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Jimmy Page Mod with 50s wiring

bocacra

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Dec 17, 2019
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5
Hi All,

I'm new in this forum as bought my first LP recently. It is a white burst signature T, and the very first time i had it in my hands I new i wanted to re-wire it to the Jimmy Page mod, to get those parallel/series and out of phase sounds.

I had never wired a guitar before, but following a youtube tutorial I managed to get the guitar sounding, without noise and it seems that is totally working, all the phase switching and the series/parallel options. The tutorial is from "Breja Tone Works", I chose it because had the 50s wiring incorporated (if it is the capacitors location), and the question I have is about the 50s wiring. Wit russian pio 0.022 and 0.015 micro farads.

In general, I found the sound with more "top end" (english is not my first languaje sorry if the terminology is not accurate), i mean the highs are louder and the lows are almost the same, the result is like a "middle-lost"... does it make sense? Since the mod could not add more highs, I am thinking that I lost some middle range... Also i changed the strings, maybe could it be that?

When i use the controls, i don't get any similar to what is said here in this forum, theoretically the tone should become more bright if I leave the tone at 4/5 and lower the volume.

When i have the volumen at 10, it seems ok. If i put the tone at 4 and lower the volume, the sound lose the "highs" very quick, with the tone at 0 the result is like playing inside a swimming pool...

When i leave the tone knob at 10 and lower the volume the result is great, no treble lost, but with that "middle-lost" the result is a "slim" sound, no strong, maybe is because the wiring itself or I did something wrong...

Has this happened to anyone? ANyone has tried the jimmy page mod with 50s wiring and didn't lose the middle range?

Thanks

D.
 

Bulwark

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Jun 22, 2019
Messages
52
Welcome to the forum!

Sounds like you wired it correctly to me. I’ve done that setup as well, and having compared it to another Les Paul that instead just had the neck pickup’s magnet flipped, I can say from experience that the tonal difference is quite stark.

When simply wired out-of-phase, it does seem to lose a lot of midrange, and volume. Additionally, unbalanced levels on either the volume knobs or the tone knobs doesn’t yield as many playable colors. If one pickup’s volume or tone strays too far from the other’s value, that pickup just drops out. This is to be expected.

With just a magnet flip, you get that weird nasal thing but without nearly as much loss of volume or “substance.” Unfortunately, that can’t be turned off with the flick of a switch.

What I found did a decent job of remedying this was engaging both the out-of-phase option with the switch to series at the same time. Series naturally makes everything louder, especially lower frequencies, and seemed to very nicely beef up what you “lose” with the phase switch. These can actually be wired to happen with a single DPDT switch, so if you’re considering marrying the two features for ease of on/off, that’s totally doable. I don’t think I’ve seen it on a wiring diagram, you’ll just have to reason your way through that one probably.
 

mrbeasty

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Dec 19, 2002
Messages
114
Jimmy Page never used any such tricks during the glory days of Zeppelin. His #2 Les Paul received similar mods in the late into the ‘70s, and Jimmy added a coil split on the bridge pickup of #1 in the last couple decades which is also irrelevant to the Zep era. The famous “Jimmy Page wiring” that is all over the Internet appeared with the JP signature Les Paul in 1995 which he arguably seldomly used.

Jimmy’s famous ‘70s “out of phase” sound can be obtained by playing with the height of the two pickups, which will always have some amount of phasing due to their different physical locations and any small manufacturing differences. Set your switch to the middle position and adjust pickup height to find the spot with the most “chirp”, while you play the main riff from The Ocean ... and that’s it.
Some pickup sets are better at this than others, but they all do it.

My $0.02!
 

somebodyelseuk

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Jun 10, 2020
Messages
454
Jimmy Page never used any such tricks during the glory days of Zeppelin. His #2 Les Paul received similar mods in the late into the ‘70s, and Jimmy added a coil split on the bridge pickup of #1 in the last couple decades which is also irrelevant to the Zep era. The famous “Jimmy Page wiring” that is all over the Internet appeared with the JP signature Les Paul in 1995 which he arguably seldomly used.

Jimmy’s famous ‘70s “out of phase” sound can be obtained by playing with the height of the two pickups, which will always have some amount of phasing due to their different physical locations and any small manufacturing differences. Set your switch to the middle position and adjust pickup height to find the spot with the most “chirp”, while you play the main riff from The Ocean ... and that’s it.
Some pickup sets are better at this than others, but they all do it.

