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Jeff Beck

au_rick

Active member
Joined
Mar 18, 2010
Messages
871
The legal position you state is incorrect. There are conditions that must be satisfied before it becomes a criminal matter, not least of which is mens rea. "Handling" and "possession" are different, and are treated differently.

Then there's the civil element, and the police have also advised your poorly. In the UK, the best thing to do is inform the holder of the item that it is stolen property and, at law, this creates a constructive trust, whereby the holder cannot dispose or otherwise deal with the item in question, until such time as the matter has been dealt with (either through negotiation or via the courts). Failure to do so is a breach of trust, which has both civil and criminal sanctions.

I've really been around the block on this one.....both with guitars and other assets.

Sure, I don't doubt your experience, but mens rea is not applicable to all crimes (otherwise this could be used in the "I wasn't aware of the law" defence, which is usually no defence at all ?).
Further, in Western Australia:

"A person who is in possession of anything capable of being stolen that is reasonably suspected to be stolen or otherwise unlawfully obtained is guilty of a crime and is liable to a fine of $24,000 and imprisonment for 2 years for a summary matter or imprisonment for 7 years for an indictable matter.
It is a defence to a charge under this section if the accused had no reasonable grounds for suspecting that the thing was unlawfully obtained."

In my case I was fortunate that the dealer I bought the goods from refunded me the purchase price, although I never found out if the police did pursue the matter.
 
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c_wester

Well-known member
Joined
May 9, 2002
Messages
2,116
I dont know anything about this, but I know I have trouble making my neighbor give me a 100 dollars let alone a Vintage 59 Les Paul.
 

Big Al

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
14,537
Al, you appear to be incorrectly assuming it was PM who offered the guitar back to Beck.

No, that was in regards to that part of the story. Hard to believe, kinda like calling up and asking to buy someone's stolen property. "Hey Jeff, old stick. How's the Wife, finish the Ford? Say, remember that funky old guitar you had stolen? You don't want it, right? Great! So I can buy it and you don't mind? Yeah, cool beans! What's that, send me a signed release? C'mon, we don't need that, I'll just tell 'em you said it's OK on the telephone."

Really, nothing ludicrous about any of this.:ha:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

I'd have said, Hey, he wants to give it back! For nothing!! Help a brother out, tell him you want me to have it! In writing please. but then, that's just me.
 

Tom Wittrock

Les Paul Forum Co-Owner
Joined
Aug 2, 2001
Messages
42,567
I know him also, and had this conversation 40 yrs ago. Cool that you believe your friend but you don't KNOW squat.

I talked to Perry 40 years ago about him getting this Les Paul? I find that hard to believe.

As for "squat", I know a lot more than that. :ganz
 

Big Al

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
14,537
I talked to Perry 40 years ago about him getting this Les Paul? I find that hard to believe.

As for "squat", I know a lot more than that. :ganz

Tom, you know squat is about the phone calls, unless you were listening in that is exactly what you know. As to exact nature of my conversations, again you know squat. What I'm not about to do is declare anything on a forum or speculate what may or may not be true as I don't know all the details, but apparently neither do you.

What I know is there is more going on than anyone here knows and all this speculation only fuels bullshit theorys or knee jerk declarations of fact by folks who can't yet know the facts. For someone who takes every post so extremely literal this should be obvious.

Also my goofing on the phone calls is only to show that there is no record of the calls other than claims by involved party disputed by the other. My opinion is it's humorous to just accept as fact.
 

Tom Wittrock

Les Paul Forum Co-Owner
Joined
Aug 2, 2001
Messages
42,567
You talked to Perry 40 years ago about him getting this Les Paul? I find that hard to believe.

As for "squat", I know a lot more than that. :ganz

Tom, you know squat is about the phone calls, unless you were listening in that is exactly what you know. As to exact nature of my conversations, again you know squat. What I'm not about to do is declare anything on a forum or speculate what may or may not be true as I don't know all the details, but apparently neither do you.

What I know is there is more going on than anyone here knows and all this speculation only fuels bullshit theorys or knee jerk declarations of fact by folks who can't yet know the facts. For someone who takes every post so extremely literal this should be obvious.

Also my goofing on the phone calls is only to show that there is no record of the calls other than claims by involved party disputed by the other. My opinion is it's humorous to just accept as fact.

Sorry, Big Al. I wrote the wrong word [pronoun] and did not proofread my post.
You seemed to be saying you talked to Perry about this guitar and deal with Jeff Beck, some 40 years ago.
If that's what you are saying, that this episode is over 40 years old [Perry finding it and talking to Jeff], then I yield to your decades old knowledge on this particular event.
 

F-Hole

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 2, 2015
Messages
2,171
If that's what you are saying, that this episode is over 40 years old [Perry finding it and talking to Jeff], then I yield to your decades old knowledge on this particular event.

Which would require time travel, as the guitar wasn't sold until 2000.
 

Big Al

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
14,537
Sorry, Big Al. I wrote the wrong word [pronoun] and did not proofread my post.
You seemed to be saying you talked to Perry about this guitar and deal with Jeff Beck, some 40 years ago.
If that's what you are saying, that this episode is over 40 years old [Perry finding it and talking to Jeff], then I yield to your decades old knowledge on this particular event.

No Tom, I think I wasn't clear, I had no knowledge of a purchase in '79, there was a conversation regarding the guitar relevant to its eventual purchase, but not regarding the purchase specifically. It's eventual purchase came as no surprise, that's all I'll say. I have no knowledge about the purchase or how it really went down. Only questions and two opposing versions of events.
 

Tom Wittrock

Les Paul Forum Co-Owner
Joined
Aug 2, 2001
Messages
42,567
No Tom, I think I wasn't clear, I had no knowledge of a purchase in '79, there was a conversation regarding the guitar relevant to its eventual purchase, but not regarding the purchase specifically. It's eventual purchase came as no surprise, that's all I'll say. I have no knowledge about the purchase or how it really went down. Only questions and two opposing versions of events.

Okay, that "40 yrs ago" statement truly confused me.
 
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