Now It's Getting Personal

So this is bad and I really don't understand the real catastrophe from CV 19 China or EU has experienced yet here in the states. Korea has done a great job and socially seems to respect "the greater good" over personal satisfaction.
That said, my band cancelled practice yesterday.
Cancelled practice.
I would guess at the volume we sometimes get to the most virulent agent wouldn't stand a chance.

It was very cool to see folks doing their gym classes en mass in Spain and community sing-alongs in Italy.

I hope everyone is safe- and God bless health care workers.

Amen!

Like others, I suspect, I’ve run the gamut in the last two weeks. Ranging from, this is total horse shit to understanding more about the virus. Total lockdown has happened in San Fran and I’m only 100 miles East. So, gonna grab some food, booze and some new strings and count my (waning) blessings.

Here’s to all of you and your families making it through this unscathed! :salude

Let's flatten that curve! The next 2 weeks will be critical to saving lives and getting everything back to normal by summer.
Be safe out there!

:salude

People here in the states are losing thier minds over the Kung Flu.

I've been in touch with friends in the US.
They're Hong Kong people who've chosen to live abroad
for various reasons.
Without exception, they're shocked at the cavalier attitude
being displayed, with spring break in Florida and St. Paddy's day
in various cities being cited as examples.

We're fortunate in Hong Kong, to (touch wood) be on the path
to recovery from the craziness brought about by the virus.
The cleaning out of hygiene supplies and canned food has long since
abated. Folks here have been sending their surplus face masks to family and
friends state-side.

Our most recent new cases of Covid-19 have been imported.
People who couldn't get tested abroad, have been returning to HK for testing.

The LKS Hong Kong University Medical center has developed a test which can
provide results in as little as 2 hours!
I can't imagine why other countries which have insufficient testing supplies have
not begun to use this method.
Here's a link to the article, published a couple of weeks ago.

Read the link. They're providing the information on testing & the reagents, free of charge. They'll test samples from places which lack the tech to carry out tests on their own.
Please be safe.

I choose "the greater good."

I know a long time LPF member lost a close member of his family to COVID, and so have countless others across the world. I know people are bitching about being quarantined, but it really is for your own good, and for the well being of others. I know I'd rather be doing a lot of things I cannot do right now, but the situation is what it is. Do the right thing. Stay safe, stay healthy.

‘The right thing.’ Boy, has THAT line been blurred since this thread was started. We now know the models were completely wrong, that world death numbers are still .002% and this virus was probably on the west coast of the US LAST fall. And state governors have turned into petty dictators spending new found money like drunken sailors, and are still doing business with Communist China. Do the right thing, indeed. Whatever the hell that is.

Doc Sausage said:

‘The right thing.’ Boy, has THAT line been blurred since this thread was started. We now know the models were completely wrong, that world death numbers are still .002% and this virus was probably on the west coast of the US LAST fall. And state governors have turned into petty dictators spending new found money like drunken sailors, and are still doing business with Communist China. Do the right thing, indeed. Whatever the hell that is.

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Here is a good explanation on the coronavirus models. From an article today on CNN website relating to Texas governor's comments.

1) Patrick's dismissal of "science" appears entirely based on the fact that projections about how many people will die have been all over the map.*But projections are just that -- attempts to project the future of a very uncertain set of circumstances. Any model that produces a projection like the ones Patrick is dismissing rely on a series of data and assumptions. So yes, if NO social distancing measures had been put in place, it is possible several million Americans could have died. And now that most states have adhered to stay-at-home and social distancing measures, those numbers are much lower. Projections changing is, well, what good projections do when the underlying data and assumptions change.

As for the actual "science" here, Patrick is dead wrong about it. The science has been pretty damn accurate actually. Doctors have made clear for months that Covid-19 posed a unique threat because of its high level of transmissibility, the possibility of asymptomatic transmission, no herd immunity and the lack of a vaccine or even an effective treatment. All of which is*still*true.