My $0.02!
All fair comment.
I think the reason for these mods, in the 90s,might have been to save dragging guitars about for the various "Reunion" gigs.
Having series and coil splits allows for setting the LP up for a Dano-ish sound (after the roadie retunes it) for Kashmir etc.
I've a Yamaha that does the phasey stuff. It has a higher wind neck than bridge. FWIW, I remember reading an interview with either Matt Gleeson or Tim Mills, who haad done work on JPs Number 1 where they say it had the hottest PAF they'd seen in the neck.. I'll try and find the interview... I think they quoted somewhere between 8.5k and 8.9k.
 

mrbeasty

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114
All fair comment.

It is indeed a cool set-up that gives (too?) many options.

Duncan’s supposed clones shows a 8.2k neck and a 8.7k bridge, all other specs being standard PAF specs. This is in the neighborhood of what you saw ... that is indeed quite unusually hot. Perhaps one of the hottest PAF set out there.
The only other PAF set I can think off that is at this sort of level are the Pearly Gates (about the same values, although a hair lower, depending on who you ask) although with A2 magnets; while (still according to Duncan) Page’s would all be A5 too.
Bernie Marsden’s The Beast also has a ~8.5k A5 bridge but a normal PAF values in the neck.
 

Bulwark

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Jun 22, 2019
Messages
52
It is indeed a cool set-up that gives (too?) many options.

Funny you should say that, the Jonesy Blues wiring harness was the one I procured (there are a few different versions for sale out there), and despite I think the documentation outlining what you get with 21 different settings, I actually found a few options that weren’t detailed that did come up with more distinct sounds.

That’s right, even the guy that made that interpretation of it overlooked an option.

I’ll freely admit I didn’t use every single option. But then, I’m not that creative a player, from a composition or tonal perspective.

I would still maintain that most people would be surprised at just how many they’d regularly use. Maybe not all, but more than one would anticipate.

Just to toss another option at you: have you considered turning the neck pickup around? As in, screws towards the bridge & slugs toward the neck. It provides another variation of the out of phase tone that doesn’t seem to lose nearly as much “meat” as the wiring method. Of course you have to loosen your strings to the point of them d@mn near falling off to revert back, but it’s a neat sound worth trying out at least once.

If you do try the out-of-phase by wiring, be sure and implement a series/parallel swap as well. The combo is where it’s at. Out-of-phase brings a new color while loosing girth, combine with change to series brings the girth right back.

Aaaand I’m rambling in forums! Take that brew away from me. . . .:salude
 

El Gringo

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Apr 8, 2015
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5,657
Jimmy Page never used any such tricks during the glory days of Zeppelin. His #2 Les Paul received similar mods in the late into the ‘70s, and Jimmy added a coil split on the bridge pickup of #1 in the last couple decades which is also irrelevant to the Zep era. The famous “Jimmy Page wiring” that is all over the Internet appeared with the JP signature Les Paul in 1995 which he arguably seldomly used.

Jimmy’s famous ‘70s “out of phase” sound can be obtained by playing with the height of the two pickups, which will always have some amount of phasing due to their different physical locations and any small manufacturing differences. Set your switch to the middle position and adjust pickup height to find the spot with the most “chirp”, while you play the main riff from The Ocean ... and that’s it.
Some pickup sets are better at this than others, but they all do it.

My $0.02!

So true and I agree that just messing around with the height location can give you some flavor . I can hear a little bit of the OOF this way . I always thought this and never said so and now someone else said and found the same thing . Pretty interesting .
 

mrbeasty

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So true and I agree that just messing around with the height location can give you some flavor . I can hear a little bit of the OOF this way . I always thought this and never said so and now someone else said and found the same thing . Pretty interesting .

One of my favorite Jimmy Page tone is The Ocean. It has that quacks & chirpy tone that comes from being slightly out of phase. I have found that you can get that chirpy middle position from just about any set of PAFs. I typically set the bridge pickup first (because I use that most of the time) then play with the height of the neck pickup. High, then low, usually one reveals more chirps, and that tells you the kind of rapport you need between the two pickups. Then, I check the neck pickup alone to see if it sounds good and still balanced with the bridge pickup (A/B for loudness, tone, etc). That’s where I start to play with the pole pieces. If the neck is too quiet I’ll raise the pickup but lower the pole pieces, etc. ... same with the bridge, until all three positions are good.
I use the riff from The Ocean, over and over ... it works great. All you need is 15 minutes and a screw driver. Instant Led Zeppelin, IMHO.
 
