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88 LP Fret Buzz/Rattle

mbbreen

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Feb 23, 2020
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Ok I know I have seen this particular issue listed several times and have tried all of the fixes that I have found listed, of course maybe I missed something.
I picked up an 88 LP Standard a couple of months ago. The setup and strings were horrible so I cleaned her up took her to my friend who actually is the local guitar tech and asked him to go through he, check her out and do a full setup. He gave her a clean bill of health except for a fret buzz on the “D” starting around the 3rd fret. The frets did look pretty good but due to the age of the guitar and the fact a few frets could use some work I went ahead and had the frets leveled and crowned. That helped but unfortunately did not stop the buzzing.
I did some checking on the forums and came up with several things’ others had done in the past that fixed the same type of issue so I have checked or tried the following.
1. Verified the neck has no issue
2. String are new have tried several sets, brands and 2 sizes (10 and 11) all the results the same.
3. Frets have been crowned and leveled
4. Bridge, Tail piece and Tuners have been checked. All were in useable condition (I did have 2 worn tuners) but as a last resort all have been replaced.
5. Full Setup has been done (twice).
At this point I am at a loss as to what else to try.
Any ideas/suggested fixes would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Mike
 

El Gringo

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Off the top of my head I would say a truss rod adjustment to add some relief and also adjust the ABR-1 Bridge or the Nashville Bridge . As you say prior to the fret work I would have tried the truss rod and the bridge adjustment first .
 

mbbreen

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Feb 23, 2020
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Off the top of my head I would say a truss rod adjustment to add some relief and also adjust the ABR-1 Bridge or the Nashville Bridge . As you say prior to the fret work I would have tried the truss rod and the bridge adjustment first .

Gringo,
Thanks for the info.
Actually I got this LP about 2 monhs ago and I would say it had not been properly stored for quite some time fret wires, stings and most metal was covered in a green "corrosion". Luckily the neck appears to be fine no twists or bends but we had to do a serious Truss Rod adjustment at that time. I know its been tweaked a couple of times as we did some other work. Hopefully it will settle down.

BTW here is a pic of her (if the link works)

lp_pic2_zpsvyschdus.jpg
library
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lp_pic2_zpsvyschdus.jpg.html

lp_pic2_zpsvyschdus.jpg.html
 
Last edited:

El Gringo

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Apr 8, 2015
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Gringo,
Thanks for the info.
Actually I got this LP about 2 monhs ago and I would say it had not been properly stored for quite some time fret wires, stings and most metal was covered in a green "corrosion". Luckily the neck appears to be fine no twists or bends but we had to do a serious Truss Rod adjustment at that time. I know its been tweaked a couple of times as we did some other work. Hopefully it will settle down.

BTW here is a pic of her (if the link works)

lp_pic2_zpsvyschdus.jpg
[/URL]


lp_pic2_zpsvyschdus.jpg.html

lp_pic2_zpsvyschdus.jpg.html

I can't see the photos, (filters at work) . The way a guitar is stored is important . I keep all of mine on stands with 2 humidifiers running during heating season and this helps .
 

rick c

Active member
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May 28, 2016
Messages
282
If by "Verified the neck has no issue" the neck is flat/close to flat with just a tiny bow and the "Frets have been crowned and leveled" and only the D string is buzzing then this suggests that the frets are not leveled (at least in the D position) or the neck is too flat. Use a credit card as a rocker and check the level of the frets in the D string position only; I suspect you have a high or low spot only in the D string position.

I don't understand how a "Full Setup has been done (twice)" has not resolved this issue. I very strongly recommend learning how to do this stuff yourself (loads and loads of YouTube videos on this subject). How much relief is in the neck and how low is the action on top and bottom E strings?

 

mbbreen

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Feb 23, 2020
Messages
9
Rick,
I have been making some adjustments so the readings are not what they were after the setups.
I do not at present have a feeler gauge so these are done with a small ruler so I know they could be more accurate.
Currently the action is setting at:
High E = 2 mm
Low E = 3 mm

The relief is about 2 business cards which I believe is .07 cm

With these settings the "rattle/buzz" is pretty much gone.

