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Muddy sounding neck P-90 on ‘19 R6

Dave71

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May 8, 2005
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290
The neck pickup on my R6 is pretty muddy/dark sounding. Pickups are the stock Gibby Soapbars and both measure 7.9k. The neck pickup is also louder than the bridge. Now I understand this is not unusual, but I’m wondering if a magnet swap on the neck pickup may be an avenue to explore. Anyone have any experience or suggestions? Thanks in advance.
 

mdubya

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Mar 31, 2010
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The neck pickup on my R6 is pretty muddy/dark sounding. Pickups are the stock Gibby Soapbars and both measure 7.9k. The neck pickup is also louder than the bridge. Now I understand this is not unusual, but I’m wondering if a magnet swap on the neck pickup may be an avenue to explore. Anyone have any experience or suggestions? Thanks in advance.


Are the P-90's height adjustable on your R6?

I know they are not always adjustable on Custom Shop guitars.

I have routed mine for adjustability, but I understand that is not something everyone would want to do.

Before routing, I simply ran the volume low enough to balance with the bridge p/u and to keep from the neck p/u from being too hot.

I was 100% happy with routing my guitar, though. It made all the difference for me.
 

Dave71

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May 8, 2005
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No, they’re not adjustable, and I don’t want to go routing anything on it. The biggest thing I’m interested in is more clarity from the neck pickup. That’s why I am considering a magnet swap, before a pickup swap.
 

goldtop0

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Your problem is more symtomatic of a humbucker LP isn't it..........a strange problem for a P90 guitar in my experience......usually the neck pup is quite crisp and clear.
What magnets are used in the P90s these days.
 

Dave71

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May 8, 2005
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Your problem is more symtomatic of a humbucker LP isn't it..........a strange problem for a P90 guitar in my experience......usually the neck pup is quite crisp and clear.
What magnets are used in the P90s these days.

The stock Gibson P90 has A5 magnets.
 

goldtop0

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The stock Gibson P90 has A5 magnets.


A5s in my books are the most aggressive robust sounding mags of all of them.
I've done magnet swaps over the years and generally settle with A2s or A4s in my humbucker LPs.........A5s being just a bit too game changing in the neck pup.
Maybe try another pair of A5s in your neck P90?? Everyone here talks well of the Throbak magnets........they seem to be the 'go to' ones.
 

Johnny Bom Bonny

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Feb 26, 2020
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The neck pickup on my R6 is pretty muddy/dark sounding. Pickups are the stock Gibby Soapbars and both measure 7.9k. The neck pickup is also louder than the bridge. Now I understand this is not unusual, but I’m wondering if a magnet swap on the neck pickup may be an avenue to explore. Anyone have any experience or suggestions? Thanks in advance.

Hi, I had this same problem with a 2014 R4. The P-90s measured about 8k ohms each. Both pickups were dark and muddy with poor note definition, and were not well balanced. I believe that the custom shop has been using Alnico II for the magnets in their goldtop reissues. I swapped the neck pickup magnets to Alnico IV, and put un-oriented Alnico V in the bridge. This increased the clarity, brightness, output and balance. I was satisfied with it for a short time but eventually decided to replace both pickups with a custom set from Electric City Pickups, into which I installed Alnico III magnets. Now I think the guitar sounds very close to an original '50s goldtop.
 

mdubya

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The A2's in my ES 330 are much mellower than my A5 P-90's.

I usually lower my A5 neck P-90's but actually shimmed up the A2 neck pickup in my 330 for more output.

You won't know until you try!

From what I understand, A3 and A5 are vintage correct.

Also, IMHO, the routes in an R6 are not vintage correct, thus inducing the problems you are having.
 

goldtop0

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Also, IMHO, the routes in an R6 are not vintage correct, thus inducing the problems you are having.


So with a '50s vintage GT you can adjust the P90s up and down??..... how was this done...........and why did Gibson not make the reissue historics the same??......do you know at all.
Just now went and looked at the routings in my '13 R6 and the pups sit straight on top of the wood with the neck tenon maybe 1/8" to a 1/4" below that.
 

mdubya

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So with a '50s vintage GT you can adjust the P90s up and down??..... how was this done...........and why did Gibson not make the reissue historics the same??......do you know at all.
Just now went and looked at the routings in my '13 R6 and the pups sit straight on top of the wood with the neck tenon maybe 1/8" to a 1/4" below that.


I am not the definitive word on this, but I have seen some very shallow routes on R4/R6 variants.

I have a CS Firebird that had the P-90s right up against the strings to the point the action could not go as low as one might like.

Vintage were direct mounted to the wood, but we have seen many examples where they needed to be shimmed UP or to have the pole pieces raised significantly.

Maybe it was wrong of me to assume that OP's routes are too shallow, but it sure sounds that way to me. The new Original Collection 50's LP with P-90's and most of the USA model P-90 LPs I have seen have deep routes and adjustable pickups (including my old 50's Tribute P-90 LP). This makes it much easier to dial in and tame P-90's that are set too close to the strings and too hot or unbalanced.

There's hardly anything better than a P-90 LP, so making it work seems like a good idea to me. I currently have an LP Special. The pickups are adjustable, they balance beautifully, and the damn guitar sounds like a million bucks. :peace2


********

Another comment for OP, since he has made me think! I have an SG with an A2 Duncan Phat Cat in the neck. Even pushed right up against the strings, it is noticeably more quiet than the early 57 Classic + in the bridge.

A2's might be worth a try. OR A3's, even.

2qeHwsh.jpg
 

mdubya

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Here is a pic of how low P-90's can sometimes be. This example could benefit from shims or foam or springs to actually raise the pickups.

Gibson-Les-Paul-1952-Goldtop-2.jpg
 

goldtop0

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Thanks for all the info mdubya.
I've seen threads and posts about shims etc in the past but until you actually get with the process yourself........as is said, it's all in the experience of doing it.
One day I'll get with a '50s GT..............might have to buy one.........that'd be good huh!!
 

Big Al

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Apr 24, 2002
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You adjust the amps tone controls for the neck pickup tone you want and adjust the bridge pup tone on the guitar.
 

Hamerfan

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Dec 20, 2004
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I own some different P-90's, one from 52, one 65, a pair of 70ies and recent pair from 2011. I did a lot of magnet swapping with the recent pair, because the neck was muddy and boomy, bridge was bright and thin. Not my favorite combo.
If you can get a hold of an A3 or two, try them in the neck. The more invasive mod is also to wind down the coil to 7.5k or so.
 

Dave71

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May 8, 2005
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I appreciate all the replies. I picked up a pair of A3 magnets, and at some point I’ll get around to trying them out.
 

TM1

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Jun 27, 2003
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If you get some magnets from ThroBak you'll be good! Ask Jon what will clear it up. All his magnets are made in USA. They're not the wrong formula/mix Chinese magnets that almost everyone else(including Gibson & Duncan) uses. Personally I'd try the ThroBak A-4's in there and as well, a P-90 uses 2 magnets in each pickup!
 

Johnhe

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Mar 4, 2020
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There are two things I do on my P90 guitars:

1. Adjusting the pole pieces make a dramatic difference in clarity I my opinion. Raising them by turning them anti-clockwise can add a lot of treble. It can also change the nature of the sound, so the result may not be for everyone. But there is a reason you often see that the pole pieces have been adjusted on vintage P90s. Lowering the pick and raising the polepieces make a big difference.
Plus, it’s free and easy to try this - even easier than a magnet swap!
2. I agree with the poster above who recommends setting your amp up for your neck pickup and then backing off the tone control on the bridge pickup.
 
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