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58 better then 60 in sound?

hydraman

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Jun 3, 2020
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7
I had a 58 and 59 now I wanted to buy a 1960 Les Paul although I don't know im hesitating between the 58 and 1960 ,the 1960 is 800 dollars more and the 58 is a made 2 measure with flames and im hesitating.I heard the new 60 is amazing but in sound and future which one is worth more at the end? I like skinny and thicker necks have small hands im still hesitating!
 

Tim Plains

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Aug 1, 2013
Messages
795
They're both the same guitar with different neck shapes. What makes you think all 58s sound better than all 60s?
 

Bruce R

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Mar 2, 2007
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1,028
They're both the same guitar with different neck shapes. What makes you think all 58s sound better than all 60s?

Exactly right! I played a run-of-the-mill R8 for many years and loved how it just had a fat sound, regardless of what pickups I used. I think the best example of a sonic difference may be the R8 versus an SG, which has less body & neck mass. Perhaps the R0 may fall between the SG and an R8? Either way, I don't see how big of a difference would be between an R8 and an R0. If there was, then perhaps a pickup swap or amp tone settings would easily remedy it.

Play the guitar that feels best to you. I recently switched to an R0 because I just needed a smaller neck, but because of this covid thing have yet to gig with it. I am chomping at the bit!
 

EXPLRGAB

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Jul 4, 2020
Messages
108
Just purchased a Wildwood Spec....Gibson Custom Shop 2019, R8...The guitar, among others, was demoed by greg koch and it was a stunner...yeah it looked great,,but how it sounded really caught my attention. at the end of the day i asked the staff..To Wit: Lance, to check out 5 guitars...three were 60s, two were 58s with a 60s style slim neck...I asked Lance to pick the best one.....I felt that in the era of covid I would have to rely specifically upon Lance. He is a real LP professor....GREAT SERVICE.....I asked to have them all played acoustically....loudness, resonance...sustain..etc..Lance was way ahead of me.......after several days....Lance said that there was a clear winner ....the R8...and i purchased that particular one.....SERIAL # 89845......you can go on YOUTUBE and see Mr Koch playing this very guitar which i now have...that should give you terms of reference........now R8s do not have the jumbo frets...but smaller fret wire,,,IMO..that sets up a sweeter, articulate nuanced attack..bearing down into a bend or with heavy vibrato...it really cuts...searing yet retains body and high end...BUT IT IS DIFFERENT than the 59 and 60s all of which are fantastic GIBSON Custom Shop Les Pauls............WILDWOOD SPEC, UNDERWOUND CUSTOM BUCKERS, sound fantastic....musical...playing it ,,,,,,is inspirational in the extreme...it takes you places you could not get with anything else. ....AS FOR THE FRETS ..i am all over it...bends and vibrato very good.....this is.my first gibson in 30 years..been playing a strats...GET ONE R8, R9, RO..........THIS R8 IS A SPECTACULAR GUITAR. Clearly worth it....
 

Big Al

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Apr 24, 2002
Messages
14,531
These things get judged on an individual basis. I don't think you should buy either one until you know what and why you need to buy. What is this a whim? You buy the one you need to buy.
 

renderit

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Joined
Jan 19, 2009
Messages
10,947
Just purchased a Wildwood Spec....Gibson Custom Shop 2019, R8...The guitar, among others, was demoed by greg koch and it was a stunner...yeah it looked great,,but how it sounded really caught my attention. at the end of the day i asked the staff..To Wit: Lance, to check out 5 guitars...three were 60s, two were 58s with a 60s style slim neck...I asked Lance to pick the best one.....I felt that in the era of covid I would have to rely specifically upon Lance. He is a real LP professor....GREAT SERVICE.....I asked to have them all played acoustically....loudness, resonance...sustain..etc..Lance was way ahead of me.......after several days....Lance said that there was a clear winner ....the R8...and i purchased that particular one.....SERIAL # 89845......you can go on YOUTUBE and see Mr Koch playing this very guitar which i now have...that should give you terms of reference........now R8s do not have the jumbo frets...but smaller fret wire,,,IMO..that sets up a sweeter, articulate nuanced attack..bearing down into a bend or with heavy vibrato...it really cuts...searing yet retains body and high end...BUT IT IS DIFFERENT than the 59 and 60s all of which are fantastic GIBSON Custom Shop Les Pauls............WILDWOOD SPEC, UNDERWOUND CUSTOM BUCKERS, sound fantastic....musical...playing it ,,,,,,is inspirational in the extreme...it takes you places you could not get with anything else. ....AS FOR THE FRETS ..i am all over it...bends and vibrato very good.....this is.my first gibson in 30 years..been playing a strats...GET ONE R8, R9, RO..........THIS R8 IS A SPECTACULAR GUITAR. Clearly worth it....

Lance never steered me wrong.

I still have every guitar I asked him to play and he was impressed with.
 

EXPLRGAB

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Joined
Jul 4, 2020
Messages
108
Lance never steered me wrong.

I still have every guitar I asked him to play and he was impressed with.

In the runup to getting the R8, I scoured all available sources...and I read about the hassle free, quality experience dealing with Wildwood....I most probably am indebted to you personally and others for the glowing 1st hand account (s) of dealing with Wildwood...and Lance. Well I've never been right but I've never been wrong. It seldom turns out the way it does in the song.....Sometimes you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

Thank You,
George
 

MacFangus

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Oct 10, 2016
Messages
143
In my experience... The thicker the neck, the better the tone/sustain. No less than .9 @ 1st fret for me. I also prefer the True Historic rolled-edge neck binding w/finished end frets.