I plan to redo a setup myself once I get a feller gauge

Mike
 

mbbreen

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Feb 23, 2020
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Thank you all for the advice and feedback.I had to adjust the truss 2 times and redo the setup but the buzzing is pretty much gone.The hardest part was the waiting between the truss adjustments.
Thanks Again
Mike
 

El Gringo

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Apr 8, 2015
Messages
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Thank you all for the advice and feedback.I had to adjust the truss 2 times and redo the setup but the buzzing is pretty much gone.The hardest part was the waiting between the truss adjustments.
Thanks Again
Mike

Awesome to hear some good news in this situation we are in . This is great to get a nice guitar working and singing like she should . Play her in good health and rock out and have fun !!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

TwoInch

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Jun 24, 2020
Messages
5
If It's only the d string, and raising the bridge results in action that's too high... I would suspect possibly a collapsed bridge.

I've run into similar situations. D and or G buzzing in random areas. Bridge would need raised to much to be comfortable. Collapsed bridge
 

mbbreen

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Feb 23, 2020
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Thanks Two,
Unfortunately I have already replaced the bridge, stop piece etc. Still have the buzz. Currently I am just playing her as is.

Mike
 

TwoInch

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Jun 24, 2020
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Thanks Two,
Unfortunately I have already replaced the bridge, stop piece etc. Still have the buzz. Currently I am just playing her as is.

Mike

I don't think you should just accept it as is. There are only a very finite couple reasons that can cause your issue.

All but one are very easily fixed, if diagnosed properly.

If you have a cell phone with a camera, and can take a couple pictures for us, i think we can fix this issue.

My suggestion is to make sure the flash is turned off, and use natural light from a window, or lay the guitar on a towel on your car hood, so you have great natural lighting.

Take a shot with the camera resting on the two E string tuning pegs, pointing down the fretboard, over the nut.

Take a shot with the camera shooting from behind and just barely over the bridge, down the fretboard. So they are both in the picture.

Take a shot straight down on the bridge from above.

And a shot of the bridge directly from the side, from about the treble pickups location.

Just those 4 shots. I can give you example pictures if unclear.

Id like to help get it playing perfectly.
 

mbbreen

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Joined
Feb 23, 2020
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Thanks Two,
I would really like to fix it.
May be a few days before I can get the pics dues to work schedule but will get them as soon as I can.

Mike
 

CCW

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Jun 29, 2020
Messages
3
Thanks Two,
I would really like to fix it.
May be a few days before I can get the pics dues to work schedule but will get them as soon as I can.

Mike

In my quest for low action as possible I have been able to make every string buzz one thru six. If it is only the D string, then loosen the D string and slip a very small piece of copy paper between the D string and the D string nut slot. Retune and go again. Keep adding layers of the paper just in the D slot of the nut and under where the D string crosses the nut until the buzzing of the D string subsides.

Did you say the fret wires had green stuff growing when you pulled it out of storage? This could be a harbinger of a high fret or a loose fret.
 

rick c

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Joined
May 28, 2016
Messages
282
Mike: Only a few responses ago you indicated that the buzzing had "pretty much gone". You also made an odd comment about waiting for the neck relief response; I state odd because my guitar necks respond immediately to truss rod adjustments. I live in south west BC Canada, relatively mild and flip/flop humidities. I like setting my guitars with a low action and only a little neck relief which means at least two, sometimes more truss rod adjustments a year to account for the changes in weather. They all go at around the same time so it's no biggie, I just have a guitar day and crack open a beer or two. Did you ever try using a credit card as a rocker around the D string frets to look for high/low spots?

I'm interested to see the pictures suggested by TwoInch
 

mbbreen

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Feb 23, 2020
Messages
9
Mike: Only a few responses ago you indicated that the buzzing had "pretty much gone". You also made an odd comment about waiting for the neck relief response; I state odd because my guitar necks respond immediately to truss rod adjustments. I live in south west BC Canada, relatively mild and flip/flop humidities. I like setting my guitars with a low action and only a little neck relief which means at least two, sometimes more truss rod adjustments a year to account for the changes in weather. They all go at around the same time so it's no biggie, I just have a guitar day and crack open a beer or two. Did you ever try using a credit card as a rocker around the D string frets to look for high/low spots?

I'm interested to see the pictures suggested by TwoInch

Thanks everyone.