2) Patrick seems not to grasp the difference between necessary and unnecessary risks.*It is absolutely true that every time you get behind the wheel of a car or fly on an airplane, there is a risk of dying. But you accept that risk as minimal and necessary because you a) use your car to get to work or b) want to see parts of the world that only a plane can get you to. So you take what you believe to be a necessary risk.

That's very different than what Patrick is advocating for here. Reopening the country -- given what we know about the deadly effects of coronavirus -- is an unnecessary risk. Coronavirus is now the*leading cause of death*in the country. It has infected more than three-quarters of a million people and*killed 41,000 as of Tuesday morning.

And there's this: Deciding to go back to your normal routines doesn't just impact you. It impacts every single person you come into contact with. because, without widespread testing, who's to say that you aren't an asymptomatic carrier of the virus? Or that your symptoms simply haven't begun to show yet? Again, unnecessary risk.

3) I keep trying to wrap my mind around Patrick's claim that "there are more important things than living."*As a Catholic, I do understand the belief that if we die, we can hope for the reward of Heaven, which is a far better place than life on Earth. But that doesn't seem to be the argument Patrick is actually making. He seems to be suggesting that an economic slowdown or recession is worse than dying. Which, like, no?

The point here is that Patrick's argument might make some sense to people the first time they hear it. The economy is struggling! And projections about the number of deaths from coronavirus have been all over the map!

But scratch the surface and you quickly see the profoundly illogical underpinning what Patrick is saying. My worry -- and it should be your worry too -- is that lots of people listening to Patrick don't scratch the surface.

Doc Sausage said:

‘The right thing.’ Boy, has THAT line been blurred since this thread was started. We now know the models were completely wrong, that world death numbers are still .002% and this virus was probably on the west coast of the US LAST fall. And state governors have turned into petty dictators spending new found money like drunken sailors, and are still doing business with Communist China. Do the right thing, indeed. Whatever the hell that is.

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Stop sneaking your warped politics into this tragedy. It’s not allowed and no one is interested.

coming up on 50,000 deaths now. Here in America. And, just to set the record straight, the trillions of dollars spent has been spent by the president and the Federal government.

We will be at Vietnam Nam levels of American dead in about 10 days.

Take the death count with a grain of salt. The CDC guidelines tell medical staff to classify any death they assume or suspect to be caused by COVID-19 as caused by COVID-19 even without testing for it, and also classify all deaths as caused by covid-19 if the patient dies of any cause and happens to test positive for COVID-19. If you die of brain cancer and happen to test positive for COVID-19, they count it as a covid-19 death.

Also, since the government is picking up the tab for all covid-19 treatment, paying up to $300K per patient, hospitals all are motivated to classify everything as covid-19 related, especially with the CDC guidelines not requiring testing for COVID-19.

I'd be surprised if covid-19 US deaths are 20% of what is being reported. Research into Italy's high death count revealed only 12% of the covid-19 deaths they reported were actually caused by COVID 19.

This whole global panic is going to go down as the biggest unwarranted freak out in the history of mankind.

I encourage healthy skepticism.



However, my Mom is an ER Nurse right now on contract east of Kansas City. They've seen a big uptick in patients COVID positive right after the initial quiet spell. They don't need to kit test them, it's the same symptoms that they don't really see with anything else: Well functioning lungs/heart but short breathing with scary low blood oxygen levels coupled with crazy high iron levels making their blood almost black. Many who recover were still 100% in need of ICU care like oxygen, meds and in a scary place numbers wise often for more than a week. Thus, if you have any other issues but die of cardiac arrest while having COVID it's about 90% chance the COVID did the trick to put you over the top. She's very clear that people dying from car accidents or heart attacks alone etc are most certainly not being listed as COVID positive where she's at and she's told me she's never seen anything with these symptoms before. Also, at her facility, they're encouraging the large amount of young people that come in with symptoms to go home and fight it out.

