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Ultra Modern Weight Relief

Big Daddy Class

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Jan 11, 2020
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I was curious about the weight relief of my 2006 Class 5 Custom. It is listed as Ultra Modern and I have seen differing photos online so I had it xrayed. This is what I found.....2006 Class 5 custom.jpg
 

Big Daddy Class

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and my 2018 Tribute with no weight relief2018 Les paul traditional honeyburst xray.jpg it was misnamed when the file was created on the pc as "Traditional" but it is, in fact, a "tribute" as it says on the xray.
 

Big Daddy Class

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The Class 5 was intended to be my user name, but it was taken or rejected for some reason. Kids call me "Big Daddy" (likely because I am 6'6"?) and every user name I tried was taken so I put in Big Daddy Class 5 (since I have 2 of the Class 5s) and it cut off the 5.
 

GotTheSilver

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Cool x-rays! Instead of just doing straight lines, they should draw pictures with the chambering. At least a smiley face or a palm tree. Would make these x-rays much more fun!
 

Thunder Dump

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Mar 8, 2009
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I believe Class 5s have 17 smaller swiss cheese holes.

That is correct. The original weight-relief spec for a Class 5 was 17 1/2" diameter drilled holes, as opposed to the "modern weigh-relief" method of 9 1" diameter holes. I've never seen an "ultra modern weight-relief" body, but if you count them there are still 17 holes in Big Daddy's Class 5 and they appear to be 1/2" wide, but are just slots instead of holes. Interesting.
 

Big Daddy Class

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I have another class 5 and a Prototype Standard that is supposed to be "regular" modern weight relief. I'll x-ray those soon and we will see what secrets lie in there.
 

Big Daddy Class

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2002 Les Paul Custom Class 5 xray.jpgHere is my other Class 5, a 2002 (in tangerine burst). Clearly with the same weight relief as the 2006 posted previously. Obviously the 17 "round hole" models are not the only type they made since I have 2 that look like this, made 4 years apart.
 

Big Daddy Class

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2002 Les Paul Custom Class 5 xray.jpg2006 Class 5 custom.jpgWhen I look online and Google "Ultra Modern Weight relief", I can find NO pictures that look like my 2 guitars--yet here we are! 2 of them with the exact same pattern. Orange custom is of course labeled on the xray. Black 2006 is also lableled but I cut that off (reposted both just in case anyone wishes to see them side by side.) The wiring is slightly different as is the way the jack is configured at the bottom. Also apparent are the mineral streaks in the mahogany but curiously not the grain or any mineral streaks in the maple (there are some in the orange maple). If anyone wants to have their guitar xrayed, we used the setting for "knee". The xray tech will know what that means.
 

Thunder Dump

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View attachment 11133Here is my other Class 5, a 2002 (in tangerine burst). Clearly with the same weight relief as the 2006 posted previously. Obviously the 17 "round hole" models are not the only type they made since I have 2 that look like this, made 4 years apart.

Well then I'm more inclined to believe that the Class 5 weight relief standard is the 17 1/2" elongated holes like you have. It never really made sense to have 17 1/2" diameter holes as a different weight relief scheme from the traditional 9 1" holes, because it's actually less weight relief by 1 1/2" hole. That doesn't seem like it would be worth the effort. But the elongated holes certainly make a significant difference.
 

Big Daddy Class

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Not that it matters to this discussion, but my Orange 2002 Class 5 is 8 lbs exactly, my Black 2006 Class 5 is 8lbs 4 oz, my non weight relieved Tribute is 7 lbs 4 ounces, and my Studio that is fully chambered (xray above) is 7 lbs 1 ounce. I weighed them all when I xrayed them
 

Señor Verde

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Do you notice much sound difference between them all? I've read the ones with a lot of chambering sound different, some people say the same...
 

Big Daddy Class

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Do you notice much sound difference between them all? I've read the ones with a lot of chambering sound different, some people say the same...
It is a little hard to say. Some days I feel like one sounds better than the rest, or I hear something in one of them that I do not hear in the others--then I try to repeat it the next day only to feel like they are all more similar than I had thought the day before. Truth is I am far better at buying guitars than I am at playing guitars and they are all better than my ability to play them. My fully chambered studio is lighter than the rest and somehow just screams "pick me up and play me". My tribute seems to have the best neck. My black Class 5 seemingly sounds the best to me and until today I thought it sounded best acoustically, but in playing both Class 5s together in the same quiet room (seems strange but I have never done that before) they are very very similar. I also have a standard prototype model (that I was told is actually a custom shop model although labeled as a USA model--no proof other than a guy at Gibson's word) that I thought was my best sounding but lately I am questioning that. Lately I have felt it is a bit too bright? "Lowest" (and cheapest at "free") of my guitars is a Chinese Chibson guitar that was given to me by a guy who runs a pawn shop (and actually lost $800 thinking it was a real Les Paul Custom--he was subsequently scared to re-sell living in Nashville with Gibson down the street)--I recently spent about 2 days playing only that guitar and then when I switched back to my Orange Class 5, I immediately was able to recognize the real Gibson's superiority in sound and feel.


Full disclosure on the Chibson--I wrote (in white paint pen) and carved "fake" inside of all the cavities and under the pickups in hopes it can never be sold again. My 16 year old (better guitarist than me) likes to take it to campfires with his buddies with a little battery powered Marshall amp and also to hand it to his non-guitar playing buddies when they come over. I would burn it in the bonfire before I would ever sell it or allow it to fool someone. I would have never bought one but it WAS free and is actually not a terrible guitar. My wife claims she cannot hear much difference (again I am not a great player). I speculate it was made in the Epiphone factory because the fit and finish is quite good (good enough to fool 8 pawn shops in Nashville and it was quite a news headline when it happened). The alleged mastermind (who denies it) was a guy named Buckley Mills if anyone cares to Google the story. There was a middle man who took the fall in the whole deal. In an interesting twist, I had it set up at none other than Gruhn Guitars by one of their luthiers under direct supervision of George Gruhn himself--who demanded I bring it in because he was so curious about it. Maybe Ill also xray my Chibson? For sure going to xray my Standard prototype (custom?).
 

Big Daddy Class

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2016 Les Paul Standard Prototype whole guitar.jpg20191226_121241.jpg my Standard prototype and my sons little battery powered Marshall amp.20191207_134738.jpg20191207_134758.jpg20191207_122307.jpg and a couple of guitars at Gruhn's and a selfie of me and George Gruhn at a reptile show in Nashville. He owns dozens and dozens of snakes and we went to the reptile show so he could buy frozen mice to feed them and to look at the snakes.
 

Big Daddy Class

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Trying to upload a picture of my Chibson but I guess I have uploaded too many photos today, it will not let me.
 

Big Daddy Class

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Well then I'm more inclined to believe that the Class 5 weight relief standard is the 17 1/2" elongated holes like you have. It never really made sense to have 17 1/2" diameter holes as a different weight relief scheme from the traditional 9 1" holes, because it's actually less weight relief by 1 1/2" hole. That doesn't seem like it would be worth the effort. But the elongated holes certainly make a significant difference.
Remember from Geometry that a doubling of the radius of a circle actually increases the area of that circle by 4x, so 9 1 inch holes would be more weight removed (as a function of the volume of wood removed) than 17 1/2 inch holes. Still an invalid point with my 1/2 inch ovals, but in case your sophomore Geometry teacher is reading this--9 one inch holes are more volume than 17 1/2 inch holes.
 

El Gringo

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Apr 8, 2015
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I have to ask how much each of your weight relieved guitars weighs please ?
 
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