Yes the buzz did get much better after all of the tweaking and adjusting but was still there I kind of got used to it but can still hear it. I have checked the frets with a rocker and they all seem good nothing high but I am not a expert to me they looked good.
Let me try and explain my comment about the neck and the truss rod adjustment. The guitar from what I have found out pretty much set in the case with full string tension on it for several years in a some place that was not well maintained and the when I got it and did the cleanup and first setup and made the first neck adjustment it was a pretty big adjustment after a couple of days I had to adjust it again ended up tweaking the neck about 4 times because it shifted a little every couple of days but after I had her for a couple of weeks she stops shifting I am assuming that was due to the environmental changes and changing tension on the neck after so long a time again no expert but the neck has not needed any adjustments for sometime now.
 

rick c

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May 28, 2016
Messages
282
Hi Mike: For what it is worth, my 87 LPC will buzz if I play harder. My relief is around 0.008" at the 7th fret with a capo on the first and pushing down on the 16th, my action is 3/64" high E, 5/16" low E and I'm using 008-038 EB strings. When playing "normally" all is good but when playing harder there is a little buzzing up above the 12th fret; this is normal. The flatter the neck, the shallower the string angle from the fingered fret to the next and slinky strings move more. I don't even notice when playing through an amp; the slight buzzes are more obvious when playing unplugged.

Good luck Mike.
 

mbbreen

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Feb 23, 2020
Messages
9
OK Two,
Hopefully these pics will be what you were looking for if not let me know and I'll try again.

te2DjXF.jpg



pjZkGtZ.jpg


vrCRXoA.jpg



n3sPpTk.jpg
 

CCW

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Joined
Jun 29, 2020
Messages
3
You did a great job cleaning her up. Looks almost new. That nut looks a little strange. Can't tell for sure because it went out of focus between the nut and camera lens. My advice is worth what it costs: take it to a luthier and ask for a new nut using bone, TUSQ or one of the new Gibson nuts, and set it so there is precisely 0.3mm clearance over the first fret for all strings with the nut set properly. Depending on how much bending you plan on doing, select 10's or 9's strings. If you do not have feeler gages then use short pieces of string for feeler gage to back check the luthier. The B string on Ernie Ball SuperSlinky "9"'s is 0.011". That is about perfect clearance between first fret and bottom of string for all strings running free over the first fret for low action setup. After that checks out, you or the luthier can finish the setup. For low action, I would recommend 0.2mm on neck clearance measured with first fret capo'ed, strings held down at 12th fret, clearance measured at 7th fret. With strings free, 1.5mm over the last fret and Low E, 1.2mm over the last fret and High E. This is close to the published Gibson setup data.

Steinway recommends 60% humidity for stability of their pianos. I think that is good for LPs also. If set up changes are frequently necessary, might want to get a 40 to 70%RH controlled storage somewhere.

--CCW
 

El Gringo

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Gibson uses 6/6 nylon nuts , which are self lubricating . When installed right and properly cut are awesome .
 

Big Al

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If by "Verified the neck has no issue" the neck is flat/close to flat with just a tiny bow and the "Frets have been crowned and leveled" and only the D string is buzzing then this suggests that the frets are not leveled (at least in the D position) or the neck is too flat. Use a credit card as a rocker and check the level of the frets in the D string position only; I suspect you have a high or low spot only in the D string position.

I don't understand how a "Full Setup has been done (twice)" has not resolved this issue. I very strongly recommend learning how to do this stuff yourself (loads and loads of YouTube videos on this subject). How much relief is in the neck and how low is the action on top and bottom E strings?


The only post that makes sense in this thread. REAL QUALIFIED TECHS DO PRO SETUPS. If you had a proper crown and level done on the frets, a complete setup, AND STILL HAVE FRET RATTLE, you did not and are due a refund.

First, and this is most important, DOES THE RATTLE PRESENT ITSELF THROUGH AN AMP, OR DIRECT INJECTED IF RECORDING, or is it an unplugged thing?? If you only hear it acousticly and not when amplified, leave it be, you do not have a problem. If heard through a speaker, it's a problem.

Disregard the advise about filling the nut slot. That has no bearing on your problem with fretted notes buzzing or rattling. DON'T CHASE THIS ISSUE TRYING EVERYTHING YOU CAN UNLESS YOU KNOW WHAT YOUR DOING.

A collapsed bridge or too deep saddle slot come to mind, but a qualified, experienced tech would have found that. The best thing every guitarist can do, is learn to perform a proper setup. I just cannot understand how after paying for a fret level and pro setup you paid for, or took the guitar home? Before touching anything you should of had the shop address this FIRST.
 
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