• Guys, we've spent considerable money converting the Les Paul Forum to this new XenForo platform, and we have ongoing monthly operating expenses. THE "DONATIONS" TAB IS NOW WORKING, AND WE WOULD APPRECIATE ANY DONATIONS YOU CAN MAKE TO KEEP THE LES PAUL FORUM GOING! Thank you!

Is this normal for the 2020 (or any) LP Standard range?

shakdang

New member
Joined
Feb 2, 2020
Messages
13
I briefly owned a brand new 2020 Les Paul Standard 60's (unburst if that matters) that I had to return for various reasons. It was bought in Feb, 2020 from a very reputable dealer in UK.

Among some other issues (wonky pots / knobs, tool marks on fret board etc.) there was this issue around the 12th mark on the high 'e' side of the neck that really bothered me.

It almost looked as if someone took a heavy sander or grinder to the fretboard edge and gouged out good few millimetres, I am guessing, to perhaps correct the fretboard/neck and heel joint alignment or something?

It tapered in to such an extent that there wasn't enough binding left to create the nib and the sharp fret ends poked out for a few frets. I could also feel the taper when playing and it did annoy me a bit.

The surprising thing is that the dealer came back saying that they have examined their entire stock and it is almost the same with every guitar they have and this is 'NORMAL'. They hesitantly took it back but it has left me a bit puzzled if this really is a common thing on Gibsons?

I now have a 2016 standard and it definitely doesn't have that issue. The binding and the neck is consistent throughout with well defined nibs.

So can someone shed any light on this? Is this really that common and was I really splitting hair as the dealer made it out to be like?


 

zacknorton

Active member
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
734
I sincerely hope that guitar went out the door as new and is being played.

sorry but that's just not a problem.

and you should consider yourself extremely lucky to have found a guitar that doesn't have a similar "issue" that's preventing you from accepting it.
 

shakdang

New member
Joined
Feb 2, 2020
Messages
13
I sincerely hope that guitar went out the door as new and is being played.

sorry but that's just not a problem.

and you should consider yourself extremely lucky to have found a guitar that doesn't have a similar "issue" that's preventing you from accepting it.


It was returned as received. With all the protective vinyl and tags still intact. It had a bunch more issues like wonky pots etc. which they said they can fix in-house. I am sure they would have been able to sell it again if it is considered normal.

Perhaps it is the way I grab the neck, but those fret ends were really poking out and the taper was very prominent to me. Anyway, I did find quite a few LP's with consistent binding and neck width, so not all that lucky :)

Thanks!
 

AA00475Bassman

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 26, 2016
Messages
3,770
For one the fret ends are capped by the binding the frets don't stand proud , This is a instrument built in volume , hope you find what your looking for ! The nib should conceal the fret end completely .
 

Arnold M.

Active member
Joined
Mar 29, 2018
Messages
296
I briefly owned a brand new 2020 Les Paul Standard 60's (unburst if that matters) that I had to return for various reasons. It was bought in Feb, 2020 from a very reputable dealer in UK.

Among some other issues (wonky pots / knobs, tool marks on fret board etc.) there was this issue around the 12th mark on the high 'e' side of the neck that really bothered me.

It almost looked as if someone took a heavy sander or grinder to the fretboard edge and gouged out good few millimetres, I am guessing, to perhaps correct the fretboard/neck and heel joint alignment or something?

It tapered in to such an extent that there wasn't enough binding left to create the nib and the sharp fret ends poked out for a few frets. I could also feel the taper when playing and it did annoy me a bit.

The surprising thing is that the dealer came back saying that they have examined their entire stock and it is almost the same with every guitar they have and this is 'NORMAL'. They hesitantly took it back but it has left me a bit puzzled if this really is a common thing on Gibsons?

I now have a 2016 standard and it definitely doesn't have that issue. The binding and the neck is consistent throughout with well defined nibs.

So can someone shed any light on this? Is this really that common and was I really splitting hair as the dealer made it out to be like?


only my personal opinion but I would never worry or fret about that binding .. to myself it's kind of a non-issue ... not belittling the issue but I think if someone wanted an absolute perfect guitar they would have to pay an individual builder and specify that there is nothing too small to let go, take your time and don't worry about the budget, perfection is the only goal ... costly endeavour
 

Arnold M.

Active member
Joined
Mar 29, 2018
Messages
296
I briefly owned a brand new 2020 Les Paul Standard 60's (unburst if that matters) that I had to return for various reasons. It was bought in Feb, 2020 from a very reputable dealer in UK.

Among some other issues (wonky pots / knobs, tool marks on fret board etc.) there was this issue around the 12th mark on the high 'e' side of the neck that really bothered me.

It almost looked as if someone took a heavy sander or grinder to the fretboard edge and gouged out good few millimetres, I am guessing, to perhaps correct the fretboard/neck and heel joint alignment or something?

It tapered in to such an extent that there wasn't enough binding left to create the nib and the sharp fret ends poked out for a few frets. I could also feel the taper when playing and it did annoy me a bit.

