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Is it Worth It Upgrading From Custombuckers to Boutique PAF's? (Video)

yeatzee

Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2016
Messages
66
Mostly just a lurker on here but I started down the rabbit hole and tried swapping the stock custombuckers in my M2M R7/8 which I thought already sounded great just to see if boutique PAF clones will make a noticeable difference. Went with the Righteous Sounds RAF set based on positive reviews I had seen stating they give a more clear tone similar to vintage examples and are more "tele on steroids." What do you think?


It's important to note that these comparisons are never totally fair for the second set of pickups because the tones were chosen and dialed in for the first set. If I wasn't shooting a video comparing the two and just had the RAF's I would have dialed back the bridge tone knob to like 7 and raised the mids on the amps a bit. That would obviously take down some of the extra top end you might hear in the video but also give me headroom to poke out more if needed by going back to 10, etc etc. The test really just shows an accurate unbiased view of how different they sound side by side.

And with that illustrated I offer the question, which pickup characteristics are something you'd rather have as your tonal starting point? Something more mid-forward and girthier (what I hear with the CB's), or more mid-neutral and clearer (what I hear in the RAFs). I'm curious what other people hear, and what their preferences are. It's way too early to make a judgement call myself I want to play them more in a mix and get more familiar with them. Pickup swaps are easy, take 10 minutes and I can reuse the same strings so no harm done either way. This is just me poking my curiosity and taking you guys along for the ride to see how differing the opinions can be (while hopefully offering some content that's informative for future people doing research like I was months ago). All fun!
 

rockabilly69

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 29, 2001
Messages
2,872
Mostly just a lurker on here but I started down the rabbit hole and tried swapping the stock custombuckers in my M2M R7/8 which I thought already sounded great just to see if boutique PAF clones will make a noticeable difference. Went with the Righteous Sounds RAF set based on positive reviews I had seen stating they give a more clear tone similar to vintage examples and are more "tele on steroids." What do you think?


It's important to note that these comparisons are never totally fair for the second set of pickups because the tones were chosen and dialed in for the first set. If I wasn't shooting a video comparing the two and just had the RAF's I would have dialed back the bridge tone knob to like 7 and raised the mids on the amps a bit. That would obviously take down some of the extra top end you might hear in the video but also give me headroom to poke out more if needed by going back to 10, etc etc. The test really just shows an accurate unbiased view of how different they sound side by side.

And with that illustrated I offer the question, which pickup characteristics are something you'd rather have as your tonal starting point? Something more mid-forward and girthier (what I hear with the CB's), or more mid-neutral and clearer (what I hear in the RAFs). I'm curious what other people hear, and what their preferences are. It's way too early to make a judgement call myself I want to play them more in a mix and get more familiar with them. Pickup swaps are easy, take 10 minutes and I can reuse the same strings so no harm done either way. This is just me poking my curiosity and taking you guys along for the ride to see how differing the opinions can be (while hopefully offering some content that's informative for future people doing research like I was months ago). All fun!

I think the Custombuckers sound better in the bridge and the RAF in neck. The RAF was just too thin in the bridge for my tastes, and I like brighter tones. I think there are other PAF clones that retain highs as well as the RAF, while not sounding so thin. Specifically I like the Precious and Grace set by Tyson which I also start with my tone control down at around 5 on the bridge. That said, very nice demo, and thanks for taking the time to do that so professionally!

listen to me solo in this song @ 2:45, the pickup is plenty bright, but it has additional mids that I like in the bridge position...

https://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=6605960

I don't hear that in the RAFs, but I think I could tweak your custombuckers to give me that, as alot of it depends on what type of amp you use. In the demo I used a TopHat Club Royale which has a very useful mid knob. To me it's easier to cut a mid, than add it. And the pickup is a Seymour Duncan Antiquity, that I put a stronger magnet into, and, unwound some turns off of the front coil to unbalance and open it up a little. My Tysons Precious and Grace which I have loaded into some Zemaitis guitars give me this sound. I also have a set of custombuckers in my R7 that sound similar to yours (but your neck pickup is a bit thicker) that do it for me. BTW, not all great bursts were the Tele On Steroids versions. Listen to the Beast, that things has some rockin' mids! More throaty and woody. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRyLqlR1SYg now listen to the Precious and Grace Set, the neck still has balls while retaining clarity and the bridge bites without losing the mids.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxl19f3tHkg

Of course we are talking about splitting hairs here, and I can make either of your pickups set work for me if I just spent a little time with each. It's just a fun pursuit of the mythical burst tone:) Once again, thanks for posting!
 

