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2061X vs 1974X

goldtop0

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What is the tonal difference between these two Marshall amps.
I've had a '74X for a few years now and love that tone.
 

corpse

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I have a 2061 (2005 RI) and the matching cab- I am sure this makes a difference. My friend has the other. The 74 is a more aggressive thinner tone- certainly nastier. The 61 is richer but less aggressive. Mike Slubowski calls is a 20 watt 1959. They are similar animals.
His is located in a finely constructed studio- mine in my refinished, carpeted basement. I cannot say there would be a need for both.
Ok- that said I own three Brown Fenders from 60-61.
 

Hot_Snake

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Had both (2061X with matching cab).
2061X was way louder. I found it brighter and more aggressive than the 1974X. Classic 70’s rock / hard rock sound. The 2x12 cab is a great piece of gear.
1974X was smoother, great clean sound and beautiful tremolo.
Wish i still had the 1974X.
At this time i played a 2004 R8 and 63 Tele reissue ...
 

corpse

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THAT is very interesting.
You know, I have never had the 2061 biased. Maybe I should.
 

PaulD

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Any difference in volume would likely be due to different speaker efficiency and configuration i.e. 1 x 12 combo vs 2 x 12 cab, not the amp itself. The 2 watt difference in power output is irrelevant and if the two amps were plugged into the same speaker setup they would produce pretty much the same sound pressure level.

The two amps are actually very similar circuits (single gain stage > long tailed pair phase inverter > 2 x EL84 push-pull output stage). The significant difference is in the power supply section, the 1947X uses a valve rectifier whereas the 2061X is a solid state rectifier and runs at a higher voltage. Generally speaking solid state rectifiers will give a tighter more focussed feel to the amp with less sag. The different speaker configurations will also have a significant effect on the tone, a 1 x 12 open backed combo will sound very different to a 2 x 12 closed back cabinet.

Caveat: All of this is a technical viewpoint and not based on any first hand experience of using them!
 

goldtop0

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Any difference in volume would likely be due to different speaker efficiency and configuration i.e. 1 x 12 combo vs 2 x 12 cab, not the amp itself. The 2 watt difference in power output is irrelevant and if the two amps were plugged into the same speaker setup they would produce pretty much the same sound pressure level.

The two amps are actually very similar circuits (single gain stage > long tailed pair phase inverter > 2 x EL84 push-pull output stage). The significant difference is in the power supply section, the 1947X uses a valve rectifier whereas the 2061X is a solid state rectifier and runs at a higher voltage. Generally speaking solid state rectifiers will give a tighter more focussed feel to the amp with less sag. The different speaker configurations will also have a significant effect on the tone, a 1 x 12 open backed combo will sound very different to a 2 x 12 closed back cabinet.

Caveat: All of this is a technical viewpoint and not based on any first hand experience of using them!


Thanks Paul and others for your replies.
We've had a handful of the 2061s coming up for sale over here lately(at reasonable asking prices) and it's a very long time since I played one, and that was only for a few minutes.
My somewhat faded recollection is that it was a darker sounding amp than the '74X(on the tremolo channel), so I'll need to revisit one some day.
 

deytookerjaabs

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I've got one of each right now.

A "Bacino" clone of the 1974x and the Marshall 2061x head.

I'd say, all things being equal, the 1974x version can have a tendency to be a bit thinner & a hair more brash when pushed. But, depending on how you tweak it that's not a big deal. However, the far side input of the 2061x is what I envision a smaller version of a great sounding super lead would be. It has a good deal of headroom given it's size/output with chime/glassines that's not too thin, breaks up warmer & fatter and doesn't get stupid hairy over the top breakup. These differences are even more apparent when playing through the same speakers however the scumnicos in the bacino warm it up much more so than the speakers it originally had (celestions). Yet with just one greenback reissue the 2061x just sounds "right" if you're goal is big Marshall in a dive joint.

If I had a choice it'd be the 2061x for the "daily driver" kind of sound I like out of old Marshall circuits in a more compact version. However, the 1974x is not too distant sound wise.
 