As for cooking the books, who knows. On the flip side how about those with no insurance, $5,000 deductibles and/or just dirt poor folks who die at home or under bridges that aren't being counted if any?


Whatever the numbers end up being and whether you can trust them there's zero question that the disease itself is freaky as **** because it doesn't act like a regular flu or cold.

deytookerjaabs - The federal govt is paying for any and all covid-19 medical expenses not covered by insurance, so not having health insurance or having a high deductible is not stopping people from getting free treatment. This is a huge motivator for doctors and hospitals to classify everything as COVID-19 so they'll get 100% paid by the feds. Given hospitals are going broke because they can't perform any elective procedures right now and the CDC only requires presumption someone has covid-19, they are cooking the books on covid-19 cases no doubt.


Here is the information on how Italy records their covid-19 deaths, which is the same way the CDC has advised the US to record deaths. The Covid-19 deaths in Italy are actually only 12% of what has been reported.


https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/its-catching/202003/covid-19-making-sense-the-numbers

"Another factor affecting the mortality rate in Italy involves health reporting protocols. Professor Walter Ricciardi, an advisor to the Italian Health Ministry, observes that the high death rates there may reflect the way that deaths are recorded. “The way in which we code deaths in our country is very generous in the sense that all the people who die ... with the coronavirus are deemed to be dying of the coronavirus," he has said. “On re-evaluation by the National Institute of Health, only 12 percent of death certificates have shown a direct causality from coronavirus, while 88 percent of patients who have died have at least one pre-morbidity—many had two or three” (Newey, 2020). Pre-morbidity refers to having serious health issues prior to the onset of a disease."

57Strat777 said:

deytookerjaabs - The federal govt is paying for any and all covid-19 medical expenses not covered by insurance, so not having health insurance or having a high deductible is not stopping people from getting free treatment. This is a huge motivator for doctors and hospitals to classify everything as COVID-19 so they'll get 100% paid by the feds. Given hospitals are going broke because they can't perform any elective procedures right now and the CDC only requires presumption someone has covid-19, they are cooking the books on covid-19 cases no doubt.


Here is the information on how Italy records their covid-19 deaths, which is the same way the CDC has advised the US to record deaths. The Covid-19 deaths in Italy are actually only 12% of what has been reported.


https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/its-catching/202003/covid-19-making-sense-the-numbers

"Another factor affecting the mortality rate in Italy involves health reporting protocols. Professor Walter Ricciardi, an advisor to the Italian Health Ministry, observes that the high death rates there may reflect the way that deaths are recorded. “The way in which we code deaths in our country is very generous in the sense that all the people who die ... with the coronavirus are deemed to be dying of the coronavirus," he has said. “On re-evaluation by the National Institute of Health, only 12 percent of death certificates have shown a direct causality from coronavirus, while 88 percent of patients who have died have at least one pre-morbidity—many had two or three” (Newey, 2020). Pre-morbidity refers to having serious health issues prior to the onset of a disease."

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The government is paying hospitals on the back end. This puts hospitals in charge of defining the billing process from discharge fees to the use of emergency-only services to all other myriads of the hospitalization process and if they're wrong it's the consumer who will have to battle on their own behalf.

If you think hospitals aren't going to double dip and still find ways to bill their patients then I admire your faith in the process. Maybe that will happen. I've still gotten a few head-scratching bills that were technically covered under "good" insurance plans that wasted days of my life with call center employees just to get reversed.

Personally, I know a number of people right now who wouldn't go to a hospital unless they were 100% in morbid condition regardless of the "Cares" act and any delay in needed treatment is a bad thing.

And, as for cause of death, you're doing yourself a disservice with that argument. When immune affecting disorders wreak havoc in the body it's usually not the infection that technically kills the patient...it's straight up everything else that goes wrong, but the bottom line is whether or not patient A would be dead at that moment if they had not had the infection. So, you can make the same silly argument about morbidity rate with everything from the Flu to AIDS.

