Gibson newbie: opinions needed on a 1968' 335!

ultrasun · Nov 18, 2020

Hi there,
new french guy in the forum, glad to be here!
I hope you can school me a bit! I'm a Fender guy, but I've always lusted for a good 335... Today I have the funds to finally grab one, but I'm no expert, and I'm not fully aware of how a 335 should sound in every respect.
Yesterday I tried a 1968 Gibson 335 TD with a Bigsby. It's around 7k. Guitars are more expensive in EU than in the US (= 5k or so...)
It sounded really great! No volume drop between the two pickups, very lively. It has a rather thin neck, which I like, it's an easy player. I was surprised at how the bridge pickup is super usable; the 335 could be a one-pickup guitar!

The only thing keeping me from pulling the trigger is this:
-on the neck pickup, the low E string doesn't twang. It lacks power. It sounds more like a jazz guitar (say a Gibson L5) than a "rock" guitar. If I palm mute and play on that E string, I don't get a "thud" like on a soli-body, and the tone is a bit "flabby"... For what it is, the sound is beautiful, but it doesn't jump at you like it does in the middle position and bridge position.
So: Is it how a 335 is supposed to sound, meaning you never play that low E string on the neck pickup and expect a surf sound? Is this the semi-hollow/jazz side of the 335?
Or should I keep on looking and try other 335s because the lows on the neck position should be mean?
Thanks a lot guys for your help!

fakejake · Nov 18, 2020

You can try raising the neck pickup on the bass side, or just raise the polepiece for the low e string.
Regardless, 7k is very expensive for a '68, even in the EU. Unless the guitar is in mint condition, I would either continue looking or negotiate the price.

poor man's burst · Nov 18, 2020

There can be different reasons for a "flabby" low E, (like too shallow angle behind the bridge if the Bigsby is not a B-7) but the first that comes to my mind would be the neck pickup (or both) too close to the strings. If you have the opportunity, try lowering the bass side of the pickup(s) or screw in the screw of the corresponding string, and see if that changes something.

ultrasun · Nov 18, 2020

fakejake said:
You can try raising the neck pickup on the bass side, or just raise the polepiece for the low e string.
Regardless, 7k is very expensive for a '68, even in the EU. Unless the guitar is in mint condition, I would either continue looking or negotiate the price.

Yeah, I think it's a bit expensive too. But it's quite difficult to find one with a fair price in a store so you can play the guitar before buying... I can try negociating.

poor man's burst said:
There can be different reasons for a "flabby" low E, (like too shallow angle behind the bridge if the Bigsby is not a B-7) but the first that comes to my mind would be the neck pickup (or both) too close to the strings. If you have the opportunity, try lowering the bass side of the pickup(s) or screw in the screw of the corresponding string, and see if that changes something.

It is a B7 indeed. So you're saying this is mainly a pickup issue, not a sign that that Gibson would be a bad one?

I've watched a few demos this morning of 335s, and it seems to match what I've experienced. Using a clean sound, that neck pickup is beefy and round, but definitely not clangy.. you get a fat low-end, but it is not really tight and punchy... (and I'm not saying it's a flaw, I'm just trying to get a sense of how it is supposed to sound...)
Keep posting fellas!

poor man's burst · Nov 18, 2020

"It is a B7 indeed. So you're saying this is mainly a pickup issue, not a sign that that Gibson would be a bad one?"

Not exactly. What I've said is that, in my experience, it is likely the pickup(s) too close to the strings, not the pickup itself, rather their height. That's why I suggested, if possible, to try to lower the pickup(s) and see if it somewhat cures the problem. But it can also be caused by another reason, going from a defective E string to the whole guitar not responding well to bass notes and a lot of things in between.

" Using a clean sound, that neck pickup is beefy and round, but definitely not clangy.. you get a fat low-end, but it is not really tight and punchy..."

If you are a Fender man, to a certain extend, don't expect an ES-335 to sound like a Stratocaster.