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Classicplayer

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229
Jimmy Page never used any such tricks during the glory days of Zeppelin. His #2 Les Paul received similar mods in the late into the ‘70s, and Jimmy added a coil split on the bridge pickup of #1 in the last couple decades which is also irrelevant to the Zep era. The famous “Jimmy Page wiring” that is all over the Internet appeared with the JP signature Les Paul in 1995 which he arguably seldomly used.

Jimmy’s famous ‘70s “out of phase” sound can be obtained by playing with the height of the two pickups, which will always have some amount of phasing due to their different physical locations and any small manufacturing differences. Set your switch to the middle position and adjust pickup height to find the spot with the most “chirp”, while you play the main riff from The Ocean ... and that’s it.
Some pickup sets are better at this than others, but they all do it.

My $0.02!


I'm a fan of Page and that special tone he got on “The Ocean”. You'd have to have his specific guitar and the pickups were a big part of that tone. The construction of that one guitar is also part of the equation and I also think maybe the way he dialed in his amps. I think that being from that 60's and 70's era of thinner sounding guitars and being that he spent lots of time with a Tele, he perhaps speculated on a bigger sound for ever increasing size of the venues he played in; hence his gravitating towards the Les Paul and a sound with a bit more power. At the O2 reunion in 2007, Zeppelin played (for the first time in public performance) “For Your Life”. Page had a triple pickup Les Paul Custom, and when he gets to a riff just a short time in the song, he moves the pup selector for that familiar thin sound only a bit more gain'd up and reminiscent of that “Ocean” type of tone.

My 2018 Traditional can “approach” that same kind of tone, and to get there, I use an Orange Dark Terror which is normally designed for high gain....higher than I normally use; as in Metal. Setting the amp for a rather thin and crunchy tone puts me in Page territory. The Burstbucker 1 and 2 are part of the tone, and the neck pup is set low in its ring, while the bridge pup is up much closer to the strings. That middle position can get that “chirp”, but nowhere what Page's guitar could get; however I know with my amp set for a thin (not much) mids from the bridge pup, I can use the neck pup volume to change the combined tone of both pups to get either thinner or thicker when called for.


Classicplayer
 

mrbeasty

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I'm a fan of Page and that special tone he got on “The Ocean”. You'd have to have his specific guitar and the pickups were a big part of that tone. The construction of that one guitar is also part of the equation and I also think maybe the way he dialed in his amps. I think that being from that 60's and 70's era of thinner sounding guitars and being that he spent lots of time with a Tele, he perhaps speculated on a bigger sound for ever increasing size of the venues he played in; hence his gravitating towards the Les Paul and a sound with a bit more power.

I have to respectfully disagree. The out-of-phase-ness of the pickups has not dependency on the amp, although I concede that a middy tone probably makes it standout more. I typically dial this stuff on a tiny First Act amp (from Toys’R Us) that sits on my workbench.

You can choose to accentuate or reduce the chirpy-ness of the middle position. Of course different sets of PAFs are more prone give you the ”chirp” and sometimes you find yourself in a slightly extreme scenario (high bridge, low neck) but I am yet to find a set that could not chip.

At the O2 reunion in 2007, Zeppelin played (for the first time in public performance) “For Your Life”. Page had a triple pickup Les Paul Custom, and when he gets to a riff just a short time in the song, he moves the pup selector for that familiar thin sound only a bit more gain'd up and reminiscent of that “Ocean” type of tone.

Probably because all he needs is a bridge and neck humbucker at the right heights to conjure up that sound. If the middle pickup was off, it shouldn’t be a problem at all.
 
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EpiLP1985

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Welcome to the forum!
What I found did a decent job of remedying this was engaging both the out-of-phase option with the switch to series at the same time. Series naturally makes everything louder, especially lower frequencies, and seemed to very nicely beef up what you “lose” with the phase switch. These can actually be wired to happen with a single DPDT switch, so if you’re considering marrying the two features for ease of on/off, that’s totally doable. I don’t think I’ve seen it on a wiring diagram, you’ll just have to reason your way through that one probably.

I can vouch for this. I came to this conclusion as well when looking to better approximate the magnet flip tone I love so much. However, I found a few solutions to the electrical/mechanical differences for OOP that may be worth noting:

1.) Neck PU with OOP switch and Bridge PU with an individual Series/Parallel switch - This worked for me as you described above except it's also useful to have the Series/Parallel option for the bridge humbucker
2.) Bill Lawrence 5-Way switching - I play a humbucker strat and this wiring allows for the 1/2 OOP option in one of the positions. With the guitar rewired for 2 volumes, you get a beefier OOP tone very similar to the magnet flip version.