Here is a doctor at a hospital talking on video about how they classify covid-19 cases. Basically ANYONE with breathing problems gets classified as COVID-19. Stage 4 lung cancer, heart failure, pancreas failure and liver failure all get classified at COVID19 according to this doctor. He's also standing in a room full of ventilators and states there is no shortage of ventilators and their ventilator usage is lower now than pre-covid19.

https://twitter.com/EM_KA_17/status/1252512735537094656


Here is Dr. Birx, who used to run the CDC and now is one of the "experts" on the US COVID-19 task force, telling us that if you die of any cause and happen to test positive for COVID-19, they classify the death as COVID-19.

https://twitter.com/Breaking911/status/1247691218240315393



As for why this is happening. It is pretty obvious people want to tap into the $2.5 trillion the feds are passing around. Don't forget that the Feds are paying 100% of all covid-19 medical treatment that is not covered by insurance, so doctors and hospitals are motivated to classify everything as Covid-19. The higher the covid-19 deaths, the more research money will be handed out, the more money will be paid to doctors and hospitals to cover treatment, and higher covid-19 death numbers will help vindicate the "experts" that told us millions would die.

57Strat777 said:

Take the death count with a grain of salt. The CDC guidelines tell medical staff to classify any death they assume or suspect to be caused by COVID-19 as caused by COVID-19 even without testing for it, and also classify all deaths as caused by covid-19 if the patient dies of any cause and happens to test positive for COVID-19. If you die of brain cancer and happen to test positive for COVID-19, they count it as a covid-19 death.

Also, since the government is picking up the tab for all covid-19 treatment, paying up to $170K per patient, hospitals all are motivated to classify everything as covid-19 related, especially with the CDC guidelines not requiring testing for COVID-19.

I'd be surprised if covid-19 US deaths are 20% of what is being reported. Research into Italy's high death count revealed only 12% of the covid-19 deaths they reported were actually caused by COVID 19.

This whole global panic is going to go down as the biggest unwarranted freak out in the history of mankind.

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There hasn’t been enough testing to get an accurate count on deaths. If anything, deaths and cases are undercounted due to lack of overall testing.

If there is any doubt, come to New York City where I live. We don’t have enough places to bury the dead. Our funeral homes our maxed out and our health care workers are exhausted. We are coming up to 5X the amount of deaths that we witnessed on 9/11. 17 deaths in one facility in my mom’s very small New Jersey town.

Anybody who doubts the ferocity of this should come to NYC and gown up to work in a hospital or head to Jersey and maybe work in a grocery store for a week.
Stayy healthy and safe. God bless.

edwina said:

There hasn’t been enough testing to get an accurate count on deaths. If anything, deaths and cases are undercounted due to lack of overall testing.

If there is any doubt, come to New York City where I live. We don’t have enough places to bury the dead. Our funeral homes our maxed out and our health care workers are exhausted. We are coming up to 5X the amount of deaths that we witnessed on 9/11. 17 deaths in one facility in my mom’s very small New Jersey town.

Anybody who doubts the ferocity of this should come to NYC and gown up to work in a hospital or head to Jersey and maybe work in a grocery store for a week.
Stayy healthy and safe. God bless.

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Yeah.....things in NYC are apparently so dire that the hospital ship sent to NYC is leaving after treating only 179 patients in 3 weeks


The 500-bed US Navy hospital ship Comfort is leaving NYC after treating just 179 patients in 3 weeks

https://www.businessinsider.com/usns-comfort-leaving-nyc-few-coronavirus-patients-three-weeks-2020-4

Army field hospital for Covid-19 surge leaves Seattle after 9 days. It never saw a single patient


https://www.kuow.org/stories/washin...PkOXeGb3SQvmglN9ND6Q2hXQHmpwfG6Byo4CVvjXg2N3k


Gov. Jay Inslee's office on Wednesday announced that the state will be returning a field hospital deployed to CenturyLink Field Event Center to the U.S. Department of Defense.