El Gringo · Nov 18, 2020

I agree with all others that have said to lower the neck pickup a little which should make it play better . Also , as one poster mentioned it could be a bad string as well . I am not that up to date on the prices , but if it fits your budget and works for you go for for it . I also get where you are coming from and can appreciate that you are able to spend some time playing the instrument and thus making a better informed choice . Best Wishes , as i think you are on the right path .

Wilko · Nov 18, 2020

And change the strings. That's all it needs. Those guitars are very stable and don't need any pickup tweaking. Some guys like to lower the neck pickup quite a bit because they can bee a bit "boomy". I like mine high as can be and watch myy volume controls and picking if using the neck pickup. FWIW, mine is a '65 with standard width neck and a stop tailpiece conversion.

You love the thin neck. That's great 'cause the thin neck is why those years are usually less expensive! :salude

ultrasun · Nov 19, 2020

poor man's burst said:
If you are a Fender man, to a certain extend, don't expect an ES-335 to sound like a Stratocaster.

Wilko said:
And change the strings. That's all it needs. Those guitars are very stable and don't need any pickup tweaking. Some guys like to lower the neck pickup quite a bit because they can bee a bit "boomy". I like mine high as can be and watch myy volume controls and picking if using the neck pickup. FWIW, mine is a '65 with standard width neck and a stop tailpiece conversion.

You love the thin neck. That's great 'cause the thin neck is why those years are usually less expensive! :salude

Thanks guys! Yeah, that's the kind of info I'm looking for... I'm not used to playing 335s, so I was surprised by the low end on the neck pickup. I think I've found a good one.. Now I dont know I should take my time till I find a couple more to try... If this one is sold in the meantime... Would you say the production in 1968 was rather consistent, or was there many ups and downs quality-wise?

Wilko · Nov 19, 2020

They are fairly consistent, but can get real heavy starting in 1968/69.

IMHO, the bigsby kills much of the feel. I'd stay away from that. But that's just me. I prefer the stop tail to the factory trapeze from that time.

Grog · Nov 20, 2020

It sounds like the guitars you are interested in is similar to my ‘67. I’ve been happy with it but was leery of the Bigsby also. I thought at the time that it might sustain better than a trapeze tailpiece, but the jury is still out on that.

fakejake · Nov 20, 2020

Grog said:
It sounds like the guitars you are interested in is similar to my ‘67. I’ve been happy with it but was leery of the Bigsby also. I thought at the time that it might sustain better than a trapeze tailpiece, but the jury is still out on that.

Great looking guitar! Might be the angle of the picture, but these look like large f-holes to me, so according to Charlie's website this would be a '68 or later model.

ultrasun · Nov 21, 2020

Wilko said:
They are fairly consistent, but can get real heavy starting in 1968/69.

IMHO, the bigsby kills much of the feel. I'd stay away from that. But that's just me. I prefer the stop tail to the factory trapeze from that time.

Well, the Bigsby is a main attraction for me! I've been wanting one forever!

ultrasun · Nov 21, 2020

Grog said:
It sounds like the guitars you are interested in is similar to my ‘67. I’ve been happy with it but was leery of the Bigsby also. I thought at the time that it might sustain better than a trapeze tailpiece, but the jury is still out on that.

What does "leery" mean? Could you elaborate on that Bigsby drawback? Thanks!

Grog · Nov 21, 2020

I was looking for a nice 335 about that age & after looking for a while this one showed up at a local vintage guitar store. I just visualized it with a trapeze tailpiece. This one is sort of unique in the fact that it has a “CUSTOM” truss rod cover due to being ordered with a factory Bigsby. I rarely use the Bigsby but I do believe it improves the sustain over a trapeze tailpiece, if only by a small amount.

