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  1. #1

    Opinion on '58 Les Paul Special please

    Hi,

    I'm looking for opinions on this Special.
    I found:
    - switch ring is '58
    - switch is original
    - wear is honest, color seems OK
    - braided wire on the pickup is 2 strand weave. The other wires are strange with a red and blue core. Strange anyone would use other wire.
    - volume pot of the bridge pickup is changed?
    - 1 bumblebee gone
    - bridge pickup cavity slightly altered
    - are those period correct tuners?

















  2. #2

    Re: Opinion on '58 Les Paul Special please










  3. #3
    Les Paul Forum Member AA00475Bassman's Avatar
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    Re: Opinion on '58 Les Paul Special please

    [IMG][/IMG]Whats not to Like ?
    Ive never confused owning a bunch of high end gear with being some kind of a guitar player I'm a hack and I love guitars !

    The myth :The most disturbing thing about buying a fake Les Paul is how my research after the purchase is received by Forum members ??? 2020

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    The Myth: If I would have lived with MOM & mooched till I was 48 I would play like Clapton !
    Think about it
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  4. #4

    Re: Opinion on '58 Les Paul Special please

    Well, those things aren't cheap. For the price I would hope it is as original as possible. That's why I'm asking

  5. #5
    Les Paul Forum Co-Owner Tom Wittrock's Avatar
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    Re: Opinion on '58 Les Paul Special please

    Keys look right, although the buttons look replaced [which is normal].

    Colored wires don't look right. Hopefully so others will reply also.
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  6. #6

    Re: Opinion on '58 Les Paul Special please

    Thanks Tom. I guess those buttons are pretty fragile and time and wear damage them.

    The colored wires do have the period correct 2 strand weave. According to a website the newer ones use 3 strand weave (a weave with 3 cables at a time). I hope the pickups are original since they are important pieces...

  7. #7
    Les Paul Forum Member fakejake's Avatar
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    Re: Opinion on '58 Les Paul Special please

    R&F Charle, Paris?

  8. #8

    Re: Opinion on '58 Les Paul Special please

    G-C Paris, but I guess we're talking about the same

  9. #9
    Les Paul Forum Member au_rick's Avatar
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    Re: Opinion on '58 Les Paul Special please

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Wittrock View Post
    Keys look right, although the buttons look replaced [which is normal].

    Colored wires don't look right. Hopefully so others will reply also.
    Heat shrink ??
    Any facts stated above questionable, and opinions are not necessarily to be taken seriously

  10. #10
    Les Paul Forum Member fakejake's Avatar
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    Re: Opinion on '58 Les Paul Special please

    Quote Originally Posted by GibbyLover View Post
    G-C Paris, but I guess we're talking about the same
    OK, yeah. I recognized the beautiful floor tilings and the arcade!

  11. #11

    Re: Opinion on '58 Les Paul Special please

    Possible, but why resolder the cables to the switch? If the pickups were changed, the cable could have been cut and need to lengthen, but not to the switch?

  12. #12
    Les Paul Forum Member 2002standardmat's Avatar
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    Re: Opinion on '58 Les Paul Special please

    Quote Originally Posted by au_rick View Post
    Heat shrink ??
    That's what I thought, heat shrinked or coloured sheath over the ends to identify them during work?

    Betting the colour does not extend to under the weave?
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  13. #13
    Les Paul Forum Co-Owner Tom Wittrock's Avatar
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    Re: Opinion on '58 Les Paul Special please

    Quote Originally Posted by GibbyLover View Post
    Thanks Tom. I guess those buttons are pretty fragile and time and wear damage them.
    Actually, the buttons deteriorate over time because of the chemical mixture when the plastic [for the buttons] was mixed. The slowly shrink and eventually crumble. Not all of the buttons do this at the same rate of time, as the plastic was [probably] hand mixed and varied enough that some lasted longer than others. It is so common no [60+ years later] that we expect original keys to have replacement buttons.
    Pauls to the walls!

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  14. #14

    Re: Opinion on '58 Les Paul Special please

    Thanks again Tom.

    I got some info from the seller:
    - it had a refret, which is pretty normal
    - all soldering has been redone, I don't really know why. I asked about the cables but the heat shrink makes sense
    - original tuners (no mention of the knobs, but thats no big deal)

    I asked if there is a case.

    Can anyone verify the pickups are original?

    Now I need to think about the price. It would be my first vintage and expensive guitar, which makes it even more stressy

  15. #15

    Re: Opinion on '58 Les Paul Special please

    Both volume pots may have been changed as they are not the same as the tone pots. Probably at this time that heat shrink has been put on, and the reason why the neck pickup volume knob is broken.
    The tuners may be original but this guitar had some other tuners (Grovers?) for a while as show the washer's inprints around the eyelets. In this case, the tuners holes were probably enlarged. Depending on the way the holes have been (or not) restored, it may affect tuning stability as well as tuner's longevity. If I were considering buying this guitar, I would like to see what's going on under these tuners.
    The pickups look ok to me.
    With all due respect, I am not sure I share Tom's opinion about the tuners's buttons (on this very instrument, not on the matter of the way some deteriorate)

  16. #16
    Les Paul Forum Co-Owner Tom Wittrock's Avatar
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    Re: Opinion on '58 Les Paul Special please

    Quote Originally Posted by poor man's burst View Post
    With all due respect, I am not sure I share Tom's opinion about the tuners's buttons (on this very instrument, not on the matter of the way some deteriorate)
    I wouldn't be surprised if you're correct.
    Pauls to the walls!

