Want to buy a vintage 1950s-60s archtop electric... Gibson vs. Epiphone?

jonnyglock9 · Apr 10, 2020

Hi All!

Long time lurker, first post

I am in the market for a used vintage archtop electric guitar. I was mostly set on getting an Epiphone Century, early-mid 60s with the wider nut.

Then I started looking at Gibson ES-120/125T as well. Can anyone tell me why the Epiphone would cost more than the Gibson? Same year, same condition. This is what I have been seeing for the most part.

It seems a bit odd to me, as Gibsons tend to cost more than Epis at pretty much every other year, model, price point, etc.

Also if anyone has any good tips for me for making my first purchase of these types of vintage guitars, it would be much appreciated! Thanks so much.

Rich R · Apr 10, 2020

Contact Charlie at OK Guitars in CT. He knows a shitload about all that stuff

miczap · Apr 11, 2020

A century will always beat out a 120 due to the fact that it has a ‘proper’ p90 and not the lesser-loved single coil you’d find in the 120.

i would probably say the century and 125 are equally valued- but as anything, YMMV

JimR56 · Apr 11, 2020

The only thinline non-cut archtops I ever owned were early 60's Epi Century models. I bought two of them (both cherry red, but with different headstocks and pickguards) at a local flea market in the 1980's, for I think $60 each. I wasn't buying them to keep. In the short time before I flipped them, I noticed that they didn't play very well. I later learned that a lot of those guitars (including their Gibson counterparts) had neck joint issues. That's what I would be concerned most about, if I were you. I used to see a good percentage of them used for slide playing, where (high) action and intonation are less of a problem (relatively speaking, that is).

jonnyglock9 · Apr 12, 2020

Thank you, all. Lots of good and useful info! :2zone

JimR56 · Apr 13, 2020

Forgot to address one of your questions. It does indeed seem odd that the Epiphones would be priced higher than the Gibsons. Unless the Epiphones are in better condition, maybe it's just by chance that those sellers went higher with their prices. If you want to post any links, that might help.

Any particular reason that you're looking for a thinline non-cutaway archtop? Not that there's anything wrong with that, of course. Just curious what your inspiration might be. Cheers.

El Gringo · Apr 13, 2020

2 places I trust for vintage instruments are Lark Street Music with Buzzy who is fine gent and ditto for Gruhn Guitars . www.larkstreetmusic.com and www.gruhn.com

rockabilly69 · Apr 15, 2020

miczap said:
A century will always beat out a 120 due to the fact that it has a ‘proper’ p90 and not the lesser-loved single coil you’d find in the 120.

i would probably say the century and 125 are equally valued- but as anything, YMMV

I love these style guitars and I've owned a '63 Gibson ES120, '65 Gibson ES125, '62 Epi Century, and a '65 Epi Granada, my two favorites were the '65 ES125 and the '63 ES120 (I should have kept the ES120 because the little single coil in that one sounded GREAT, and I still own the '65 ES125 (the only one I kept). Both of the Epi's came up and short and neither played as well as the Gibsons.

Epi Century...

Epi Granada (with custom Curtis Novak pickup)...

Gibson ES120

Gibson ES125

deytookerjaabs · Apr 15, 2020

JimR56 said:
The only thinline non-cut archtops I ever owned were early 60's Epi Century models. I bought two of them (both cherry red, but with different headstocks and pickguards) at a local flea market in the 1980's, for I think $60 each. I wasn't buying them to keep. In the short time before I flipped them, I noticed that they didn't play very well. I later learned that a lot of those guitars (including their Gibson counterparts) had neck joint issues. That's what I would be concerned most about, if I were you. I used to see a good percentage of them used for slide playing, where (high) action and intonation are less of a problem (relatively speaking, that is).

Ditto on the neck issues.

My last ES-125 was a '58. I sold it for cheap on craigslist disclosing a neck issue, the pocket was a hair loose thus it absolutely needed a reset. You could only tell if you put heavy gauge strings on or just pulled at it a bit.

