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Gibson offering $59k reward for late 1950's ledger

El Gringo

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Apr 8, 2015
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5,657
I think it's really cool that the new Gibson team wants the ledger and is willing to pay for it - shows the passion in the brand and its history.

Unfortunately it is my guess that that ledger is gone forever. Gibson never really put a lot of stock in the value of keeping good records, unlike outfits like Martin. I have a 1934 Martin O-17 (my first guitar) that they were instantly able to tell me the day it was born, shipped, etc.

I don't think the ledgers should be in the public domain - too easy for those making fugazis to have easy access to a full array of vintage serial numbers to copy IMHO.

:hank

So true and some things should remain private exactly for the reasons you mentioned as there are far to many knock offs.
 

Aloha_Ark

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Apr 2, 2020
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154
I've never seen a ledger from any year, but at least someone at Gibson has finally allowed a representative to hold a book before the camera.

Cesar is one of the managers, and he is holding the 1952 Gibson Les Paul ledger in the screenshot below.

1952_gibson_ledger_book.jpg


Time stamp is roughly 4:14. I would say the length is at least 15". Pretty hard to sneak that outside the factory, but the '59 ledger could have been stolen by someone with a large umbrella. All you sleuths now know what to look for.
 

DANELECTRO

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Feb 24, 2003
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6,318
That would be really awesome if Gibson would assign somebody the task of scanning all of the ledgers and making them available online.

For one thing, it would just be a really nice gesture on Gibson's behalf to share the historical information. There are many Gibson aficionados out there who would be enlightened to learn about the date that their vintage guitar left the factory and where it was shipped to. Sort of an Ancestry.com insight about their guitar.

Secondly, it would mean that Gibson would no longer need to take the time to answer inquiries from owners asking for ledger information about their guitar.

Yet another benefit is that once scanned, the ledger information would be archived for eternity and the original ledger books could be tucked away in a safe place so that people aren't pawing over them on a regular basis.

If the ledgers were posted online, you can bet that the website would receive thousands of hits a day, so it could be a good opportunity for Gibson to advertise their current models in the website's sidebars.

As far as the missing late 1950's ledger goes, I seriously doubt that it will ever show up. Its been missing for what, 40+ years? If the person who grabbed it has since passed away, its very possible that the book was simply thrown away when the estate was cleaned out . Who knows. It seems unlikely after all these years that it will be found, but then again who would have ever thought that Frampton's Custom would show up after all these years.
 

mrbeasty

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Dec 19, 2002
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114
I think a chance to see accurate ledgers from 1967-1975 would be far more interesting. That was the era of the utterly screwed up serials.

Bob

Yes!!! Although the big money is currently in the 1957-1960 bracket, so that is where they will spend their energy.
If they ever find that ledger, the next step will be to hunt down every single guitar and put a name to each one. They’ll play it like ~700 Holy Grail Quests: LPs, Vs, etc.
 

mrbeasty

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Dec 19, 2002
Messages
114
If it is somewhere it would probably be Kalamazoo ... if not at Heritage, it would be with some one who was at Gibson/Heritage. That said it could have been junked during the split or since, including in an estate clearance ... but stranger things have happened, and if it does turn-up, the PR machine will milk it for every bit of its $59,000 price tag. I am not impressed by the new management incessant need to pose, although it seems that some nice instruments are being made.
 

Wally

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Feb 27, 2003
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3,535
I think a chance to see accurate ledgers from 1967-1975 would be far more interesting. That was the era of the utterly screwed up serials.

Bob

You might want to expand that dating to go back to 1963 when the six digit numbers were introduced. My 1966 ES-345TDC, which I bought new in June, 1967, has a serial number that fits 1966....or 1969 and three years out of the ‘70s. The details prove it is a ‘66 even I had not bought it new.

As for that ledger, I heard a rumor that is was found in Kalamazoo after Gibson left and Heritage employees used it for toilet paper???????

(8^0
 

J.D.

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May 24, 2006
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10,030
I suspect whoever first nabbed this knows exactly the importance and value of this list, and whoever currently has it does as well. I don't for a minute believe this list was lost or destroyed.

This information, if made public, would wreak havoc via the forgery market. Previously "missing" 'Bursts would start appearing very quickly LOL.

My bet would be that it's currently in the possession of a serious 'Burst collector (likely in a very secure place). If this guess is correct, I'd then speculate that said custodian would value this ledger far higher than $59K.

