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I can't hear a difference. Have Gibson nailed it?

renderit

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Jan 19, 2009
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10,951
Just really interesting a comparison can be made off a Youtube posted video played with a computer if it's like mine , My computer has crap sound, amazing what people will say when their Hog is getting cut !

Agreed.

Even with great studio speakers judging from the TUUUUBE is like me taking out my hearing aids and playing any amp on 1.

Give me 50 watts of tube IN MY FACE and I'll tell you what I like.

Now pardon me.

I have some neighbors who need some edumacation...

 

jimmi

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Oct 8, 2012
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2,077
I have owned every era Les Paul. I currently own or have owned vintage era 50s/60s LP, Norlins, 80s attempts at re-issues, modern historics. I have played a bunch more. On average qualities from about 65 and earlier is different different than post 65-early 90s and modern historics. They are different guitars. Some differences are small some aren’t depending on what you are looking for. Better depends on what the player’s ears. Newer historics, even with vintage pickups and pots,are a little more dull sounding when compared to real vintage LPs ON AVERAGE to my ear. I drop down a gauge in string with newer ones to partially bring some of it back.

The differences are mainly appreciated with cleaner tones or rolled of volume me settings. If you are the player who only uses the bridge pickup with a preamp volume dimed then I doubt you will hear a difference.

I can hear the difference between the two on the video especially the first segment but the differences are something I listen for because it is a sound I like.
 

GuitarMikey

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Mar 1, 2013
Messages
910
There's clearly a difference at the beginning because of the toggle positions on each guitar. Not so much at the end of the video though. I have some great speakers and the historic is very close.
Cool video! :salude
 

korus

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Jan 18, 2003
Messages
636
Korus . - Don't hold back your true feelings.

You have heard of Custom Shop Historic Specs to include metal and plastics?

I agree with you in that when looking for a LP, see what it sounds like to include volume and amplitude without plugging her in. If it carries well then, carries bette plugged in./


This unplugged tone. Whenever modern made one is ALTERED so it sounds like this unplugged, it will sound EXACTLY like it is original when amplified (tube amp), whichever the PAF like pickups in it and whichever the tube amp is. Evrything else is kindergarten children playing house.

There is no factory stock post-1968 Les Pal guitar that sounds like this unplugged. They all sound pretty much like banjo compared to this. No electric signal manipulation can compensate for wrong primary acoustic tone. Ignorance part of the 'problem'.

The thread title's part 'can't hear a difference' is what has been the issue for 50+ years - difference is huge for some and some can't hear it. Insufficient hearing abillity part of the 'problem'.

That's all.
 
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JoeC

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Oct 25, 2019
Messages
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This unplugged tone. Whenever modern made one is ALTERED so it sounds like this unplugged, it will sound EXACTLY like it is original when amplified (tube amp), whichever the PAF like pickups in it and whichever the tube amp is. Evrything else is kindergarten children playing house.

There is no factory stock post-1968 Les Pal guitar that sounds like this unplugged. They all sound pretty much like banjo compared to this. No electric signal manipulation can compensate for wrong primary acoustic tone. Ignorance part of the 'problem'.

The thread title's part 'can't hear a difference' is what has been the issue for 50+ years - difference is huge for some and some can't hear it. Insufficient hearing abillity part of the 'problem'.

That's all.

Korus, that is awesome. I led a discusion not too long ago where I suggested the Brazilian Fret Board, on the 2018 made a world of difference on tone and sustain. I do not know or have experienced what you have when it comes to these guitars. I also cannot say by 2018 59" Brazilian sounds like that but I do think Gibson is getting closer and closer. I also feel real aging cannot be underestimated and to the + affects it has to the instrument over time.
 

El Gringo

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Apr 8, 2015
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5,657
If you can't hear a difference when you are playing them yourself side by side through the same amp, consider yourself blessed. Life would be a lot easier...and cheaper!:jim

Good one CD . Myself , I am happy with some ThroBak MXV-SLE-101 Plus into my many historic Les Paul's ,but if I had the cash I wouldn't be able to help myself and would hunt a 58 or a 59 burst down in a heartbeat . Just surprised at your comment that you should consider your self Blessed . Good one !
 

goldtop0

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Aug 19, 2003
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8,931
I also feel real aging cannot be underestimated and to the + affects it has to the instrument over time.

