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Pearly Gates pot values

mrbeasty

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Dec 19, 2002
Messages
114
So ... this is cork sniffing expedition.

I recent acquired a set of “cork sniffing” Whiskerbucker pickups from Cream T.
Supposedly the ultimate in the Pearly Gate’s tone recreation, with the highest level of details recreated.
The pickups arrived in a lovely box, look great, etc. yet there is not instructions on how to complete the cork sniffing circuit!?
Of course we are looking at the typical ‘50s wiring with four Centralab 500k pots and two .022 Bumble Bee caps ... but what does that mean in that guitar? 300k pots? 400k pots? 600k pots? 700k pots? all of the above?

Does anyone know what actual pot values Gibson threw in the Pearly Gates reissues? or in the original?
Thank you.
 

somebodyelseuk

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Jun 10, 2020
Messages
454
Email Cream T.
The method he uses to "perfect" the pickups would require him to have access to the guitar, from what I've read.
Unless the pots have been replaced, I assume they'll be 500k+. Caps could be anywhere, because of ageing. Either way, your chances of exactly matching it are between extremely slim and zero.
I'd just fit em and get on with playing it.
 

mrbeasty

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Dec 19, 2002
Messages
114
Email Cream T.

That’s the first thing I did, but my inquiries remain unanswered.

I agree that it would be extremely difficult to perfectly match the pot values, and somewhat pointless as a few Ohms are impossible to hear. That said, some “vectorialy correct” values seem in order in this case. A product such as this, with the claims of exceptional precision made, is for the obsessive customers, otherwise we’d stick with the “factory” Duncan PG pickups 😉. So, something like “mid-600k”, or “about 400k”, etc. would be great. Same with the caps.

Of course I can install these pickups with some “generic” high-value pots and I’m sure they will sound fine, but the point of this set (IMHO) was to eliminate the guessing game. So I’ll take any pointers, from Gibson or else ... 😬
 

somebodyelseuk

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Jun 10, 2020
Messages
454
That’s the first thing I did, but my inquiries remain unanswered.

I agree that it would be extremely difficult to perfectly match the pot values, and somewhat pointless as a few Ohms are impossible to hear. That said, some “vectorialy correct” values seem in order in this case. A product such as this, with the claims of exceptional precision made, is for the obsessive customers, otherwise we’d stick with the “factory” Duncan PG pickups 😉. So, something like “mid-600k”, or “about 400k”, etc. would be great. Same with the caps.

Of course I can install these pickups with some “generic” high-value pots and I’m sure they will sound fine, but the point of this set (IMHO) was to eliminate the guessing game. So I’ll take any pointers, from Gibson or else ... 😬
If you've got the time, GuitarGuitar in the UK has a used CC Pearly Gates for sale @£20k... They have a live chat popup.. Maybe worth asking them?
I'd be surprised if either they or Gibson didn't just say 500k, though.
 

Tarcisioo

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Oct 5, 2014
Messages
385
It's funny, pot values are extremely important on the guitar tone and makes total sense to consider it, BUT... The idea of buying a pickup that mimics someone else or even a POT that mimics someone else is... I don't know, you ain't the man. You may even be better. Have you ever thought you can sound better than Billy? Now that's game, make yourself your own guitar hero... At least that's how our guitar heroes made themselves guitar heroes... I think everyone tried to copy someone else until they figured out they had to come up with their own sound... Peter Green pops in my head instantly, but I guess that's valid for every guitar player that ever lived.

I would also add that playing a coin as a pick on .007 strings probably makes more difference in Billy sound than the kind of pickups he uses...
 

mrbeasty

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Dec 19, 2002
Messages
114
I'd be surprised if either they or Gibson didn't just say 500k, though.

That’s the stock answer indeed.


It's funny, pot values are extremely important on the guitar tone and makes total sense to consider it, BUT... The idea of buying a pickup that mimics someone else or even a POT that mimics someone else is... I don't know, you ain't the man. You may even be better. Have you ever thought you can sound better than Billy? Now that's game, make yourself your own guitar hero...

I hear you 100%. Believe me, I sound nothing like him and can’t play a single ZZTOP song. I’m more of a metal/fusiony guy ... but I like his tone! The tone is what I’m after. I have the Plexis, the boosts, etc. and these will “replace” a set of Throbak DT-102 with NOS wire that sound really really great. These new pickups have a high benchmark to pass.

So it is just something to do, yet if we’re going to do it, it would be nice to do it right the first time around.
 
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El Gringo

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Apr 8, 2015
Messages
5,657
That’s the stock answer indeed.




I hear you 100%. Believe me, I sound nothing like him and can’t play a single ZZTOP song. I’m more of a metal/fusiony guy ... but I like his tone! The tone is what I’m after. I have the Plexis, the boosts, etc. and these will “replace” a set of Throbak DT-102 with NOS wire that sound really really great. These new pickups have a high benchmark to pass.

So it is just something to do, yet if we’re going to do it, it would be nice to do it right the first time around.

Being a huge fan of ThroBak ( MXV-SLE-101 Plus with A5 Magnets ) I am curious to know why you swapped out your DT-102 pickups ?
 

Garincha

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Dec 25, 2005
Messages
385
A product such as this, with the claims of exceptional precision made, is for the obsessive customers, otherwise we’d stick with the “factory” Duncan PG pickups 😉. So, something like “mid-600k”, or “about 400k”, etc. would be great. Same with the caps.

