What year do YOU think this is?

dan
 

DonP

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Feb 21, 2003
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Dan,

I'm usually a whimp and use hybrid 9's (9-46). I've got 10's on my LP Standard at home and I'm trying to get used to them. Go ahead and leave the 10's. Also, go for 10's on the LP Classic too.

I don't know anything about the refinish. I bought it at Guitar Center Hollywood back in 1989. The only work I had done on it was the fret job. All of the other work was done before I owned it.

Guitar Center said it was a 1963 model. Without a serial number, it isn't easy, but the pickguard and everything else on the guitar seems to date it as a 63-64 from what I've seen on ebay and in books.

Don
 

LesPlucker

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Mar 12, 2002
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186
Early SG neck heels

I looked with interest at the pictures of Mofinco's SG/LP. Tonefiend asked for a picture of the heel of the guitar, stating that a smooth heel is indicative of an early one. Mofinco posted a clear photo of the heel of his SG, which has a "small step" heel, not smooth. This SG is apparently a 1961.

I have two all-original early SGs. One is a 1961 SG/LP, sideways vibrato, PAFs, original case, etc. In really great shape. I also have a 1963 SG Special with P90s. Also in excellent shape with original case. Both of these guitars have a "smooth heel." There is NO visible step at all. In fact, there is something like a thin "external tenon" that extends from the neck under the body of the guitars, past where the strap button is screwed in. These necks are actually kind of complicated. Neither of these guitars have ever had or needed repairs. All the other early SGs I've seen also have had the "smooth heel." I haven't seen a 1963 or earlier with the step heel. In fact, I have always thought and been told that a smooth heel is the way to tell an early one. However, the Historic SGs and 1961 reissues have a small step heel; supposedly they are accurate.

Question: Does anybody know if ALL early SGs had a smooth heel, or was it an option of some sort? I can post photos of my SGs if it would help.

Thanks...
 

lpmaniac

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Apr 26, 2002
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Here's pics of my 61 SG/LP neck joint...

http://www.lamacguru.com/61SG

Serial # 31288, definitely a 1961 according to all Gibson or other serial # records. My neck joint has the step, no repairs and it's the original finish, too. Go figure.
 

LesPlucker

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Mar 12, 2002
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lpmaniac,

Thanks for that post. I took a look at your pics. I wish they were higher resolution, the colors are all washed out and pixelated, it was hard to make out the neck join details. In some of the photos it looks smooth; in one I thought I could see a line indicating the step. By the way, I didn't see any front-shots of your SG, but from the tuners I see that it is an SG Special or Jr? I also see that you have replacement tuners. Looks like a real nice one!

I just took a look at my 63 SG Special again. The smooth join is very well done, it almost looks like the neck and body are one piece. It's weird that they would do the necks differently. Seems that there may be more wood contact with the smooth heel. Also, my "smooth heel" SGs have very solid necks...minimal wiggle. I also have a 1991 SG/LP Anniversary TV Yellow one that has the small step heel. Also a great guitar, but a much spongier neck.

Thanks again for the info!
 

RickN

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Feb 12, 2002
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LesPlucker,

I'm rapidly learning that there aren't any hard-and-fast "rules" about the '61 LP/SGs, especially when it comes to necks. While Dan had my guitar, we talked a few times and exchanged emails, etc. It seems that Gibson was probably experimenting with neck profiles and body joints a bit during the early days.

Mine is definitely a '61, and by all accounts by those who have seen it, it's an early one at that, it does have the step in the neck joint. Who knows! Seems that ya get whatcha get! I think there was something going on with mine. While it's clear that the neck on mine has never been broken, and never been loose, and there have been no repairs or resets, the angle of the neck set seems to be different. On my guitar, the bridge almost rests right on the body to get decent action height, and this is even after Dan's magic. I bought Historic pickup rings, and the back edge of the pickup ring is almost touching the strings. Something's different, but nothing's been altered. Kinda funny, but the guitar is killer nonetheless.

I'd love to see some pics of your '61, particularly around the pickups and bridge area. I'd like to see how high your bridge sits off the body and the relationship between the bridge pickup ring and the strings. If you'd like to email them to me, that would be fine. Thanks for any help.
 

lpmaniac

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Apr 26, 2002
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OK, LesPlucker... you asked for it!

The before dawn had to prop my guitar up on my stomach to take this shot of the neck joint picture! This clear enough? Guess I'm losing my Maui tan! :lol2
NB1.jpg

NB2.jpg
 

LesPlucker

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Mar 12, 2002
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mofinco--

Glad to help out. I'll take the photos you need this afternoon. I'll also try to get a side shto so that you can see the neck angle, that might play into the bridge geometry. What's interesting about yours also is that serial number. I concur that it probably means it is an early prototype of some sort. Cool!

lpmaniac--

Thanks for the photos. To me, your SG looks like it has the smooth neck join! The only steps I see are on the two sides...I don't see one on the top. Check out my pictures later today, I'll take some of my 63 Special too. By the way, you have indeed lost your Maui tan. Be careful with your SG on that tummy...it looks like steel wool!

Thanks guys.
 

DonP

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Feb 21, 2003
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I think mine has a smooth neck heel. It is still with Dan. Maybe he can post some pics, but I think he's on a trip this week.

Don
 
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