Red Rogue · Nov 22, 2020

Like on Grog`s ES335 the nylon bridge saddles also softens the tone a little bit. The regular tailpiece with brass saddles give the tone a bit more top end and "Zing". Maybe a bit harsher in sound.
For me and my bigger hands, the mid-late 60ies necks are dealbreakers. 7k€ is too much! What if you want to sell it again?
You shouldn`t exclude the actual Gibson ES 335 line. Especially the Memphis production between 2016-2018 has good reputations. Check them out! Get a feel for them.
I play a 2016 '58 ES 335. A great guitar! The neck pickup is clear and can be very punchy because of the PAF Style - MHS Pickups + 50ies Wiring. My tone control is always dialed a bit down.

AA00475Bassman · Nov 22, 2020

Narrow nut is a deal breaker owned three 68' ES and one 67 black Trini Lopez . Seeing I do not buy or live in Paris price is moot , commenting on price is ridiculous so much more in play than exchange rate ! Im going to cut a lot of peoples fat hogs here a Memphis RI is a great guitar I own -owned two I understand wanting a old guitar as I also understand age does not define a great guitar .

ultrasun · Nov 23, 2020

Red Rogue said:
Like on Grog`s ES335 the nylon bridge saddles also softens the tone a little bit. The regular tailpiece with brass saddles give the tone a bit more top end and "Zing". Maybe a bit harsher in sound.
For me and my bigger hands, the mid-late 60ies necks are dealbreakers. 7k€ is too much! What if you want to sell it again?
You shouldn`t exclude the actual Gibson ES 335 line. Especially the Memphis production between 2016-2018 has good reputations. Check them out! Get a feel for them.
I play a 2016 '58 ES 335. A great guitar! The neck pickup is clear and can be very punchy because of the PAF Style - MHS Pickups + 50ies Wiring. My tone control is always dialed a bit down.

Yeah I know most people like fat necks (or "chunky" if you're talking about Fender!), I don't. I could never bond with a SG because of that...

Regarding price, I agree, but all in all, finding a near-mint 1968 335 with a Bigsby won't be under 6 500 euros in France. I truly think that's your best price tag. Especially with the prices going crazy over the last 5 years...
I've been thinking about the current line too (I'm assuming you were not talking Custom shop?).... But I'm on the market for a vintage guitar. I'm kind of old school here, 9 times out of 10 when I play a 60s guitar It feels so much better.

I'm gonna try n play a few more 335s and see whether what I'm hearing is just plain old 335, or if neck pickup/E string can be lot a lot tighter...

ultrasun · Nov 25, 2020

@AA00475Bassman, @Grog, @fakejake, @Wilko, @poor man's burst, etc...

That's it! I pulled the trigger! My first Gibson! I'm so delighted...
I went back to the shop to try the guitar again. They had several 335s, luckily, and I was able to A/B it with another 68' with a hard tail piece, and a beautiful 64'. Well the 68' I was lookin' at sounded glorious, like an old acoustic guitar that blossomed after decades of being played, this is how the guitar I bought felt. The other 68 sounded pale and "shut down" in comparison, the 64' was a tad warmer, but didn't have the immediate magic (it sounded great nonetheless). I wasn't struck by neck differences. And by the way, by thin necks, I mean "thickness", not nut width... as I came to understand that when people say thin necks are a deal breaker, they're talking about nut width...
Anyway, I was in awe again and decided to go for it. Had a small discount. Took the guitar home and played... oh my God. I love this guitar. It is so lively. The neck is super easy to play (best neck of the 3 I played), and the humbucker sound is so tight, I was surprised. This doesn't feel like a Les Paul at all. The tone is very focused, and is not emphasizing all frequencies to the max (my small experience with Les Pauls...). All 3 pickups are very well balanced, and offer a totally different tone on the three positions.
It's not a guitar with a big bottom end, contrary to what I expected. I can see why it became more of a blues/rock guitar than a jazz guitar.
This is a decisive addition to my arsenal, so many more sounds available now.
Couldn't be happier! All original and beautiful!
(sorry about the Iphone pic...)

AA00475Bassman · Nov 25, 2020

Very nice guitar Enjoy !

fakejake · Nov 26, 2020

Congrats :salude !! These late 60ies 335s can be fantastic guitars, enjoy!

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