No idea why Gibson management would want/need it back quite honestly, other than a publicity stunt.
 

miczap

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Oct 31, 2018
Messages
213
I suspect whoever first nabbed this knows exactly the importance and value of this list, and whoever currently has it does as well. I don't for a minute believe this list was lost or destroyed.

This information, if made public, would wreak havoc via the forgery market. Previously "missing" 'Bursts would start appearing very quickly LOL.

My bet would be that it's currently in the possession of a serious 'Burst collector (likely in a very secure place). If this guess is correct, I'd then speculate that said custodian would value this ledger far higher than $59K.

No idea why Gibson management would want/need it back quite honestly, other than a publicity stunt.

Perhaps it's worth $1.959m? :laugh2:

Personally, I believe that historical records only raise the fidelity of our appreciation & understanding. It may even reduce forgeries in that way.
 

walter carter

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Feb 5, 2002
Messages
5
I suspect whoever first nabbed this knows exactly the importance and value of this list, and whoever currently has it does as well. I don't for a minute believe this list was lost or destroyed.

This information, if made public, would wreak havoc via the forgery market. Previously "missing" 'Bursts would start appearing very quickly LOL.

My bet would be that it's currently in the possession of a serious 'Burst collector (likely in a very secure place). If this guess is correct, I'd then speculate that said custodian would value this ledger far higher than $59K.

No idea why Gibson management would want/need it back quite honestly, other than a publicity stunt.

I would never say never when it comes to Gibson, so I would say it is highly, highly unlikely that this book ever existed. Every Gibson shipping ledger, starting in 1935, goes to the end of the book. The ledger from 1958 ends in mid-book, in mid-year, at the end of June. The shipping records do not pick up in later years. There is no shipping ledger after June 1958. (All of the 1960s ledgers are serial number logs, not shipping records.)

The abrupt end of shipping records suggests that something changed at Gibson. Gil Hembree has noted in his bio of Ted McCarty that some time in 1958 Gibson hired Mac McConakie to take over production control (which had been one of Julius Bellson's many duties). Whether that change in management had anything to do with shipping logs is pure speculation at this point, but that is the only clue I've turned up.
 

garywright

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Aug 17, 2002
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15,583
I would never say never when it comes to Gibson, so I would say it is highly, highly unlikely that this book ever existed. Every Gibson shipping ledger, starting in 1935, goes to the end of the book. The ledger from 1958 ends in mid-book, in mid-year, at the end of June. The shipping records do not pick up in later years. There is no shipping ledger after June 1958. (All of the 1960s ledgers are serial number logs, not shipping records.)

The abrupt end of shipping records suggests that something changed at Gibson. Gil Hembree has noted in his bio of Ted McCarty that some time in 1958 Gibson hired Mac McConakie to take over production control (which had been one of Julius Bellson's many duties). Whether that change in management had anything to do with shipping logs is pure speculation at this point, but that is the only clue I've turned up.

very interesting post Walter :salude
 

J.D.

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May 24, 2006
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10,030
Indeed. As long as I've heard of the "missing pages" (decades) this is the first I'm hearing that they never existed in the first place.
 

TM1

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Jun 27, 2003
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8,349
I for one, would like to know the date that my `59 cherry L.P. Special left Kalamazoo and where it went..
 

jimmi

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Oct 8, 2012
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2,077
I would never say never when it comes to Gibson, so I would say it is highly, highly unlikely that this book ever existed. Every Gibson shipping ledger, starting in 1935, goes to the end of the book. The ledger from 1958 ends in mid-book, in mid-year, at the end of June. The shipping records do not pick up in later years. There is no shipping ledger after June 1958. (All of the 1960s ledgers are serial number logs, not shipping records.)

The abrupt end of shipping records suggests that something changed at Gibson. Gil Hembree has noted in his bio of Ted McCarty that some time in 1958 Gibson hired Mac McConakie to take over production control (which had been one of Julius Bellson's many duties). Whether that change in management had anything to do with shipping logs is pure speculation at this point, but that is the only clue I've turned up.


Very Interesting information. Nice to see you on here. You have a lot to contribute.
 

jb_abides

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Apr 6, 2005
Messages
5,274
I never read this 2020 Forbes article when the Great Ledger Search was first announced. I am posting here now in case anyone's interested. The content is typical of how the mainstream finance world portrays an intersection with highly sought collectibles, so more puff and quotes than news... but fun nonetheless and I wanted to capture it... didn't feel the need for a new thread, so here it goes:

 
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