Shortly after I sold it the guitar was for sale at Carter's for $2,000 with no disclosure of the neck issue and the same super-lite strings on it. :laugh2:

If I was in the market for a box right now I'd skip a 125 and get a full size archtop.

rockabilly69 · Apr 16, 2020

deytookerjaabs said:
Ditto on the neck issues.

My last ES-125 was a '58. I sold it for cheap on craigslist disclosing a neck issue, the pocket was a hair loose thus it absolutely needed a reset. You could only tell if you put heavy gauge strings on or just pulled at it a bit.

Shortly after I sold it the guitar was for sale at Carter's for $2,000 with no disclosure of the neck issue and the same super-lite strings on it. :laugh2:

If I was in the market for a box right now I'd skip a 125 and get a full size archtop.

Neither my ES125 or ES120 had neck issues and the ES125 still plays perfectly today, but the Granada and Century never felt right to me!

jonnyglock9 · Apr 17, 2020

Apologies for the long overdue response. I appreciate all of your valuable insights and great info!

I suppose my main motivation for seeking out these makes/models of guitars is to grab my own little slice of American vintage guitar history, at a price I can afford. Admittedly, when I write it out like that, it seems like a silly justification.

Overall, I like having a handful of different guitars with different feels, sounds, tonalities, etc. So that in itself is a valid reason to include one of these in my collection. But I am still weighing my options...

JimR56 · Apr 17, 2020

jonnyglock9 said:
I suppose my main motivation for seeking out these makes/models of guitars is to grab my own little slice of American vintage guitar history, at a price I can afford. Admittedly, when I write it out like that, it seems like a silly justification.

Not silly at all. I totally get it.

Overall, I like having a handful of different guitars with different feels, sounds, tonalities, etc. So that in itself is a valid reason to include one of these in my collection. But I am still weighing my options...

Makes perfect sense also, in fact that's how I (and I'm sure a lot of others) built my collection.

Hope you find one that plays well and meets your expectations. :salude

S a m · Apr 17, 2020

deytookerjaabs said:
... on the neck issues ... If I was in the market for a box right now I'd skip a 125 and get a full size archtop.

There's a big distinction between the full-depth ES-125 and the ES-120/ES-125T. The big guy is as sturdy as a Gibson archtop ever was. The 120/125T neck joint is notoriously sketchy.

jonnyglock9 said:
I suppose my main motivation for seeking out these makes/models of guitars is to grab my own little slice of American vintage guitar history, at a price I can afford. Admittedly, when I write it out like that, it seems like a silly justification.

Overall, I like having a handful of different guitars with different feels, sounds, tonalities, etc. So that in itself is a valid reason to include one of these in my collection. But I am still weighing my options...

As Jaabs notes, you'll find a welcoming crowd here with that approach.

But if that's where you're at and if archtops are not familiar territory for you, consider waiting until after The Pandemic and shopping in-hand. As they say, "You don't know what you don't know."

Chercher le ton!

oceantoad · Apr 19, 2020

jonnyglock9 said:
Thank you, all. Lots of good and useful info! :2zone

Don't forget about Guild! '61 Starfire III w Dearmonds (Cherry) and (Blonde) 1960 T100BDP ...great tone and even greater price point on these! Shameless plug .

Win a shootout with ES125 any day !

deytookerjaabs · Apr 19, 2020

S a m said:
There's a big distinction between the full-depth ES-125 and the ES-120/ES-125T. The big guy is as sturdy as a Gibson archtop ever was. The 120/125T neck joint is notoriously sketchy.

As Jaabs notes, you'll find a welcoming crowd here with that approach.

But if that's where you're at and if archtops are not familiar territory for you, consider waiting until after The Pandemic and shopping in-hand. As they say, "You don't know what you don't know."

Chercher le ton!

My bad, my ES-125's have all been the "t" models, not the full depth boxes.

But, as to my point on archtops I just think you can score some real nice stuff in the vintage world out there if you wait.

Want to buy a vintage 1950s-60s archtop electric... Gibson vs. Epiphone?

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