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Gibson Red Stains

THRobinson

New member
Joined
May 23, 2020
Messages
6
Hey guys, I have an old Hagstrom LP.... yup an LP.... for the first year they called them an LP, Gibson threatened to sue, and now called the Hagstrom Swede.

Anyways... someone at some time stripped off all the poly coating and took it down to wood and looks like paint-brushed on shellac? maybe?

Use to be a deep red colour, based on photos, I'm thinking around an SG Heritage Red, or maybe the Cherry red on the back sides of many Les Pauls.

I want to restore this and I have no dyes/stains or scrap mahogany to test on. I simply want to strip it back down and make it red again. I'm really hoping with the popularity of these guitars and colours, that some people may be able to tell me exactly what I need to buy/mix to achieve these colours.

This is what I am going for.... (pic below)... plan is to stain it, use zpoxy as a grain filler, then debating to go Belhan/Mohawk vinyl sealer then nitro? or... the original was polyester, so maybe use something like Solarez.

I'm in Canada so, stuff like Reranch is a no go.

Anyone have any "recipes" for this colour?

ee8818c7ffc5195e0fb123ebc0c40c4d.jpg
 

fred dons

Active member
Joined
Jul 20, 2001
Messages
318
best way for me to get a proper cherry red is the Stew Mac colortone cherry red stain, if you have an airbrush you can spray in on undiluted and it even sticks to poly, if you have bare wood you can dilute the stain with water and the mahogany will absorb the stain to a nice gibson cherry (do a few test for how much dilution you need, usually a few drops in a cup of water is sufficient)
when dry you need to do a clearcoat
 

THRobinson

New member
Joined
May 23, 2020
Messages
6
Is that StewMac stuff made to be the same? I saw a few sites where they mixed colours but never say what.

My plan is to sand back to wood, stain, then grain fill using zpoxy. After that, not sure. I wanted to try nitro for once but originally the guitar was polyester, so may try solarez.

Maybe stain black, sand then cherry.

Never stained before so don't have anything to use, and not a builder so no scraps to test on. Don't really wanna buy a few hundred bucks worth of stuff to test with. :)
 

fred dons

Active member
Joined
Jul 20, 2001
Messages
318
the stewmac stuff basically is oem and the same stuff as Transtin so if you cannot get hold of Colortone get that stuff instead. you can mix it with cellulose or use it directly on the guitar. A lot of companies use it, I use it on my les paul copies and it is a great stain to use (all colors)
for cherry on mahogany I use perhaps 1 teaspoon in a glass of water and that is enough to stain a full guitar. filler is something else and it is a horrible process, I use the technique I believe gibson uses, which is mix the stain with the filler (waterbased) and apply that, after sanding it back i stain again to get an even color and that works for me
 

THRobinson

New member
Joined
May 23, 2020
Messages
6
I've been reading up on stain processes and seems that everyone has a different method.

The one I saw/liked was to use z-poxy and fill the grain that way. I bought some, not used it yet.

video

I also read Gibson uses a walnut tinted water based filler then uses the cherry tint in the lacquer. Saw a few vids of people using the Reranch or StewMac spray cans, but In Canada so not an option. I can get Mokawk/Behlan nitro in a spray or tin can, but I don't have a sprayer yet plus I hear that stuff makes quite the stink. I want to try using nitro some day, just to see how it goes, but again, this guitar was originally polyester, so I'll likely use polyester/urethane.

What I was thinking was to stain black or very dark brown, sand it back, then stain cherry until very dark. Darker than my photo example. Sand it back a little... then use the z-poxy. Downside to that is, one I use the z-poxy there's no real sanding it back again, which makes me hesitant.

Not sure how well it will stain after the z-poxy, though if make any mistakes it's easier to sand back.

I had a thread elsewhere, and in passing someone mentioned the stain, said they used the ColorFX Dye Concentrate, they said they mixed Cherry and Bordeaux, which suprised me because one was semi purple and the other a warm brown... but I'm used to mixing colour for painting (watercolours on paper) not for a brown surface like wood.

ColorFX Colours
 

fred dons

Active member
Joined
Jul 20, 2001
Messages
318
zpoxy works as a filler and has very little shrinkage, which is a good thing but it is also water repellent so if you do not sand back to the bare wood and only leave the filler in the pores, you will get spots where the stain will not stain the wood create light spots

also the zpoxy is transparent which will leave light specks where the pores are, if you look at a gibson with a cherry finish these pores are dark red or even black, so you will have to color the zpoxy first before applying it
 

fred dons

Active member
Joined
Jul 20, 2001
Messages
318
to your other question, yes sometimes you need to get creative to get to the right color, and that depends on the wood used or the brand of stain

original gibson cherry has some blue in it (that is the part which turns amber/green when the red part fades on a cherry sunburst making it a lemonburst) and not all cherry stains are right right out of the box, same are just a deep fire engine red.
also it depends on what "cherry red" you would like to go for, like "new" cherry or faded to a red/brown

and then the wood, some mahogany can very light in color making it much redder in appearance after the stain, others could be dark creating a red/chocolate color , so experiment with it before you commit (I usually try it out in the electronics cavity first)
 
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