Fit and Finish question on my new 2019 Gibson Original Collection 50's Les Paul

Big Al · Feb 25, 2020

sunking101 said:
You're accepting mediocrity and defending bad workmanship.
The pickguard and its bracket are an extremely poor design. Quite why they can send out elaborately painted and finished guitars with this shoddy contraption knowingly damaging the surface is beyond me. The crude nut and bolt need to be kept further away from the guitar's body by way of a longer bracket. Epiphone manage this so why don't Gibson??
Just look at the healthy gap between the bolt and top of the guitar in this photo I took of a 2020 Epiphone Les Paul hanging on the racks. Gibson know that some people remove the pickguard and even if they don't there should be no damage underneath. It's nothing like removing a table leg and complaining about a mark that's hidden by the leg like a previous poster remarked.

Really? Well hell there is a flippin screw hole ON THE FACE of the guitar when you REMOVE the pickguard,[something Gibson doesn't support. Pickguard protects finish],.

Why oh why do we endure these indignaties? OMG!! I just unscrewed the truss rod cover and took it off, you know to look kewell and check the workmanship and wouldn't you know it, 2 flippin screw holes!!!!! AND THE TRUSS ROD NUT WAS NOT EVENLY PAINTED!!! NOR WAS THE ROUT FINISH RUBBE OUT AND POLISHED!!!!!! WTF!!!!!:bigal:bigal:bigal:bigal

Yes I'm agahst!, agog with outrage! Just saddens me, ...... to read such ignorant drivel. Yes indeed just buy an Epiphoney and spare me the hubbub, bub.

To the op, brother what you see on new guitars is the slight surface marring of fresh lacquer that has a metal bracket screwed against it. You could rub that out easily, if you wanted, not a crack. You would see the exact same thing on an Epiphoney if they had nitro lacquer instead of a super thick plastic poly finish.

lp56tv · Feb 25, 2020

Big Al said:
Really? Well hell there is a flippin screw hole ON THE FACE of the guitar when you REMOVE the picguard. Why oh why do we endure these indignaties? OMG!! I just unscrewed the truss rod cover and took it off, you know to look kewell and check the workmanship and wouldn't you know it, 2 flippin screw holes!!!!! AND THE TRUSS ROD NUT WAS NOT EVENLY PAINTED!!! NOR WAS THE ROUT FINISH RUBBE OUT AND POLISHED!!!!!! WTF!!!!!:bigal:bigal:bigal:bigal

Yes I'm agahst!, agog with outrage! Just saddens me, ...... to read such ignorant drivel. Yes indeed just buy an Epiphoney and spare me the hubbub, bub.

To the op, brother what you see on new guitars is the slight surface marring of fresh lacquer that has a metal bracket screwed against it. You could rub that out easily, if you wanted, not a crack. You would see the exact same thing on an Epiphoney if they had nitro lacquer instead of a super thick plastic poly finish.

Yes I realize that now. It did come with a felt pad that protects the topside of the guitar so thats good.

Big Al · Feb 25, 2020

lp56tv said:
Yes I realize that now. It did come with a felt pad that protects the topside of the guitar so thats good.

Yeah, nut bite has happened since day one in '52. That won't rub out and I wasn't thinkin' you were talkin' about that. Gibson doesn't intend that the pickguard be removed. When we do, it's on us and that little bracket marr will pale next to the damage to tops finish.

sunking101 · Feb 25, 2020

Big Al said:
Really? Well hell there is a flippin screw hole ON THE FACE of the guitar when you REMOVE the pickguard,[something Gibson doesn't support. Pickguard protects finish],.

Why oh why do we endure these indignaties? OMG!! I just unscrewed the truss rod cover and took it off, you know to look kewell and check the workmanship and wouldn't you know it, 2 flippin screw holes!!!!! AND THE TRUSS ROD NUT WAS NOT EVENLY PAINTED!!! NOR WAS THE ROUT FINISH RUBBE OUT AND POLISHED!!!!!! WTF!!!!!:bigal:bigal:bigal:bigal

Yes I'm agahst!, agog with outrage! Just saddens me, ...... to read such ignorant drivel. Yes indeed just buy an Epiphoney and spare me the hubbub, bub.

To the op, brother what you see on new guitars is the slight surface marring of fresh lacquer that has a metal bracket screwed against it. You could rub that out easily, if you wanted, not a crack. You would see the exact same thing on an Epiphoney if they had nitro lacquer instead of a super thick plastic poly finish.