Yes, I'm thinking those ones from '13 onwards that have no truss rod condom.
Admittedly the exact same materials of manufacture were not used as back in the '50s........but we live in hope of maturation over the decades.
 

c_wester

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May 9, 2002
Messages
2,116
I dont need any special burst speakers to hear the difference.
The Vintage one is clearer in the sound.
 

AA00475Bassman

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Apr 26, 2016
Messages
3,769
When they A & B brakes they use a mechanical apparatus for equal pressure.
I do hear the burst advantage when SOME play A&B woks for Pepsi .

Owning a pair of side cutters does not make you a electrician .
 

marshall1987

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Jan 30, 2005
Messages
3,278
There is much more to the guitar playing experience than simply registering the quality of the sound that you hear. Given enough time, practice, and instruction, an accomplished guitar player may bond with, and "become one with", his/her prized instrument.

In many instances, prized vintage instruments constructed from high quality tone woods, and built in low quantities by skilled luthiers, are capable of delivering an exquisite and sublime experience for the player, that just isn't possible with newer mass produced instruments. :dude:
 

JPP-1

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Jul 11, 2006
Messages
1,336
There’s a clear difference in tone. In that video the Original 1958 sounds brighter and more open.

I frankly found the tone of that particular historic in thr video somewhat muddled, lacking a bit of definition and snap. However, ive played a room full of historics and some clearly sound more open and vibrant than others.

I think that particular historic could probably be improved with some synergistic Rewinds or OX4s and grovers.

Bottom line, no two guitars, historics or vintage sound the same. And in that video, between those particular guitars, the vintage 1958 was the winner.



 

surfreak

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May 6, 2002
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1,115
I have a limited experience of actually spending quality time with a handful of real bursts through great tube amps, and in my experience, the best Historics I have owned or played are basically as good as an average vintage Burst.

But the best vintage burst I have played, which is considered by most people who have played it as an exceptionally good burst, was no match for the best Historic.

My ignorance is bliss indeed, as it does lead me to conclude that not all bursts are better than some historics, and that there is no finer solid body than a great burst.
 

Big Al

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Apr 24, 2002
Messages
14,537
I have guitars that sound like the unplugged Burst, so don't tell me it can't be. I have found some that are indistinguishable when directly compared.

If one spends the time and finds a great guitar, instead of focusing on top figure or cosmetics, you'll have a great guitar.

Show me where all 57-60 paf Les Pauls sound the same. Hell, show me where all 59s do. I've been lucky through the years to have played many Bursts, side by side, and owned two. They do not sound the same. Many sound quite different, and no two random guitars, of any vintage sound the same.

Braz boards make no difference. Hardware bullshit claims started from overseas parts pirates haven't proven true. I've collect vintage hardware for 45 years for restorations. There is no magic tone.

I personally find these claims insulting, especially those hinting that I am unable to hear or descern the finer aspects of vintage tone. What I do know is most hear what they want to hear, or expect to.
 
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JPP-1

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The first video did a good job illustrating that a particular 1958 Les Paul sounded more open and articulate then a particular 2019 R7.

The acoustic tone demonstrated in this video is middling at best. To stand on it making grandiose proclamations like it’s some acoustic tone on high would indicate to me you need to get your hands on some better sounding Les Pauls. I’ve heard vintage, boutique and historic Les Pauls that sound more vibrant and resonant played acoustically then the one in the video even when recorded with a smart phone.



This unplugged tone. Whenever modern made one is ALTERED so it sounds like this unplugged, it will sound EXACTLY like it is original when amplified (tube amp), whichever the PAF like pickups in it and whichever the tube amp is. Evrything else is kindergarten children playing house.