Brek

Member
Joined
May 23, 2020
Messages
62
Its a No from me, but then I have just bought some Wizz Paf beanos' for my 60th Anni 1960, as I want a specific sound, not better.
 

Sol

Active member
Joined
Oct 26, 2001
Messages
775
What I find really impressive is that the Gibson pups while different in voicing are equal in tone quality to a set from a company that does nothing else. AFAIK.
Either of the two sets could be dialed in to be all but indistinguishable from one another by adding or subtracting from the amp's eq section.

I loved both sets and could happily work with either.

Gibson are doing something right with these pickups, and I continue to use Gibson 'buckers from 1965 pat# to current models, I rate them.

The strength of competition between these smaller custom and boutique winders continues to raise the bar of quality, while hopefully keeping prices realistic as a result.

The original question "Is it worth upgrading..?". These two sets of humbuckers are variations on the same theme, which I suppose is just a long winded way of saying in this case, no..
 

yeatzee

Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2016
Messages
66
A little late on responding back, sorry about that! For those interested, I've since picked up a pair of DoyleCoils, WIZZ PAF, and ReWind T-top replicas to add to the comparison. Stay tuned for that, I'm hoping to shoot it all tomorrow.


I think the Custombuckers sound better in the bridge and the RAF in neck. The RAF was just too thin in the bridge for my tastes, and I like brighter tones. I think there are other PAF clones that retain highs as well as the RAF, while not sounding so thin. Specifically I like the Precious and Grace set by Tyson which I also start with my tone control down at around 5 on the bridge. That said, very nice demo, and thanks for taking the time to do that so professionally!

listen to me solo in this song @ 2:45, the pickup is plenty bright, but it has additional mids that I like in the bridge position...

https://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=6605960

I don't hear that in the RAFs, but I think I could tweak your custombuckers to give me that, as alot of it depends on what type of amp you use. In the demo I used a TopHat Club Royale which has a very useful mid knob. To me it's easier to cut a mid, than add it. And the pickup is a Seymour Duncan Antiquity, that I put a stronger magnet into, and, unwound some turns off of the front coil to unbalance and open it up a little. My Tysons Precious and Grace which I have loaded into some Zemaitis guitars give me this sound. I also have a set of custombuckers in my R7 that sound similar to yours (but your neck pickup is a bit thicker) that do it for me. BTW, not all great bursts were the Tele On Steroids versions. Listen to the Beast, that things has some rockin' mids! More throaty and woody. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRyLqlR1SYg now listen to the Precious and Grace Set, the neck still has balls while retaining clarity and the bridge bites without losing the mids.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxl19f3tHkg

Of course we are talking about splitting hairs here, and I can make either of your pickups set work for me if I just spent a little time with each. It's just a fun pursuit of the mythical burst tone:) Once again, thanks for posting!

Yes I preferred the Gibson CB bridge, RAF middle and RAF neck with the tones selected. It's worth mentioning again that the tones were setup with the CB's in the guitar, so they will naturally favor that set more. It's not about which sounds better per se because you could easily pull back the tone control on the bridge with the RAF's, add some mids to the amp, increase the gain on the amp, etc to get closer to the CB's. It's more about which base starting point you'd rather have I guess. Since doing the video I've played with the LP a lot and further tweaked the RAF's height / pole pieces and I've been really impressed, particularly in a mix. No classic rock gigs during COVID but still playing with my church on occassion, here's a couple examples with the RAF's:

This one I'm on the neck pickup when the video starts, nice clarity there. Would not have used the neck for that part on the CB's. Next time the chorus comes around I go to the bridge, not harsh but definitely clear. Around 51:00 I do a little mellow lead, and at the end of the song starting at 52:44 I do an outro lead again on the bridge. No shred stuff (gotta fit the song ) but still I think it's a pretty good tone!

https://youtu.be/qgVOOY5LQK8?t=2964


Then I also did a virtual jam with some other people for church. This one was cool because I was able to stick on the neck for 90% of the song, something I wouldn't have ever done with the CB's. It's pretty mellow in the beginning but starts to open up around 1:40. More so 3:20 into the bridge where I do some little leads starting at 4:48. Then starts to get fun at 5:15. My favorite part though are those big Trem'd chords at 6:40 with I flip to the bridge. Could probably use a touch more push there but overall pretty happy.



