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2020 R0 figured top has dead notes...

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MacFangus

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143
Victory Pete said:
Yes I think the Hide Glue affects the tone. What is funny is the originals didn't use Hide Glue, but some kind of Formaldehyde Glue. In any even it wasn't Titebond.
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Gibson has never used Urea-Formaldehyde glue on the fretboard or neck joint; as it is irreversible. Body, yes... neck/fretboard... no-way.
 
mrbeasty

mrbeasty

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Victory Pete said:
My first LP was a 2001 Classic. It was my main guitar for 17 years until I got a 2018 R0. Just got another 2018 R0 last spring. I have noticed on the R0s that some notes sustain more than others. My Classic on the other hand is consistent all over but does not have the Snap, Crack, Pop of the R0s. That Classic though does have a great sound of its own, very seventies rock sound. The wood and construction methods makes all the difference.
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I am emotionally attached to my ‘96 Classic so I really tried to resolve its flaws. In short, one must replace everything: Those 300k pots, all the hardware, and maybe the pickups (a personal taste thing). Thankfully, nowadays, there are ways to improve resonance (like longer posts, better metal, increase contact points, etc.) and remedy dead notes and lack of sustain (to a point of course). Mine is at least twice as loud unplugged than it was stock. It is now on par with my “top shelf” Les Pauls. It is hard to say if it is better as not two sound alike unplugged and they all have different electronics, but it is no longer the lemon in the bunch.
 
M

MacFangus

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Victory Pete said:
Makes sense, I wonder what they used? Hide?
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Hot hide glue at the neck/body and fretboard/neck up to the second half of 1960. Hide glue dries to a hard crystalline; which makes the guitar sound closer to that of a bolt-on neck guitar. It's tuff to beat the sound of a bolt-on neck, but then nothing growls like a Gibby! :)
 
V

Victory Pete

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Dec 2, 2009
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254
mrbeasty said:
I am emotionally attached to my ‘96 Classic so I really tried to resolve its flaws. In short, one must replace everything: Those 300k pots, all the hardware, and maybe the pickups (a personal taste thing). Thankfully, nowadays, there are ways to improve resonance (like longer posts, better metal, increase contact points, etc.) and remedy dead notes and lack of sustain (to a point of course). Mine is at least twice as loud unplugged than it was stock. It is now on par with my “top shelf” Les Pauls. It is hard to say if it is better as not two sound alike unplugged and they all have different electronics, but it is no longer the lemon in the bunch.
Click to expand...

My Classic has always sounded great to me, no dead notes and loads of sustain. I love the 500T 496R pickups.
 
V

Victory Pete

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Dec 2, 2009
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254
MacFangus said:
Hot hide glue at the neck/body and fretboard/neck up to the second half of 1960. Hide glue dries to a hard crystalline; which makes the guitar sound closer to that of a bolt-on neck guitar. It's tuff to beat the sound of a bolt-on neck, but then nothing growls like a Gibby! :)
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Is this confirmed? Why wouldn't they use hide on the top and back too?
 
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MacFangus

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Victory Pete said:
Is this confirmed? Why wouldn't they use hide on the top and back too?
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I've been trying to confirm this, but I'm not getting any response from Gibson. They're running with a small crew; due to COMID-19 restrictions. I' assume the switch from hide to synthetic glue was done to cut-down on production time; thus increasing per quarter profits. Same goes with plasticizer in the nitro... Back in the day, each guitar was left to "cure" for 3O days before being finalized. Plasticizer was added to decrease the dry time.

For CS models, I would think that all surface mating is done using hide glue.
 
V

Victory Pete

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254
MacFangus said:
I've been trying to confirm this, but I'm not getting any response from Gibson. They're running with a small crew; due to COMID-19 restrictions. I' assume the switch from hide to synthetic glue was done to cut-down on production time; thus increasing per quarter profits. Same goes with plasticizer in the nitro... Back in the day, each guitar was left to "cure" for 3O days before being finalized. Plasticizer was added to decrease the dry time.

For CS models, I would think that all surface mating is done using hide glue.
Click to expand...

Interesting topic, I think hide glue is great, dries very hard and is very natural.
 
somebodyelseuk

somebodyelseuk

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457
Victory Pete said:
Is this confirmed? Why wouldn't they use hide on the top and back too?
Click to expand...
Fingerboard to neck and neck to body was hide glue. Thing is, it's waterbased and dries by evaporation. Using it for the top to body was impractical, since it would take months for it to cure in those circumstances. They used phenol formaldehyde glue for the tops, as it cures by heat, and apparently "microwaved" it.
As with most of the bits on the reissues, I suspect the hot hide glue they use today is not 100% exactly the same as used 'back in the day', and that phenol formaldehyde glue is probably banned, these days.
 
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Victory Pete

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somebodyelseuk said:
Fingerboard to neck and neck to body was hide glue. Thing is, it's waterbased and dries by evaporation. Using it for the top to body was impractical, since it would take months for it to cure in those circumstances. They used phenol formaldehyde glue for the tops, as it cures by heat, and apparently "microwaved" it.
As with most of the bits on the reissues, I suspect the hot hide glue they use today is not 100% exactly the same as used 'back in the day', and that phenol formaldehyde glue is probably banned, these days.
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I think months to cure is a bit of an exaggeration. It hardens as it cools off also. I have never used hide glue so I don't know how long it would take to fully harden and dry.
 
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MacFangus

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How about a neck-thru LP Standard w/mahogany back and maple top? Anyone?
 
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somebodyelseuk

somebodyelseuk

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457
MacFangus said:
How about a neck-thru LP Standard w/mahogany back and maple top? Anyone?
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No thanks. Been there, done that, sort of. Played Yamaha SGs in the 80s - a 1000S and 2000S. The 2000 is neck thru' and a load of other gimmicks, the 1000 is set neck etc, bridge screwed in to the maple. The 1000 is the better guitar.
 
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