Looking at the wiring diagrams for these mods, it stands to reason that with a 3PDT or 4PDT toggle you could effectively replicate the beefier tone of the magnet flip OOP electrically.

EDIT: This ought to do it - https://guitarpedalparts.com/produc...MImKjh9Ina6wIVE4nICh0NGAfvEAQYAiABEgI3l_D_BwE
 

El Gringo

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One of my favorite Jimmy Page tone is The Ocean. It has that quacks & chirpy tone that comes from being slightly out of phase. I have found that you can get that chirpy middle position from just about any set of PAFs. I typically set the bridge pickup first (because I use that most of the time) then play with the height of the neck pickup. High, then low, usually one reveals more chirps, and that tells you the kind of rapport you need between the two pickups. Then, I check the neck pickup alone to see if it sounds good and still balanced with the bridge pickup (A/B for loudness, tone, etc). That’s where I start to play with the pole pieces. If the neck is too quiet I’ll raise the pickup but lower the pole pieces, etc. ... same with the bridge, until all three positions are good.
I use the riff from The Ocean, over and over ... it works great. All you need is 15 minutes and a screw driver. Instant Led Zeppelin, IMHO.

Thanks for the tips and I will mess around with the pickups over the weekend which is my fun time to play . It's like we are into the same sounds as I mostly use the bridge pickup as well and use the neck for quieter stuff and yet I like to mess around with that middle position from when I was a kid . Just pure fascination and the beauty is you don't have to do all kinds of exotic things in mods to the Les Paul as it's all there between those 3 positions on the toggle switch and the volume and tone knobs . My philosophy is to keep it as simple as possible and that way focus more on the notes and playing which is the real challenge trying to please my ears .
 

somebodyelseuk

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454
I've a pair of Yamaha SGs that I played in the 80s, a 1000 and a 2000. I read a post, either in this thread or another, that this needs a hotter bridge pickup, however, I can get this on the 1000. I haven't managed it on the 2000, but I haven't put the time in.
Anyway, thing is, these guitars, despite being two years apart, have identical pickups, except for magnet charge. Both have low wind bridge pickups,, 7.0k, and 7.5k neck pickups. Both use A5 magnets, but they're higher charge in the 2000, though, I forget the numbers, they're all higher than where a PAF would be charged.
I stumbled on it quite by chance a couple of years ago. It seems to be a very narrow window of adjustment and considering I took measurements and set the 2000 pickup the same, I'm inclined to think it may be something to do with the position of the magnetic field?
Now, I was reading an old thread today about finding the sweet spot using the note decay/bloom. I'm wondering, do these setting coincide, ie. if they're both in that sweet spot by that method, will one also get the phasey middle sound?
 

Bulwark

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I've a pair of Yamaha SGs that I played in the 80s, a 1000 and a 2000. I read a post, either in this thread or another, that this needs a hotter bridge pickup, however, I can get this on the 1000. I haven't managed it on the 2000, but I haven't put the time in.
Anyway, thing is, these guitars, despite being two years apart, have identical pickups, except for magnet charge. Both have low wind bridge pickups,, 7.0k, and 7.5k neck pickups. Both use A5 magnets, but they're higher charge in the 2000, though, I forget the numbers, they're all higher than where a PAF would be charged.
I stumbled on it quite by chance a couple of years ago. It seems to be a very narrow window of adjustment and considering I took measurements and set the 2000 pickup the same, I'm inclined to think it may be something to do with the position of the magnetic field?
Now, I was reading an old thread today about finding the sweet spot using the note decay/bloom. I'm wondering, do these setting coincide, ie. if they're both in that sweet spot by that method, will one also get the phasey middle sound?

Having recently discovered a great deal about this topic, it’s still new and exciting to me and therefore I LOVE to share what I’ve discovered.