There is no factory stock post-1968 Les Pal guitar that sounds like this unplugged. They all sound pretty much like banjo compared to this. No electric signal manipulation can compensate for wrong primary acoustic tone. Ignorance part of the 'problem'.

The thread title's part 'can't hear a difference' is what has been the issue for 50+ years - difference is huge for some and some can't hear it. Insufficient hearing abillity part of the 'problem'.

That's all.
 
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El Gringo

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Apr 8, 2015
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5,657

This unplugged tone. Whenever modern made one is ALTERED so it sounds like this unplugged, it will sound EXACTLY like it is original when amplified (tube amp), whichever the PAF like pickups in it and whichever the tube amp is. Evrything else is kindergarten children playing house.

There is no factory stock post-1968 Les Pal guitar that sounds like this unplugged. They all sound pretty much like banjo compared to this. No electric signal manipulation can compensate for wrong primary acoustic tone. Ignorance part of the 'problem'.

The thread title's part 'can't hear a difference' is what has been the issue for 50+ years - difference is huge for some and some can't hear it. Insufficient hearing abillity part of the 'problem'.

That's all.

It is extremely difficult for me to hear and judge a Burst unplugged through a video . Maybe in person thru my own hands I would be able to feel some of the woods natural resonance . For me to truly judge a Burst of this caliber it would have to be played thru a amp .
 

c_wester

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May 9, 2002
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2,116
Here I can hear a tiny difference but I cannot say the reissue sounds worse or lack anything.



 

Sol

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Oct 26, 2001
Messages
775
Once they switched between guitars on the bridge pickup it was as close as makes no difference on my expensive " ear goggles' , but a guitar in the hand is worth two in the stitch in the bush...of time..dah,.ynow know what I'm trying to s .. No ?...
okay

I'll get my coat
 

korus

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Jan 18, 2003
Messages
636
It is extremely difficult for me to hear and judge a Burst unplugged through a video . Maybe in person thru my own hands I would be able to feel some of the woods natural resonance . For me to truly judge a Burst of this caliber it would have to be played thru a amp .

No one can judge a Burst or any Les Paul unplugged in video. This is only a demo of a primary tone of an original Les Paul. It demonstrates why no LP sounds like a Burst. They do not have this primary tone.

Once Gibson CS or anyone makes nodern LP having this primary tone, then that LP will sound exactly like a Burst regardless of not having original PAFs. In the mean time we will have these funny 'adjusted' clips and incorrect claims aimed at selling modern made guitars.
 

JPP-1

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Jul 11, 2006
Messages
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Wow, you’re a full on coolaid drinker. Salute. Other than a mediocre recording of a good not great sounding Les Paul played acoustically, that you seem to think is the cat’s meow. What else you got? Any facts, objective data. Anything Other than grandiose proclamations, you want to come to NY and test out your thesis? I’ll see if I can get a couple of 50s gold tops and i already have a few historics that sound better than that acoustic burst clip you posted even when recorded with a smart phone.

Seriously, this could be a great project based on actual facts and objective data. let the chips fall where they may, ”Primary tone, adjusted clips”, lmfao Amazing the ability of people to let go a flurry of absolute nonsense and keep a straight face. You could work for CNN.

Btw, people judge tone by recordings: Jimmy’s tone, Duane’s tone, Pete’s Tone, Eric’s tone so saying recordings or clips are irrelevant is not only disingenuous it’s as proposterous as Itzak Pearlman playing his Stradivarius solely in the bathtub to truly hear that “primary” tone. I guess that’s why a modern violin beat the Stradivarius in an actual fact based objective test. Maybe had it been conductrd in Itzaks tub the Strad wouldve won.


No one can judge a Burst or any Les Paul unplugged in video. This is only a demo of a primary tone of an original Les Paul. It demonstrates why no LP sounds like a Burst. They do not have this primary tone.

Once Gibson CS or anyone makes nodern LP having this primary tone, then that LP will sound exactly like a Burst regardless of not having original PAFs. In the mean time we will have these funny 'adjusted' clips and incorrect claims aimed at selling modern made guitars.
 
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