So just for those that are curious how the RAF's sound in a more musical context.



What I find really impressive is that the Gibson pups while different in voicing are equal in tone quality to a set from a company that does nothing else. AFAIK.
Either of the two sets could be dialed in to be all but indistinguishable from one another by adding or subtracting from the amp's eq section.

I loved both sets and could happily work with either.

Gibson are doing something right with these pickups, and I continue to use Gibson 'buckers from 1965 pat# to current models, I rate them.

The strength of competition between these smaller custom and boutique winders continues to raise the bar of quality, while hopefully keeping prices realistic as a result.

The original question "Is it worth upgrading..?". These two sets of humbuckers are variations on the same theme, which I suppose is just a long winded way of saying in this case, no..
Yeah the CB's have always seemed to have a great reputation, and I certainly think it's deserved. I loved them prior to swapping pickups, I only made the change out of curiosity to see for myself the differences a pickup makes.
 

Big Al

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
14,537
I think the Custombuckers sound better in the bridge and the RAF in neck. The RAF was just too thin in the bridge for my tastes, and I like brighter tones. I think there are other PAF clones that retain highs as well as the RAF, while not sounding so thin. Specifically I like the Precious and Grace set by Tyson which I also start with my tone control down at around 5 on the bridge. That said, very nice demo, and thanks for taking the time to do that so professionally!

listen to me solo in this song @ 2:45, the pickup is plenty bright, but it has additional mids that I like in the bridge position...

https://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=6605960

I don't hear that in the RAFs, but I think I could tweak your custombuckers to give me that, as alot of it depends on what type of amp you use. In the demo I used a TopHat Club Royale which has a very useful mid knob. To me it's easier to cut a mid, than add it. And the pickup is a Seymour Duncan Antiquity, that I put a stronger magnet into, and, unwound some turns off of the front coil to unbalance and open it up a little. My Tysons Precious and Grace which I have loaded into some Zemaitis guitars give me this sound. I also have a set of custombuckers in my R7 that sound similar to yours (but your neck pickup is a bit thicker) that do it for me. BTW, not all great bursts were the Tele On Steroids versions. Listen to the Beast, that things has some rockin' mids! More throaty and woody. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRyLqlR1SYg now listen to the Precious and Grace Set, the neck still has balls while retaining clarity and the bridge bites without losing the mids.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxl19f3tHkg

Of course we are talking about splitting hairs here, and I can make either of your pickups set work for me if I just spent a little time with each. It's just a fun pursuit of the mythical burst tone:) Once again, thanks for posting!

Daniel, as with most of your music, I especially liked this song. I listened multiple times and floated away on it. I, like you, find great tone in dialing down. Almost always dial some highs from the bridge, which allows me to dial up for bright staccato tone, chime and twang as well as dial deep for woman tone. I prefer bright humbuckers, but full sounding, as you point out.

I must say, I like all the Gibson humbuckers based, more or less on the originals, from Ttop onwards. I do like the current Custombucker varient, very much.
 

Sol

Active member
Joined
Oct 26, 2001
Messages
775
Yeatzee,
You play guitar for a glory not your own, but that Christ crucified might be made known.. Deus Vult..
 

Sol

Active member
Joined
Oct 26, 2001
Messages
775
Yeatzee, worship music is a particularly challenging discipline. I found your approach to be both sensitive and complimentary. Your Les Paul sits perfectly in the mix, and proves if proof were needed that their is nowhere a Fender can go that the Les Paul cannot follow, exceeding the emotive range of all other guitars imo.
 

yeatzee

Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2016
Messages
66
Yeatzee, worship music is a particularly challenging discipline. I found your approach to be both sensitive and complimentary. Your Les Paul sits perfectly in the mix, and proves if proof were needed that their is nowhere a Fender can go that the Les Paul cannot follow, exceeding the emotive range of all other guitars imo.

That's kind of you to say, thank you!
 
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