I don't own any Epiphones. On my two Gibson LPs which came with factory fitted pickguards neither have any blemishes in the nitro where the bracket attaches so there goes that theory of yours. No cracks, no marks, just a screwhole.

As for just blindly accepting flaws in high value items, that's your choice. I take them back for a refund and get one that isn't flawed. I do however put up with the dent that the pickguard nut and bolt leave because sadly they're all like that. I bought a 2019 Traditional that came with the pickguard in the case, it was unattached and there were no screwholes in the guitar. That guitar has zero flaws. My LP Custom and Standard I live with the pickguard flaws but there's still no excuse for it. Gibson should quit with the clumsy way they attach these pickguards.

bobalu · Feb 25, 2020

Big Al said:
Bunch of overblown hubbub. :bigal:hank:rolleyes

Now Henry, you don't work for Gibson anymore so just move along........ :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

Big Al · Feb 25, 2020

sunking101 said:
I don't own any Epiphones. On my two Gibson LPs which came with factory fitted pickguards neither have any blemishes in the nitro where the bracket attaches so there goes that theory of yours. No cracks, no marks, just a screwhole.

As for just blindly accepting flaws in high value items, that's your choice. I take them back for a refund and get one that isn't flawed. I do however put up with the dent that the pickguard nut and bolt leave because sadly they're all like that. I bought a 2019 Traditional that came with the pickguard in the case, it was unattached and there were no screwholes in the guitar. That guitar has zero flaws. My LP Custom and Standard I live with the pickguard flaws but there's still no excuse for it. Gibson should quit with the clumsy way they attach these pickguards.

Don't buy a Gibson Les Paul. They had a screwless pickguard. Everyone bitched about it. People want traditionaly built Les Pauls. Don't buy an American icon and bitch on the tradition. Can't have it both ways. WTF!:bigal:bigal They just went through hell because of modernising them and restored a more vintage correct build that most people want, with the core series, but hey, you know better.

sunking101 · Feb 25, 2020

Big Al said:
Don't buy a Gibson Les Paul. They had a screwless pickguard. Everyone bitched about it. People want traditionaly built Les Pauls. Don't buy an American icon and bitch on the tradition. Can't have it both ways. WTF!:bigal:bigal They just went through hell because of modernising them and restored a more vintage correct build that most people want, with the core series, but hey, you know better.

Like I said, if you're cool with mediocrity then so be it. They should redesign the clumsy pickguard. It will still look exactly the same! Just put a slightly longer bracket on which flares the guard higher off the body. Oh and use a shorter bolt and thinner nut. This isn't rocket science, Gibson should have done it years ago.

Coachmoe · Mar 4, 2020

lp56tv said:
Its actually not visible with the bracket on so that good.
Part of me wants to keep it and the other part of me says I just paid $2500.00 for a new Les Paul I should be able to put my own dents and scratches in it.

I bought two 2019 Gibson's a Goldtop with P90's and and SG Special last year and a 2018 SG. All 3 were perfect. I would not let the issue you have keep me from enjoying the guitar.

Could have happened during shipping. it might have been soft nitro, line worker tightened it a little too snug. Put the pickguard back on it and play it. 6 months from now, you'll have forgotten all about it.

If that's the only issue and you like the guitar, don't worry about it. Life is too short to worry over piddley stuff.:dude::dude::dude:

Coachmoe · Mar 4, 2020

sunking101 said:
You're accepting mediocrity and defending bad workmanship.
The pickguard and its bracket are an extremely poor design. Quite why they can send out elaborately painted and finished guitars with this shoddy contraption knowingly damaging the surface is beyond me. The crude nut and bolt need to be kept further away from the guitar's body by way of a longer bracket. Epiphone manage this so why don't Gibson??
Just look at the healthy gap between the bolt and top of the guitar in this photo I took of a 2020 Epiphone Les Paul hanging on the racks. Gibson know that some people remove the pickguard and even if they don't there should be no damage underneath. It's nothing like removing a table leg and complaining about a mark that's hidden by the leg like a previous poster remarked.

Yes, the Epi bracket is higher but when you bang down on the pickguard, it will still probably mark the finish. I've put felt washers under my pickguards since 1977. It's not an issue, it's not mediocrity. Even a 95K Ferrari has issues. Life is too short to worry about PIDDLEY stuff.

