R8/R9 price difference

mach1 · Jan 26, 2020

I'm in the market for a '19 or '20 cs. Was wondering why there such a substantial difference in price between R8 and R9?

Micky Mojo · Jan 26, 2020

There’s a premium for the flame top on the R9.

Ace139 · Jan 26, 2020

Originally - the R9s were the ones with flame top and the R8s with plain top and R7 GTs were less expensive. As time has gone on I think as a general rule that could still be true - but there have been various examples of R8 having tops that rival the R9s. I also think the R9 neck size I more highly sought after. Have had both over the years - and as always it’s about each instrument - flame does not not always equal the best sounding playing guitar but when they do come together it’s pretty awesome. Good Luck.

Tim Plains · Jan 27, 2020

The only real reason is because Gibson can and people pay it. 1959 was thee year, so they charge more for reissues with 9 serial numbers.

Big Al · Jan 27, 2020

All the wood, not just tops. R9's get top pick of available wood and each is spec'd for figure and weight. On average any year R9 has higher quality top and lighter weight mahogany than R8 from same year. Most R8's have larger necks. Biggest $$ difference is between plaintop R8 and highly figured R9. Highly figured used R8's can sell as much as some R9's.

If you've shopped them you must have noticed the diff.

Big Al · Jan 27, 2020

Tim Plains said:
The only real reason is because Gibson can and people pay it. 1959 was thee year, so they charge more for reissues with 9 serial numbers.

Really. Is that the only difference, Tim?

Redwine · Jan 27, 2020

I sold a 2018 R9 (avatar) last year for 4k flat with a nice flame.

Like Al said, some of those R8's can cost just as much. The big difference in $ you're seeing is between R8 Plains and R9 Flames.

pqs · Jan 27, 2020

Like others have said, you are paying a premium on the R9 and R0 for the more figured tops and lighter mahogany used for the body. However, I believe it’s mostly the top. For instance an R0/G0 (Guitar Center exclusive R0) is priced similar to an R8. They have lightly figured tops and in some years you could also find plain tops both akin to R8s. Yet the weight on those R0/G0 seem to be in the same range as regular R0s.

Sorry to switch gears to R0s. I just thought that the G0 and regular R0 could used to shed some light on the price difference between R8 and R9 or R0.

Tim Plains · Jan 27, 2020

Big Al said:
Really. Is that the only difference, Tim?

Yes, Al. Gibson started offering flame top R8s around 2010, then shaved the necks down 2013/onwards blurring the line between R8s and R9s. There really is no difference in many R8s aside from maybe a few ounces.

Case in point. A 2016 R8 I owned. 8.7 lbs, R9 neck, R9 worthy top, all without the R9 price. There are many R8s out there just like this.

http://imgur.com/a/bV3GF3E

AA00475Bassman · Jan 27, 2020

I bought my first R8 plain top 1998 .

CatManDoo88 · Jan 27, 2020

The last couple years of R8s also have tall and narrow frets instead of the usual medium jumbos as well right? While that obviously does not justify the price difference, if the OP is looking to buy a new model R8, its a playability issue that may affect his choice.

To be honest, I'm kinda frustrated with the Custom Shop's obsession with flame in recent years. Personally, I prefer plaintops or light figuring as seen on a lot of vintage tops. All of the recent so-called "plaintop" R8s that come up on Reverb or in-store near me lately seem to have as much figure as an average vintage Burst and the R9s typically have perfectly bookmatched monster tops. Great for the flame hunters, but not so much for those of us who like more subtle or uneven tops. I'd love for Gibson to just offer R8s, R9s, R0s all in an assortment of tops (perhaps with a reduced price for the plainer and/or mismatched ones). They could save a lot of quality wood that doesn't meet their aesthetic requirements that way.

Ace139 · Jan 27, 2020

Big Al said:
All the wood, not just tops. R9's get top pick of available wood and each is spec'd for figure and weight. On average any year R9 has higher quality top and lighter weight mahogany than R8 from same year. Most R8's have larger necks. Biggest $$ difference is between plaintop R8 and highly figured R9. Highly figured used R8's can sell as much as some R9's.

If you've shopped them you must have noticed the diff.

Thanks Al, was not aware of the wood differences. :dude:

Big Al · Jan 27, 2020

Tim Plains said:
Yes, Al. Gibson started offering flame top R8s around 2010, then shaved the necks down 2013/onwards blurring the line between R8s and R9s. There really is no difference in many R8s aside from maybe a few ounces.

Case in point. A 2016 R8 I owned. 8.7 lbs, R9 neck, R9 worthy top, all without the R9 price. There are many R8s out there just like this.

http://imgur.com/a/bV3GF3E

Actually Tim, Flametop R8's were commonly available in late 90's, [those beautiful Butterscotch ones], and on and off from 2001 on. It is only in comparison of same year models that the difference becomes apparent and only on average as one can find spectacular R8's and Meh ho hum looking R9's.

Pre 2013 the difference was pretty clear, regardless how flamey the R8's ran heavy on average with huge necks, [which I like], and finish choices. Things changed in 2013.