A couple things:
  • You mentioned pickups being identical except “charge,” and noted some DC resistances. “Charge” typically refers to magnetic field strength, which is a function of how intensely the AlNiCo bars were zapped to have a magnetic field induced upon them. Magnetic field “strength” (to use a colloquial term and not get too propeller-hat nerd about it) is measured in Henrys, typically an upper-case ‘H’, and for PAFs tend to range between 3.2 H and 4.6 H. You’re absolutely right that the charge (strength, shape, all of it) is vitally important and plays a large part in where the “sweet spot” is, and in my personal opinion, it doesn’t get talked about nearly enough (compared to the next bullet point).
  • The DC resistance is what’s measured in Ohms, typically ranging from 6k to 8k ohms in PAFs, which is a funny thing to measure (the propensity of the wire to resist electrical current in DC, when the signal is the result of physical oscillation perturbing a magnetic field, which generates a piss-ant tiny AC signal), but is the most practical way to kinda/sorta aim at how much signal-carrying meat is wrapped around the poles and slugs (and therefore a large factor in how “hot” a pickup is, and a little about its character).

On the topic of how to height adjust, there are a couple FABULOUS threads here on The Les Paul Forum that discuss both pickup height and screw pole piece height adjustment in great detail (from your description above it sounds like you’ve read the first one, am I right?):
https://www.lespaulforum.com/forum/...kups-The-quot-Sweet-Spot-quot-with-Soundclips

https://www.lespaulforum.com/forum/...-quot-The-Pickup-Adjustment-Thread-quot/page4

What I’ve found personally when it comes to that sweet spot:
  • Humbucker are definitely more persnickety about where that spot is. Quarter turn and you can lose it. Others with long, deep P90 experience can attest, they’re not nearly as hard to find.
  • Where that spot is tends to be damn near incalculable based on the usual metrics related to PAF performance (or humbucking pickups in general, whether PAF or not). You just gotta do the adjustment process and find it. It’s like the pickup chooses, you don’t.
  • Since the pickup chooses, but output level is a function of distance from string, you’re kinda stuck between choosing to optimize tone, color, dynamics, or forcing an output level of your choice and potentially giving up a lot of character. How much do you stand to lose? Depends on the set, the change amount, everything.

If a front vs. back height differential (or ratio) results in the tone you’re looking for, and the pickups’ “sweet spots” determines their ideal height, you may find yourself choosing between the former and the latter if they don’t land in the lucky spot to sound they way you want in the middle.

Hope this helps!
 

PaulD

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Magnetic field “strength” (to use a colloquial term and not get too propeller-hat nerd about it) is measured in Henrys, typically an upper-case ‘H’

This is incorrect, the Henry is a measure of electrical inductance and is nothing to do with magnetic field strength. The H-Field of a magnet is measured in amperes per metre (A/m) in SI units or oersteds (Oe) in cgs units.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_field#The_H-field
 

somebodyelseuk

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This is incorrect, the Henry is a measure of electrical inductance and is nothing to do with magnetic field strength. The H-Field of a magnet is measured in amperes per metre (A/m) in SI units or oersteds (Oe) in cgs units.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_field#The_H-field
Yeah, I was thinking the same. Nevertheless, an interesting read.

Regarding DC readings... completely agree. Same reading different wire. That said, the guys making PAF repros tend to special order 'vintage tolerance' wire - wider than off the shelf wire. The Yamaha pups were mass produced, clearly to spec., using off the shelf Japanese parts, probably specced more by maths, than ear. Also, todays wire is made from recycled copper, which probably wasn't the case in the 80s, though there's probably an argument that recycled would have less impurities, since they would have been reduced first time round... it's probably irrelevant either way.

Thanks for the comprehensive reply - I feel it deserves a new thread, but I can't think of a reason to start one.
Cheers

PS. Yes, it was the first thread I was reading.
 
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Classicplayer

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Feb 6, 2002
Messages
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If a front vs. back height differential (or ratio) results in the tone you’re looking for, and the pickups’ “sweet spots” determines their ideal height, you may find yourself choosing between the former and the latter if they don’t land in the lucky spot to sound they way you want in the middle.

Hope this helps!

I ran into this last week adjusting my Burstbuckers I & II for a really good middle position tone. I had initially tweaked neck and bridge for their “sweet spot” and balance in volume 1st through 6th strings. I found that my middle position was not my desired chirp going on and adjusting pup volumes helped somewhat, but to get “the middle TONE” I had to adjust each pickup again. A pleasant surprise awaited me when I realized I had not knocked neck and bridge (played alone) out of their individual sweet spots. So, as you wrote, the sweet spots are not that narrow a band that they are easily lost. It does take a couple of cups of coffee, listening closely, and most of all, patience.