Coachmoe · Mar 4, 2020

sunking101 said:
Like I said, if you're cool with mediocrity then so be it. They should redesign the clumsy pickguard. It will still look exactly the same! Just put a slightly longer bracket on which flares the guard higher off the body. Oh and use a shorter bolt and thinner nut. This isn't rocket science, Gibson should have done it years ago.

Sunking, let me point out to you that Big Al has over 13,000 posts. He goes way back to the Henry - era and probably beyond. Guys like Al, me, it's been there done that. I can tell you personally that after owning brand new Gibson's from the mid 70's until now, the quality of the 2019 / 2020 Gibson guitars is outstanding. If you want perfection, forget it, a man made object will never be perfect. Stop talking about mediocrity. You have no concepty of what TRUE mediocrity is.

sunking101 · Mar 5, 2020

Coachmoe said:
Sunking, let me point out to you that Big Al has over 13,000 posts. He goes way back to the Henry - era and probably beyond. Guys like Al, me, it's been there done that. I can tell you personally that after owning brand new Gibson's from the mid 70's until now, the quality of the 2019 / 2020 Gibson guitars is outstanding. If you want perfection, forget it, a man made object will never be perfect. Stop talking about mediocrity. You have no concepty of what TRUE mediocrity is.

Look, I own four Gibsons. Quit being so defensive.
The design of the pickguard is clumsy, period. The nut should not damage the top of the guitar. It's crude and it's mediocre. Gibson should have got on top of this eons ago.

Big Al · Mar 5, 2020

sunking101 said:
Look, I own four Gibsons. Quit being so defensive.
The design of the pickguard is clumsy, period. The nut should not damage the top of the guitar. It's crude and it's mediocre. Gibson should have got on top of this eons ago.

So says you. I can nit pick and "improve" every single part of any guitar. The guitar was designed in early 50's borrowing on existing archtop guitars to create a Gibson quality solid body. Back then pickguards were not intended to be removed, as it protects a vulnerable area from nail and pick damage while offering an optimal angle to use as a finger rest. They could have screwed it directly to the top, eliminating the bracket, but the used a modified archtop bracket.

Now if you remove it, you deal with it, it wasn't meant to, and the pickguard shadow, screw holes, lacquer impressions and occasional nut bite are to be expected, and desired by some, but are nothing compared to how it will appear if you play it often enough. You'll never see a nut bite after finger and pick wear remove any trace.

You seem to think that you can build a better Paul, what with all your mediocre declarations, so how did such talent escape HJ's attention? You would have fit right in.

Bitchin' about a vintage part or build on the most authentic classic vintage Standard since 1960, except for Custom Shop Reissues, guitars marketed as a return to a vintage "Core Series" shows a personal mediocrity and high levels of Hubbubery. You might want to get a shot or somethin before it becomes terminal.:teeth:##:##

sunking101 · Mar 5, 2020

Big Al said:
So says you. I can nit pick and "improve" every single part of any guitar. The guitar was designed in early 50's borrowing on existing archtop guitars to create a Gibson quality solid body. Back then pickguards were not intended to be removed, as it protects a vulnerable area from nail and pick damage while offering an optimal angle to use as a finger rest. They could have screwed it directly to the top, eliminating the bracket, but the used a modified archtop bracket.

Now if you remove it, you deal with it, it wasn't meant to, and the pickguard shadow, screw holes, lacquer impressions and occasional nut bite are to be expected, and desired by some, but are nothing compared to how it will appear if you play it often enough. You'll never see a nut bite after finger and pick wear remove any trace.

You seem to think that you can build a better Paul, what with all your mediocre declarations, so how did such talent escape HJ's attention? You would have fit right in.

Bitchin' about a vintage part or build on the most authentic classic vintage Standard since 1960, except for Custom Shop Reissues, guitars marketed as a return to a vintage "Core Series" shows a personal mediocrity and high levels of Hubbubery. You might want to get a shot or somethin before it becomes terminal.:teeth:##:##

If you want to get all 'period correct' then let them destroy the tops of reissues and historics with the inferior pickguard attachment but the rest of us deserve something better. This could have been improved DECADES ago by having a slightly larger bracket, a slightly smaller bolt and a slightly thinner nut. The pickguard to all intents and purposes would look IDENTICAL, it just wouldn't damage the top of the guitar.