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  17. #17
    Les Paul Forum Member sws1's Avatar
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    Re: Opinion on '58 Les Paul Special please

    I could be wrong...but does it look like the neck has been out? The cavity wall is not flush, and there is a wood chip missing at the bottom with no finish on it.
    Maybe it's the pic.

  18. #18

    Re: Opinion on '58 Les Paul Special please

    I hope you're wrong, but I see what you mean.
    Now I notice a covered screw hole on the right of the neck.

  19. #19
    Les Paul Forum Member sws1's Avatar
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    Re: Opinion on '58 Les Paul Special please

    Quote Originally Posted by GibbyLover View Post
    I hope you're wrong, but I see what you mean.
    Now I notice a covered screw hole on the right of the neck.
    I saw that too. Wondered if maybe there used to be a Standard pick guard on it.

  20. #20
    Les Paul Forum Member marshall1987's Avatar
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    Re: Opinion on '58 Les Paul Special please

    Looks like a very nice vintage LP special. I don't see anything wrong with the bridge pickup cavity. Plenty of vintage Specials look just like yours. There's no good reason why the guitar neck would have been removed in the past.

    Unless I'm mistaken, the small chisel marks in the neck pickup rout are there to accommodate the taped pickup wiring bundle at the base of the P-90. This was needed so the P-90 could be mounted flush in the rout.
    "Scan not a friend under a microscopic glass; you know his faults so let his foibles pass".

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  21. #21

    Re: Opinion on '58 Les Paul Special please

    The insulation on the cap legs on the 58 I offed a year or so ago weren't yellow, they were more flesh or tan colored.

    Also, there is a disc cap instead of one bumble bee.

  22. #22

    Re: Opinion on '58 Les Paul Special please

    1956_lp_special_cavity.jpg
    Above photo is from a 1956 Gibson Les Paul Special purchased from Mark's Guitar Loft. This is what a pristine cavity looks like. I believe the previous owner was Charles Daughtry, according to Mark. Useful for determining how the spaghetti tubing around each cap has aged.


    DSCN1150.jpg

    This photo is from one of my many JR's (not sure which year). The best test for determining if this P90 is from the right era is sound (unfortunately). Next reasonable test is to blacklight the tape around the bobbin. If it glows green/blue, chances are it's good. Some people claim they can fake the color, but who would go to all that trouble on a guitar that sells for $10K or less?

  23. #23

    Re: Opinion on '58 Les Paul Special please

    Thanks for looking.
    The isolation will be have been changed when they resoldered all contacts. It seems they added isolation on the the other cables too.
    The price mught be right, but the the changes at the electronics might make it difficult to resell. I know guitars are not for investment, but I would prefer to get my money back, since it's quite expensive.

  24. #24
    Les Paul Forum Member latestarter's Avatar
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    Re: Opinion on '58 Les Paul Special please

    Everything is relative - what price?
    Otherwise known as Grant.

  25. #25

    Re: Opinion on '58 Les Paul Special please

    Price is 9500€.

  26. #26

    Re: Opinion on '58 Les Paul Special please

    Quote Originally Posted by GibbyLover View Post
    Price is 9500€.
    Gary's Classic has a bona fide 1957 SC LP Special for under $12K USD. When he says, "Fabulous sounding, Lively & Resonant", you can believe it. It's all about the music. Nothing matters but the music. (Not a direct quote from The Red Shoes, but close). I know that money AND authenticity matters, but I would aim for all three goals, if possible. My family has blown a quarter of a million dollars, and $175K (two big mistakes) in our lifetime. Is it too late to reverse the mistake?

  27. #27

    Re: Opinion on '58 Les Paul Special please

    I'm in Europe. We pay 6% import and another 21% taxes, so buying in USA is too expensive
    Last edited by GibbyLover; 04-05-20 at 10:19 AM.

  28. #28
    Les Paul Forum Member
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    Re: Opinion on '58 Les Paul Special please

    The bridge pup cavity has been carved on the depths of the bridge side for what ever reason? I don't think the neck has been remove/reset based on the knotches in the neck pup cavity, since 3 of my single cut Specials have chipped off neck side tables on the wire channel edge. Possibly to fit the wires and braiding? Finish looks correct and original as do the P90s IMHO? The lacquer finished wire insulators may have cracked when the volume pots were changed out making them need to install newer insulation or shrink wrap?? The lacquered cloth covered wire insulators are many times very brittle when moved. My 1958 doesn't have the neoprene switch "shock ring" which is not unusual but I really wished it did? Nice looking Special!

  29. #29

    Re: Opinion on '58 Les Paul Special please

    Quote Originally Posted by GibbyLover View Post
    I'm in Europe. We pay 6% import and another 21% taxes, so buying in USA is too expensive
    Try Joseph kay Guitars in london he has a nice 57 in for sale ,you can him through facebook

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