IMG_2976.jpgIMG_2975.jpg
 

goldtop0

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Aug 19, 2003
Messages
8,919
The fat neck being more toneful with more sustain versus a slim taper neck is an old wives tale pretty much..........each guitar stands on its own merits one way or the other.........the many parts make up the whole. I personally love a fat neck for comfort and like the rounded fat necks.
But, Gibson aren't producing 'fat' necked guitars as such any more, they're very much a thing of the past, it's mostly medium C shape and slimmer '60s and early '60s SG shapes we're seeing from CS in the last 15 years or so which is a bummer.
 
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herb

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Jan 13, 2002
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981
Just listened to that Wildwood demo of 8 9845. Good choice!
 

JPP-1

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Jul 11, 2006
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1,336
Well said, I find it mind numbing the level of stupidity of some of these threads, does a 58 sound better than a 60, does a red guitar sound better than a blue guitar? you must be kidding.

The reason why Gibson is making smaller neck carves is because they more accurately reflect the neck specs of actual Bursts which is what apparently everyone wants. Regardless of Burst likeness. I prefer the smaller neck sizes and find fat necks can sometimes dampen resonance. But again it really depends on the totality of the guitar and how all the various parts interact.





The fat neck being more toneful with more sustain versus a slim taper neck is an old wives tale pretty much..........each guitar stands on its own merits one way or the other.........the many parts make up the whole. I personally love a fat neck for comfort and like the rounded fat necks.
But, Gibson aren't producing 'fat' necked guitars as such any more, they're very much a thing of the past, it's mostly medium C shape and slimmer '60s and early '60s SG shapes we're seeing from CS in the last 15 years or so which is a bummer.
 

Sol

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Oct 26, 2001
Messages
775
IMHO It's the stiffness of the neck, and it's resistance to the strings vibration that best preserves sustain, harmonic detail and dynamic range.
A nice fat quarter sawn Mahogany neck will deliver every time, and those slim late 1960 les Paul's, lacked nothing with carefully judged tension on the truss rod deliver tone equal to the fatter necks of 57-59.
 

EXPLRGAB

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Jul 4, 2020
Messages
108
Just listened to that Wildwood demo of 8 9845. Good choice!
Thanks Herb...... 8.42 lbs with underwound Custom buckers....it had the sweetness...and when pushed it had the tone, mojo....and sustain..I had watched GREG KOCH play quite a few wildwood offerings....I think the instrument really inspired his playing on this particular guitar...As a great guitar should.
 

MacFangus

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Oct 10, 2016
Messages
143
The fat neck being more toneful with more sustain versus a slim taper neck is an old wives tale...
No, it's not. Any time you add mass to the neck and headstock, there is a marked improvement in resonate frequency matching resistance, and improved sustain. It is a key component of the 50's era LP sound. Go big, or go home. :salude
 

lare65

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Feb 18, 2017
Messages
110
No, it's not. Any time you add mass to the neck and headstock, there is a marked improvement in resonate frequency matching resistance, and improved sustain. It is a key component of the 50's era LP sound. Go big, or go home. :salude

But the necks on the 50´s era LP´s isn´t as big as the Gibson CS reissues, go figure:hmm
 

lare65

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Feb 18, 2017
Messages
110
In my experience fat necks deliver more bass, thin necks more mids. I might be wrong, but thats my 2 cent.
 

MacFangus

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Oct 10, 2016
Messages
143
But the necks on the 50´s era LP´s isn´t as big as the Gibson CS reissues, go figure:hmm
Per my limited experience...
I found this to be the case with most every Henry J. era Historic model I've ever played. All three of my early/mid 2000 '68 LPC models had a huge neck w/non rolled-edge binding. The playing experience was laborous, and uncomfortable. My 2010 R0 was one of the worst sounding LP's I've ever owned. It was heavy, and had a neck that felt like it was shaped for a kid. From one extreme to the next... Crazy! It also had a oddly shaded red back which (IMO) looked awful. I guess is was supposed to appear as faded? It was sort-of a brownish red color, maybe? Weird.

Rant...
I say this without reserve... I've owned Norlin era models that exceed Henry J. era Historic's is every department, except for weight. One of the key elements to 50's Gibson tone is hide glue. It took Gibson until 2013 to figure this out? Wrong glue, incorrect neck sizing, non rolled-edge binding, UV resistant dyes (which some my like), wrong pick guard, sleeved truss rod, etc... Solution? Release a True Historic! That's one hell of a way to tell all pre-2013/2015 owners that your Historic LP is not a true representation of a 50's/60's era model. Was Gibson actually selling both Historic and True Historic models at the same time? Whatever... what's done is done.

Emotional wave ahead...
My recent model Historic's are spot-on! They play like a dream, and they sound incredible! Even unplugged, they are an absolute joy to play. I'm also loving the sound/response of the alnico 3 Custombucker pickups. One word... Nuance. I wouldn't change them out for anything.

I've read that the latest '68 LPC Historic has a neck that is sized somewhere between .89 to .91 w/rolled-edge binding. If this is the case, I con't wait to get my hands on one. :salude
 

MacFangus

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Oct 10, 2016
Messages
143
In my experience fat necks deliver more bass, thin necks more mids. I might be wrong, but thats my 2 cent.
ABR-1 bridge material, adjustment wheel material, saddle material, and the depth of the saddle notch can also have an affect on tone.
 
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