However much you try to defend it there is absolutely no excuse for such a crude pickguard assembly on these expensive guitars. If Epiphone can get it right then Gibson should too. There's no point squeezing a bit of felt under the nut because the felt itself will leave a dent or impression in the top of the guitar. There is simply not enough room underneath the nut & bolt and it needs sorting. Whether people remove their pickguards or not there is no excuse for this damage. None whatsoever.

Big Al · Mar 5, 2020

sunking101 said:
If you want to get all 'period correct' then let them destroy the tops of reissues and historics with the inferior pickguard attachment but the rest of us deserve something better. This could have been improved DECADES ago by having a slightly larger bracket, a slightly smaller bolt and a slightly thinner nut. The pickguard to all intents and purposes would look IDENTICAL, it just wouldn't damage the top of the guitar.

However much you try to defend it there is absolutely no excuse for such a crude pickguard assembly on these expensive guitars. If Epiphone can get it right then Gibson should too. There's no point squeezing a bit of felt under the nut because the felt itself will leave a dent or impression in the top of the guitar. There is simply not enough room underneath the nut & bolt and it needs sorting. Whether people remove their pickguards or not there is no excuse for this damage. None whatsoever.

Stick to Epiphoney's. Buy HP or Modern versions. Your argument lacks merit and your opinion carries no weight.

Bathed in ignorance and wrapped up in sanctimonious slatherings of simpletonian suggestery, for your's is truly the voice in the wilderness, I can hear it echoing in the distance, rising from some dank swampy place, hub bub, hub bub, hub bub, hub bub, nothing but hub bub, bud.:##:##:##:##:##

lvidal · Mar 5, 2020

A lot of the more cherished, loved and best sounding guitars have broken necks and are full of scratches, dings, cracks and even holes and crazy mods and you are worried about such a tiny nitro crack. Think about it and how that sounds in your head.

I always complained that Gibson should never put the pickguard and let the owner decides, but just because the pickguard should be a personal choice and if you don’t want it you shouldn’t have two holes you didn’t asked for.

Keefoman · Mar 5, 2020

Removed the pickguard on my 2006 R8 for the first time ever... Guess what? There's a mark in the laquer from the pickguard bracket, and now I can't "unknow" it... :dang

Well, it's full of dings and scratches anyway... On with the show (and the pickguard.)! :yah

pqs · Mar 6, 2020

If you want nitro and a pickguard with a metal mounting bracket, it’ll mark the finish where the bracket attaches to the body. No matter how long is the bracket. Heck, sometimes the plastic output jack plate marks the finish. That’s just nitro being nitro.

As for the top, the felted nut approach is working, so why redesign something that’s working. With that said, the nut the holds the pickguard to the bracket on both my R9 and R0 had a healthy clearance from the top, granted not as huge as the picture of this Epiphone. My first standard 50s was before the felted nut and had a ding so small that I had to use a magnifying glass to see it. Sold that Standard to get something else, then regretted it so I returned the something else and go another Standard 50s. My current Standard came with the felt. I absolute love that guitar. I’m a pickguard off guy, though for some reason I kept it on my Standard.

These guitars are amazing. To say they have mediocre workmanship is just ludicrous. I currently own 3 Gibson Custom Les Pauls (R9, R0 and Special), yet my Standard gets plenty play time.

Elliot Easton · Mar 10, 2020

To me, it looks like an overtightened screw. Lots of pickguard cracks and these type of indentations are caused that way.

Texas Blues · Mar 11, 2020

Elliot Easton said:
To me, it looks like an overtightened screw. Lots of pickguard cracks and these type of indentations are caused that way.

Damn you Mr. Easton.

I am sick and tired of you having common sense!

El Gringo · Mar 11, 2020

If you removed the pickguard on my very first Gibson Les Paul Custom you would see and feel the mark from the screw/bolt /bracket thing holding the pickguard . You know what the pickguard is on there and I don't like at it(the mark ) as the pickguard is there and it's not a big deal to me as it's out of sight and out of mind . Now on my figured R9's, and R8's -no pickguards as I am not covering up the figured maple . This is really nonsense , either deal with it with or without the pickguard mounted or get another guitar . Who cares what Epiphone does . It's all about historical accuracy as that's what true Les Paul enthusiast want !

Fit and Finish question on my new 2019 Gibson Original Collection 50's Les Paul

Well-known member

Member

Well-known member

Member

Member

Well-known member

Member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Member

Well-known member

Member

Well-known member

Member

Active member

Active member

Well-known member

Active member

Well-known member