The surprising thing is that the dealer came back saying that they have examined their entire stock and it is almost the same with every guitar they have and this is 'NORMAL'. They hesitantly took it back but it has left me a bit puzzled if this really is a common thing on Gibsons?

I now have a 2016 standard and it definitely doesn't have that issue. The binding and the neck is consistent throughout with well defined nibs.

So can someone shed any light on this? Is this really that common and was I really splitting hair as the dealer made it out to be like?


I'm sorry, when I looked earlier I was focused on the fret nibs only and did not notice the thickness of the binding that thins out to almost nothing .. yea, the whole thing stinks .. it shouldn't have left the factory that way .. where is the QC ? does that look "normal" or correct ??? noooooo .. did you buy this guitar sight unseen by any chance ? the dealer should have disclosed this anomaly to you regardless ... failure to point this out seems not ethical ... as far as all the other in stock guitars being identical in defect ? it's possible, maybe the factory shipped a bad batch which gets back the the original point that they shouldn't have passed inspection .. I know it's only cosmetic but I would think any dealer would allow you to return the unit and issue a full refund .. otherwise you kind of got the shaft
 

Don

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 1, 2001
Messages
5,732
There's no way that I would've accepted this guitar. It looks like someone got a little overzealous with the binding scraping. This guitar never should've passed QC.
 

Arnold M.

Active member
Joined
Mar 29, 2018
Messages
296
times are tough for everyone, factory production is curtailed due to restrictions and dealers everywhere are screaming for inventory of which there is none .. I've seen inspectors reject product only to be over-ruled by someone higher up ... to rework this guitars at the factory looks expensive .. I think someone just took a chance, got permission to ship and crossed their fingers .. happens all the time in manufacturing .. regardless, this is not YOUR problem .. it's like buying a car with a paint defect, it's flawed, which, if this is pointed out by the dealer and you are happy to purchase the product regardless is fine .. but if you are kept in the dark that's just not right .. if you paid full retail for the guitar you 100% deserve a defect free product ... fair is fair I think the dealer should be doing a lot more for you than he seems to be doing ..
 

shakdang

New member
Joined
Feb 2, 2020
Messages
13
I'm sorry, when I looked earlier I was focused on the fret nibs only and did not notice the thickness of the binding that thins out to almost nothing .. yea, the whole thing stinks .. it shouldn't have left the factory that way .. where is the QC ? does that look "normal" or correct ??? noooooo .. did you buy this guitar sight unseen by any chance ? the dealer should have disclosed this anomaly to you regardless ... failure to point this out seems not ethical ... as far as all the other in stock guitars being identical in defect ? it's possible, maybe the factory shipped a bad batch which gets back the the original point that they shouldn't have passed inspection .. I know it's only cosmetic but I would think any dealer would allow you to return the unit and issue a full refund .. otherwise you kind of got the shaft

No worries. I didn't spot it either when looking visually. It's only when I started playing that the neck width felt weird around 12th that took a closer look and saw a good chunk of binding missing.

I bought this online (another lesson learnt) so didn't have a chance to inspect before purchase. The dealer wasn't aware of it (I'm willing to believe that) however after being made aware they still didn't accept this as a QA issue or even a fault. In UK, online purchases are protected under "distance selling" rules so they had to take it back if it was returned in immaculate condition, which it was. I got full refund back.

It could be a bad batch but I think a batch is split amongst several employees so unless they were all taking angle grinders to the neck I don't see how this could be a widespread issue.
 

shakdang

New member
Joined
Feb 2, 2020
Messages
13
There's no way that I would've accepted this guitar. It looks like someone got a little overzealous with the binding scraping. This guitar never should've passed QC.


That's it. That's another reason I sent it back .. I had a feeling it would hurt the resale as no one would want a guitar with that defect unless it was HEAVILY discounted. It is not an easy one to fix.
 

shakdang

New member
Joined
Feb 2, 2020
Messages
13
only my personal opinion but I would never worry or fret about that binding .. to myself it's kind of a non-issue ... not belittling the issue but I think if someone wanted an absolute perfect guitar they would have to pay an individual builder and specify that there is nothing too small to let go, take your time and don't worry about the budget, perfection is the only goal ... costly endeavour

if it was just cosmetic I probably wouldn't have worried about it .. in fact, my current LP had a chunk of nitro missing along edge of they body and I never thought twice about it when buying.

Missing binding = 1/8" width missing from the neck width .. the neck literally curves in around 12th. That affected playability and personally, was just not acceptable.
 

El Gringo

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 8, 2015
Messages
5,665
So how did it go returning the instrument ? Did you get a replacment ?
 

el84ster

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 10, 2001
Messages
1,420
This is so disappointing. Ugh, how do they ship guitars like that to dealers?
 

shakdang

New member
Joined
Feb 2, 2020
Messages
13
So how did it go returning the instrument ? Did you get a replacment ?

Sorry, I should have been a bit clearer.

Yes, the return went through OK in the end. The dealer was bound by UK's "distance selling" regulations as it was an online purchase. So although they were a bit reluctant they did refund me in full in the end. They didn't accept that this was a fault/issue though.
 
Top