Wilko

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The previous are similar to my take on these amps. I only have the clone of 1974 with a greenback now.

While technical explanation that PaulD writes is "correct" as far as the wattage/sound pressure part, the practical application of the different power sections makes them feel pretty different and allows the power to come through more for the 20 watt whereas the 18 watt "sags" literally the power just gets compressed and the volume/attack envelope is changed. Some people call that "mushy".

In this thread each has been called more aggressive. Depends on how you hear 'em. I hear the 20 watt as more buzzy/squarewave and the 18 watt as more smooth and mellow (compressed)
 
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PaulD

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Yes it's all about the difference between valve and solid state rectifiers. When you hit the amp with a big signal it tries to draw a lot of current, with a valve rectifier you get a voltage drop due to the valves internal resistance and the reduced voltage tends to flatten out the peaks in the signal in the same way that a compressor does. Solid state rectifiers don't exhibit this voltage drop so there is no compression of the signal.
 

Wilko

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Yes it's all about the difference between valve and solid state rectifiers. When you hit the amp with a big signal it tries to draw a lot of current, with a valve rectifier you get a voltage drop due to the valves internal resistance and the reduced voltage tends to flatten out the peaks in the signal in the same way that a compressor does. Solid state rectifiers don't exhibit this voltage drop so there is no compression of the signal.

Yeah, that's the technical part. PaulD obviously an amp guru.

I just wanted to add on about that power supply difference because, like you said, the power difference isn't really noticeable, the "perceived volume" is likely more noticeable. making the solid state sound more "up front", maybe. Can cut through a mix better in some cases. Some call it more "headroom" or other descriptions.

Yeah, it's tough to write about sound!
:##
 

goldtop0

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Okay, so the left hand channel is like the Normal channel with Vol/tone on the '74X(being a darker tone) and the right hand channel inputs are brighter as with the Tremolo channel.
 

latestarter

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Dude, we all missed that one on TradeMe!!

But for good reason...great amps, but hella loud 20 watts. These RI's can fizz as they grind into overdrive...maybe a tube change might help. If I had to choose it would be the 1974X - to me, it's *the* classic Marshall small box rock machine.
 

corpse

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At the ripe old age of 55 portability wins many arguments. I sold my 1972/73 Marshall cab w/original speakers because it was a piece of furniture; same for the '63 Bassman- which I loved.
There are so many variables- speaker efficiency being a huge one. But wattage has little to do with voice- on the surface they "should" be similar in my mind. They are not.
 

PaulD

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on the surface they "should" be similar in my mind. They are not.

Sometimes small changes to a circuit can make significant differences to the overall character of an amp, in the case of these two amps there are several fairly minor differences in the pre-amp sections and one fairly major difference in the power supply sections - certainly enough to make them different animals.

Another classic example of this would be the Fender Bassman and JTM45. Essentially the same circuit but a few component value changes, different transformers and different speaker set-ups make them very different amplifiers.
 

deytookerjaabs

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Yeah, I've owned and played the same amps, circuit wise, that had enough difference between them to make one noticeably more preferable, be it tubes/voltage/xformers or whatever. And, in this case my 2061x is really close as is to my fav '73 superlead I used to have.
 

goldtop0

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Dude, we all missed that one on TradeMe!!

But for good reason...great amps, but hella loud 20 watts. These RI's can fizz as they grind into overdrive...maybe a tube change might help. If I had to choose it would be the 1974X - to me, it's *the* classic Marshall small box rock machine.


Yep I looked at it but that's about it. Got some good amps and didn't need any extras at this stage.
Guys I know have modded theirs.
 

TM1

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THAT is very interesting.
You know, I have never had the 2061 biased. Maybe I should.

It is a "Cathode Biased" amp. The output section is self-biasing. No need to take it to a tech unless is quits working. Any "Cathode Biased" amp will automatically adjust to whatever output tubes you put into it. If it was "Fixed bias" then you'd have to have the output section biased every time you replace the EL84's.
 

corpse

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I am pretty anal TMI- I knew there was some reason I hadn't had it done. I knew that and forgot it.
 
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