Well, Seymour Duncan at least had the real thing on his workbench when he developed the PG-Pickup decades ago. You might want to ask him if he had taken measurements back then. But I would be very surprised if he did. People didn't care too much about exakt pot and cap values back in the days. It was 500k CTS and that was about it.

And if we are talking about values, which ones do you really want to know? The values those pots had in 1969 when Billy bought the guitar? In 71 when he recorded "Brown Sugar", in '83 when they recorded "Eliminator"? Or even today?`

Using a pot is always abrasive so you can be very sure, that the pots (given they are still original to the guitar) may have shifted extremly in their values. Same goes for the caps. Those parts do age and very much so.

Bottom line: It is pretty pointless to hunt for Pearly Gates Pot values as we will never know what they read when those legendary tones were recorded.
 

mrbeasty

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Dec 19, 2002
Messages
114
Being a huge fan of ThroBak ( MXV-SLE-101 Plus with A5 Magnets ) I am curious to know why you swapped out your DT-102 pickups ?

Because it’s cheaper than buying yet another guitar to house these new pickups.��
Honestly, they will go back-in if I am not blown away by the Whiskerbucker pickups, and if I’m blown away, they’ll go in another guitar.��
 
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mrbeasty

New member
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
114
Well, Seymour Duncan at least had the real thing on his workbench when he developed the PG-Pickup decades ago. You might want to ask him if he had taken measurements back then. But I would be very surprised if he did. People didn't care too much about exakt pot and cap values back in the days. It was 500k CTS and that was about it.

And if we are talking about values, which ones do you really want to know? The values those pots had in 1969 when Billy bought the guitar? In 71 when he recorded "Brown Sugar", in '83 when they recorded "Eliminator"? Or even today?`

Using a pot is always abrasive so you can be very sure, that the pots (given they are still original to the guitar) may have shifted extremly in their values. Same goes for the caps. Those parts do age and very much so.

Bottom line: It is pretty pointless to hunt for Pearly Gates Pot values as we will never know what they read when those legendary tones were recorded.

Thomas Nielsen at Cream T has made pickups for Billy G. for about ten years. He currently has four signature pickups with Gibbons (but who doesn’t, right!?). The claim around the Whiskerbuckers is that Thomas has figured-out a new way to measure a pickup and to recreate it with unequaled precision. He had Pearly Gates under his “Oracle” machine to measure its every details. He did the same with Bernie Marsden’s The Beast, Billy G.’s Pearly Gates, and a few other famous ‘59s. So, my point is that if we’re going to play that game and be super anal about the specs, it should include the full signal path.

After spending the money asked, it seems silly to put a 450k pot where a 625k was, and vice versa.

I agree with your statement about Seymour and the pot values back in the day, although the old Centralabs were all over the place and Seymour is a “details guy”. So who knows? ... the SD Custom Shop is closed at the moment so there is no way to inquire.
 

elcidd

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Dec 13, 2002
Messages
203
I swapped out the harness in my Pearly reissue for VIP pots. If memory serves, stock pots were just 500k CTS.
As to actual values, I highly doubt Gibson used the exact same value on the 350 Pearly-inspired models. Just grabbed pots out of the bins...which ironically IS the way they would have done it in '59.

Personally, I always try to get pots close to 500k values, as opposed to the trend for 550k. I figure most of the old pots were 500 and under.

FWIW, It's my understanding that Thomas "scanned" the pickups in Pearly without removing anything. If so, then he wouldn't have the actual pot values either.

Sorry this won't help you in your quest. I totally get it, as I've gone down that path many a time. So while I can't help you, I applaud your desire to get it exactly right. :yah
 

mrbeasty

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Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
114
I swapped out the harness in my Pearly reissue for VIP pots. If memory serves, stock pots were just 500k CTS.
As to actual values, I highly doubt Gibson used the exact same value on the 350 Pearly-inspired models. Just grabbed pots out of the bins...which ironically IS the way they would have done it in '59.

Personally, I always try to get pots close to 500k values, as opposed to the trend for 550k. I figure most of the old pots were 500 and under.

FWIW, It's my understanding that Thomas "scanned" the pickups in Pearly without removing anything. If so, then he wouldn't have the actual pot values either.

Sorry this won't help you in your quest. I totally get it, as I've gone down that path many a time. So while I can't help you, I applaud your desire to get it exactly right. :yah

Thank you for your input.
With all the people who had access to Pearly over the years, I was hoping that the values would have leaked-out ... since the old Centralab pot values are all over the place and many drifted wildly, any guess seems near impossible. LOL
Not to mention that the pots may have been replaced many times by now.
 

Sol

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Oct 26, 2001
Messages
775
Thank you for your input.
With all the people who had access to Pearly over the years, I was hoping that the values would have leaked-out ... since the old Centralab pot values are all over the place and many drifted wildly, any guess seems near impossible. LOL
Not to mention that the pots may have been replaced many times by now.

Perhaps approaching your goal as a project may help? Get yourself a range of pots all varying in resistance, and methodically work your way through, taking notes and recordings as you go.

There's real value in such an approach due to the ear perceiving sounds heard in playback that are so easily missed in real time.
 

duaneflowers

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Aug 13, 2013
Messages
2,522
500k CTS in my Pearly as well... no surprises there.

Thomas is slow but he'll get back to you eventually.

Here's a prototype set of Cream T Blonde Bangors

LQN2xfm.png
 

samll

New member
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Nov 24, 2020
Messages
1
500k CTS in my Pearly as well... no surprises there.


Thomas is slow but he'll get back to you eventually.

Here's a prototype set of Cream T Blonde Bangors!

man this thing looks gorgeous !
 
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