Classicplayer
 

mrbeasty

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I ran into this last week adjusting my Burstbuckers I & II for a really good middle position tone. I had initially tweaked neck and bridge for their “sweet spot” and balance in volume 1st through 6th strings. I found that my middle position was not my desired chirp going on and adjusting pup volumes helped somewhat, but to get “the middle TONE” I had to adjust each pickup again. A pleasant surprise awaited me when I realized I had not knocked neck and bridge (played alone) out of their individual sweet spots. So, as you wrote, the sweet spots are not that narrow a band that they are easily lost. It does take a couple of cups of coffee, listening closely, and most of all, patience.


Classicplayer

Amen!! ... and the cool thing is you can do it with virtually all sets of PAFs. Of course some do it better than others, but you do not need a special set of “Jimmy Page secret formula” pickups.

You need pickups of roughly the same sound (frequency, resonance, etc.) and output strength so they can cancel out. IMHO that is the only secret. I tried with a SD Custom5 and a PAF and they can’t do it. They are too different, the frequencies mismatch, the output is different so one overwhelms the other, etc. ...

I find that a slightly weaker neck pickup (or stronger bridge) helps a little as you don’t have to lower the neck as much (or raise the bridge) to match their output. However this is slight, I done this with a set of 8.3K & 8.2K Whiskerbucker PAFs and it worked fine although the neck pickup is, maybe, a tad low.

I also find that the pole screws can help a bit in fine-tuning each string. I like to start with the pole screw very low, so the core phasing comes from all four bobbins, then raise the pole screws on the side I want to dominate (neck or bridge) on each string. On some of my guitars the honky-ness around the 9th-12th fret is more pronounced on certain strings. That is where the screws are useful, although not a silver bullet.
 
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Classicplayer

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Amen!! ... and the cool thing is you can do it with virtually all sets of PAFs. Of course some do it better than others, but you do not need a special set of “Jimmy Page secret formula” pickups.

You need pickups of roughly the same sound (frequency, resonance, etc.) and output strength so they can cancel out. IMHO that is the only secret. I tried with a SD Custom5 and a PAF and they can’t do it. They are too different, the frequencies mismatch, the output is different so one overwhelms the other, etc. ...

I find that a slightly weaker neck pickup (or stronger bridge) helps a little as you don’t have to lower the neck as much (or raise the bridge) to match their output. However this is slight, I done this with a set of 8.3K & 8.2K Whiskerbucker PAFs and it worked fine although the neck pickup is, maybe, a tad low.

I also find that the pole screws can help a bit in fine-tuning each string. I like to start with the pole screw very low, so the core phasing comes from all four bobbins, then raise the pole screws on the side I want to dominate (neck or bridge) on each string. On some of my guitars the honky-ness around the 9th-12th fret is more pronounced on certain strings. That is where the screws are useful, although not a silver bullet.

I have to say that on both my Les Pauls (one has Seth’s 7.2k and 8.2k and the other BBuckers 1 & 2), Imused my little Micro Cube. My ma8n tube amp is an Orange Dark Terror, so perhaps both guitars might need slight adjustments to the pup heights, but only tiny. I've been struggling with the concept for months and my trusty screwdriver and ears are all I need. Oh! Some patience, too. Once there I notice I have a number of tones available just using guitar controls. Looking back, I'd say it was easier, once I understood the concept and learned the limitations and strengths of each individual pup.


Classicplayer
 

mrbeasty

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Yeah, I was thinking the same. Nevertheless, an interesting read.

Regarding DC readings... completely agree. Same reading different wire. That said, the guys making PAF repros tend to special order 'vintage tolerance' wire - wider than off the shelf wire. The Yamaha pups were mass produced, clearly to spec., using off the shelf Japanese parts, probably specced more by maths, than ear. Also, todays wire is made from recycled copper, which probably wasn't the case in the 80s, though there's probably an argument that recycled would have less impurities, since they would have been reduced first time round... it's probably irrelevant either way.

Thanks for the comprehensive reply - I feel it deserves a new thread, but I can't think of a reason to start one.
Cheers

PS. Yes, it was the first thread I was reading.

I do not think we are dealing with anything electromagnetic in this case. It is a simple phase correlation scenario caused by two separate transducers on a single sound source. This made more effective by the fact the transducers are identical (same frequency response, resonance, etc.). The only thing that has to be matched is their output level so phasing is at the highest. Assuming the two PAFs are the same, the neck pickup gets a stronger signal from the string at it location and therefore needs to be set lower to compensate.

I believe that is the whole tale. Now, variations in pickups do exist, and there is window where all this happens more effectively: pole screw adjustments, cover vs. no cover, slight mismatch vs big mismatch, etc.

All the same is true for two microphones on a single speaker ...
 
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