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1959 Les Paul Special Refret Devaluation Question

Ed A

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Jul 16, 2001
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Hey all... got a question for ya.... an all original 100% untouched, excellent condition, never unsoldered '59 double cut cherry Special with original frets (been leveled in the past and now too low for my preference)... if it gets refretted to make it more playable what are we looking at drop in value?... if any at all... Thanks!
 
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somebodyelseuk

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Jun 10, 2020
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Would you start a 60 year old car that had its original engine oil in the sump?
If the frets are worn out
a, it doesn't sound or play as good as it should
b, it's stopped being a guitar and is just an expensive paperweight
c, it's not a burst, so while it won't lose value, it'll never be worth as much as your house.

If it's done properly, with the right wire gauge I doubt its value would be affected.
 

sws1

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Dec 4, 2001
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Would you start a 60 year old car that had its original engine oil in the sump?
If the frets are worn out
a, it doesn't sound or play as good as it should
b, it's stopped being a guitar and is just an expensive paperweight
c, it's not a burst, so while it won't lose value, it'll never be worth as much as your house.

If it's done properly, with the right wire gauge I doubt its value would be affected.

Saying this another way...if the guitar is not playable, it doesn't have the value you think it does. A refret will help.
 

renderit

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Put a third way, just sell it to me and don't worry aboot it...
 

Ed A

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Well maybe I shouldve put it another way.... the guitar is playable for sure... and frets are in great shape... but they are lower than I prefer them to be... I would love to have the fret height I like... I have no plans on ever selling it, but famous last words, Ive said that a few dozen times in the past twenty years LOL!.... just wanted to make sure I wouldnt drop the value a lot... I should just refret it and it will go from 95% to 100% perfect for my liking!
 

brandtkronholm

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Dec 3, 2006
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The phrase "subtract a dollar" is appropriate here.
A good refret will not devalue a vintage instrument.
(Pics?)
 

Ed A

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I posted a thread with pix, but hasnt shown up yet... going through moderators, I guess... love this guitar!!!!!
 

somebodyelseuk

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Good man. Of course, don't entrust the work to just any 'Tom, Dick or Harry'.
I'd probably get in touch with your local equivalent of Norms for recommendations. It needs to be done by someone familiar with working on old instruments.
 

goldtop0

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I talked with Tom W about this years ago re vintage '59s etc and he said it has to be done and done properly there are no worries or change in value.
 

ScumbackSpeakers

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Dec 20, 2016
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Ed, I doubt anyone would devalue a guitar for refretting it. If it's done right, it should just be considered a service/maintenance thing.

You're not going to tear up the roads with 60 year old car tires, so we can't expect you to do it with frets that have worn down.
 

marshall1987

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Jan 30, 2005
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A skilled guitar repairman who has access to a PLEK machine would be a good place to start if you really want the guitar re-fretted. The guitar should retain it's full vintage value with a high quality re-fret and PLEK.
 

Ed A

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Jul 16, 2001
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Thanks for the replies!… I don’t think I’ve ever had any guitar that I didn’t somewhat modify but this one is so virgin I just felt a little uneasy about doing it LOL… But yes I will go ahead and one of my go to guys is Ian at Lark Street music in New Jersey… Meticulous detail and great with vintage instruments… Sometimes a very long wait though. I am planning on using Jescar .090 X .045 which I believe is close to vintage correct but most importantly the size I prefer… Thanks!
 

Aloha_Ark

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one of my go to guys is Ian at Lark Street music in New Jersey… Meticulous detail and great with vintage instruments.

Probably a good decision. Vintage guitars have their subtleties, and leaving it to a pro is the right way to go. I was watching a video of Dan Erlewine refretting Mike Bloomfield's Tele. Little did I know, but the barbs have to be sized correctly and tapped in from the side, once a fret press pushes them in vertically. A veteran luthier knows these critical details. Erick Coleman adds a useful piece of advice- doing it wrong can induce a bad case of bowing.
 

jwalker

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Dec 10, 2004
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Before you do anything, string the guitar with the next size up in string gauge. Heavier strings will improve playability of lower frets.

Unless the frets are very, very low I would re-crown them first. If you still feel they are too low, consider a partial refret first. Unless the guitar has severe wear or too many levelings, I find a good recrown can do the trick. A lot of times the frets feel too low because the are too flat and lack a good crown.

I have 6 guitars that I refretted and after being convinced to do a partial refret on my ‘57 J-45, I realize that two of the 6 refreted guitars should have had a partial refret with a cull recrown pf all frets.

There is a temptation to start with a clean slate and do an entire refret. But there is something to keeping the original frets if possible.

Above all else, if you do a refret, don’t sand or plane the fingerboard and make sure that is clear to the guy doing the refret.
 

Ed A

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Hey Jon, thanks for the advice but in this case it’s not a matter of the guitar having poor playability because of flattening or some bad frets… This guitar actually appears to have had a recent leveling crowning and polish… The frets are in excellent shape as far as that goes… Problem is they are only .030 in height and that’s just too low for my preference… I don’t like any lower than .040 and .045 is what I prefer… No matter the string gauge it’s more difficult to avoid slipping off with only .030 in height…

Before you do anything, string the guitar with the next size up in string gauge. Heavier strings will improve playability of lower frets.

Unless the frets are very, very low I would re-crown them first. If you still feel they are too low, consider a partial refret first. Unless the guitar has severe wear or too many levelings, I find a good recrown can do the trick. A lot of times the frets feel too low because the are too flat and lack a good crown.

I have 6 guitars that I refretted and after being convinced to do a partial refret on my ‘57 J-45, I realize that two of the 6 refreted guitars should have had a partial refret with a cull recrown pf all frets.

There is a temptation to start with a clean slate and do an entire refret. But there is something to keeping the original frets if possible.

Above all else, if you do a refret, don’t sand or plane the fingerboard and make sure that is clear to the guy doing the refret.
 

garywright

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Aug 17, 2002
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if you are like you say “95% happy” ..I’d leave it as is...that’s a whole load of happiness ...modern frets just seem to wear quicker ..the originals lasting 61 years and still in good shape are a true testament
 

jwalker

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Dec 10, 2004
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Hi Ed, I agree you need to have it the way you like it. But to put it in perspective I have a ‘59 LP Jr. that is as near to mint as you will find with only the slightest wear on the first fret and that measures .029”-.025” on the frets. I also have a ‘64 Wilshire in the same condition that measures .029” for the fret height. I would consider myself lucky if I had a ‘59 Special with .030” on frets that were leveled and well crowned. Personally I would not refret.

If slipping off is the issue the a new nut with could be the best cure.
 

El Gringo

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Apr 8, 2015
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Hi Ed, I agree you need to have it the way you like it. But to put it in perspective I have a ‘59 LP Jr. that is as near to mint as you will find with only the slightest wear on the first fret and that measures .029”-.025” on the frets. I also have a ‘64 Wilshire in the same condition that measures .029” for the fret height. I would consider myself lucky if I had a ‘59 Special with .030” on frets that were leveled and well crowned. Personally I would not refret.

If slipping off is the issue the a new nut with could be the best cure.

I wish you took care of my guitars . I would pay you handsomely !
 

Ed A

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Jul 16, 2001
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Made my decision, thanks for all the input! Having to play two plus hours with my Allmans tribute and really needing to dig in, I cant do all I need to do with .030 height frets.... I bought it to play!... Will have Ian from Lark Street Music in New Jersey do the refret... he has worked magic for me in the past including reattaching a completely severed headstock from my '53 goldtop with barely any sign to the naked eye of the repair....
 
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