I own a R9 and a R8 from '13 an spec'd a left hand 2014 Made to Measure R8 for a friend.
My '13 R8 is a beautiful figured Eastern Rock Maple top sold as a plain maple model. I love it, looooooved the price and bought it because it plays and sounds the way I like.

It is not the same as my R9. It is heavier. Though reduced from previous years, the neck is larger than the R9, but beautifully profiled with a comfortable carve. Beautiful as it is, the maple top isn't near the quality of the R9. Fingerboards on 8's are not as dark, [on average], yet are high quality EI Rosewood and I find the grainy vivid striped rosewood lovely. But as nice as they are, there are clear wood quality and spec differences. Far more than an 8 or a 9.

The 2014 M2M R8 turned out great, but I could only choose from wood preselected as R8 grade. I chose well, the guitar equals some R9's and it cost almost as much.

New, it pays to shop. Being aware of the difference for yom helps for spec. Appearance is a personal call and spectacular R8's sometimes show up. Most dealers know and are less willing to deal on them. Me? I prefer mild figure and not into vivid stripes. I like some of the subtle figure strong color R8's alot. They aren't common enough as everything is stripe, stripe, stripe.

Cliff Gress · Jan 28, 2020

Big Al said:
All the wood, not just tops. R9's get top pick of available wood and each is spec'd for figure and weight. On average any year R9 has higher quality top and lighter weight mahogany than R8 from same year. Most R8's have larger necks. Biggest $$ difference is between plaintop R8 and highly figured R9. Highly figured used R8's can sell as much as some R9's.

If you've shopped them you must have noticed the diff.

Off topic, but how would you compare an R7s neck to an R8 and R9?

doctorvmusic · Jan 28, 2020

Cliff Gress said:
Off topic, but how would you compare an R7s neck to an R8 and R9?

I'm interested in this answer as well. Recently got an R7 and I'm amazed by how thin the neck feels. From what I have read I expected something FAT. I can't imagine playing a thinner neck to be honest.

Cliff Gress · Jan 28, 2020

doctorvmusic said:
I'm interested in this answer as well. Recently got an R7 and I'm amazed by how thin the neck feels. From what I have read I expected something FAT. I can't imagine playing a thinner neck to be honest.

My 335 is quite thin, while my 63 Melody Maker has a wonderful neck. My 2010 R7 feels like the MM but with a bit more shoulder. Did necks get fat in 58 and then lose weight in 59? I had a CS 58 TV Model which was the largest neck of my guitars, really big.

So are R7s and R9 necks similar with 58s being the outlier?

mach1 · Jan 29, 2020

Thanks much for all responses. I actually prefer the lowly plain top over the flame tops .With that said, I am more concerned with tone and playability. Thanks again for the insights.

Big Al · Jan 29, 2020

Cliff Gress said:
Off topic, but how would you compare an R7s neck to an R8 and R9?

Most I tried were identical to R8 though quite a few more like a R9. Some I tried from early/mid 2000's were huge!! It really depends on yom. There were some 60 slim profile necks on some that may have been a FSR Dealer run but they are not common.

Mostly it seems that it represents some popular vintage mythos held by vintage worshipping public with zero vintage experience. That is, the unknowing expectation of what a vintage neck profile is. They read a book, think they know and Gibson panders to it. "Early 50's were huge, 58's huge, 59 big and 60 slim." That's popular belief.

Most reissue necks are wrong. Too big, on average. Just what was expected. Vintage necks show a range too, even in the same year and sometimes big differences year to year. So you can't fault Gibson. Still, ......?

CatManDoo88 · Jan 30, 2020

mach1 said:
Thanks much for all responses. I actually prefer the lowly plain top over the flame tops .With that said, I am more concerned with tone and playability. Thanks again for the insights.

There are some who say that plaintops sound better than flametops actually. The theory goes that figuring reduces the hardness/stiffness of wood (which is why flame or birdseye maple necks are softer and less stable). In contrast, plaintops are harder and allegedly resonate better. Some claim that plaintops sound woodier as a result.

Also, in case it got buried in all of the discussion about figuring, if playability is your concern, you should make sure you play a 2019 or 2020 R8 before you buy. They changed them recently to have narrow/tall frets instead of the more coveted medium jumbos found on older R8s and all R9s and R0s. I haven't played the historic tall/narrow frets, but you may have a distinct preference.

Scott L · Jan 30, 2020

At this point it's getting harder and harder to generalize what Reissue will have what feature.

Take a guess what this is ???

R8 with Nice Top, V2 60s Neck.....

Brand	Gibson Custom Shop

Model	Wildwood Spec 1958 Les Paul Standard
Finish Color	Wildwood Burst
Finish Type	Nitrocellulose Lacquer
Weight	8.42 lbs.
Top Wood	Carved Maple attached with Hot Hide Glue
Body Wood	Solid Non-Weight Relieved Mahogany
Neck Wood	1-Piece Mahogany Neck
Neck Shape	Slim '60s-Inspired V2 Rounded Profile
Neck Dimensions	.810 1st - .950 12th

R8/R9 price difference

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