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  1. #41
    Les Paul Forum Member AA00475Bassman's Avatar
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    Re: Mystery les paul possible 54 custom?

    The guitar does not warrant any effort, money time out the window , the guitar can be replaced for under a 1000.00 . Painted factory playing & making sound . Its not a Gibson its not even a high end early 80's MIJ !!!!!
    Ive never confused owning a bunch of high end gear with being some kind of a guitar player I'm a hack and I love guitars !

    The myth :The most disturbing thing about buying a fake Les Paul is how my research after the purchase is received by Forum members ??? 2020

    The Myth: Neat wiring layouts always equate to great-sounding amps.

    The Myth: If I would have lived with MOM & mooched till I was 48 I would play like Clapton !
    Think about it
    won't you ...... Please !

  2. #42

    Re: Mystery les paul possible 54 custom?

    I still want pictures of 53 and 54 lpcs being restored, refinished whatever. Show me stripped old customs.

  3. #43
    Les Paul Forum Co-Owner Tom Wittrock's Avatar
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    Re: Mystery les paul possible 54 custom?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tenzona View Post
    Very early body with some messy hand done mods
    Early compared to what?
    And again, who do you think made it?
    Pauls to the walls!

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  4. #44
    Les Paul Forum Co-Owner Tom Wittrock's Avatar
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    Re: Mystery les paul possible 54 custom?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tenzona View Post
    I still want pictures of 53 and 54 lpcs being restored, refinished whatever. Show me stripped old customs.
    There should be some here, in the archives. Have you tried a search?
    Pauls to the walls!

    Hüter der Flammen!

    PLEASE SUPPORT www.burstserial.com !!
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  5. #45

    Re: Mystery les paul possible 54 custom?

    Ok ok I was wrong about it being a 54 sorry. I think its a 53 now hahaha

  6. #46

    Re: Mystery les paul possible 54 custom?

    I have no idea as to the origins of the guitar in question, but it reminds me of the replica "Custom" that a friend brought back from somewhere in Asia in the mid-'70's. It had a Gibson headstock logo and all the "Black Beauty" appointments, but was just wrong overall. VERY lightweight, especially compared to the Les Pauls of the day! My friend, a US Marine, knew it was a fake but said he got it it cheap "from the PX" IIRC.
    Has anyone else here come across such a guitar?

  7. #47

    Re: Mystery les paul possible 54 custom?

    Yes Tom having trouble finding any!!! I saw a very early 53 that sold a few years ago and I saw a lot of familiar stuff on that guitar despite what looks wrong on mine just need pics of one stripped or being restored or something.

  8. #48

    Re: Mystery les paul possible 54 custom?

    I dont know where this came from beyond the NORCAL usa area. As for it being an asian copy, if anyone can produce a single photograph of an asian body built like this in old nitro finish I would love to see it. Ive had all the 70s copies none of them are like this at all.

    UOTE=LuteGuy;2848117]I have no idea as to the origins of the guitar in question, but it reminds me of the replica "Custom" that a friend brought back from somewhere in Asia in the mid-'70's. It had a Gibson headstock logo and all the "Black Beauty" appointments, but was just wrong overall. VERY lightweight, especially compared to the Les Pauls of the day! My friend, a US Marine, knew it was a fake but said he got it it cheap "from the PX" IIRC.
    Has anyone else here come across such a guitar?[/QUOTE]

  9. #49
    Forum Moderator T.Allen's Avatar
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    Re: Mystery les paul possible 54 custom?

    I honestly don't know what you are searching for. There is nothing from restoration photos that will point to your guitar being a Gibson. The only similarity is the species of wood. It is not a Gibson of any year.

  10. #50
    Les Paul Forum Co-Owner Tom Wittrock's Avatar
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    Re: Mystery les paul possible 54 custom?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tenzona View Post
    Yes Tom having trouble finding any!!! I saw a very early 53 that sold a few years ago and I saw a lot of familiar stuff on that guitar despite what looks wrong on mine just need pics of one stripped or being restored or something.
    Could you please post some photos of the front, and the back of the headstock?
    And also, the neck pickup cavity, showing clearly the neck tenon?
    Pauls to the walls!

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  11. #51

    Re: Mystery les paul possible 54 custom?

    I believe the neck is only partially relevant because it appears to be a reneck. The neck does not glow under UV only the body. It is very nice whatever it is. Notice in the cavity you can see the mahogany top. I have included a similar picture from a 53 and it is the only picture I can find showing the glued top on a 50s custom inside a pickup cavity, there is just so little visual evidence to clear it up (I am talking to Gibson and others about this)
    According to all info I have seen, only 50s customs and the 72 reissue have mahog tops until you get into later reissues. Most people I have talked to seem to think the back and top are a single piece of mahogany I believe this to be misinformation. Glued multi piece top similar to how they made goldtops is how Screenshot_20191210-192052_Gallery.jpgIMG_9914.jpgIMG_9915.jpgthey did it. If you have visual evidence otherwise I would love to see it because I cannot find any!


    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Wittrock View Post
    Could you please post some photos of the front, and the back of the headstock?
    And also, the neck pickup cavity, showing clearly the neck tenon?

  12. #52

    Re: Mystery les paul possible 54 custom?

    And here is the neck just for the hell of it. It has a volute and a deluxe looking fingerboard, 2 neck breaks and an incorrect holly veneer. I played it a bit and it feels great, very solid neck.





    Quote Originally Posted by Tenzona View Post
    I believe the neck is only partially relevant because it appears to be a reneck. The neck does not glow under UV only the body. It is very nice whatever it is. Notice in the cavity you can see the mahogany top. I have included a similar picture from a 53 and it is the only picture I can find showing the glued top on a 50s custom inside a pickup cavity, there is just so little visual evidence to clear it up (I am talking to Gibson and others about this)
    According to all info I have seen, only 50s customs and the 72 reissue have mahog tops until you get into later reissues. Most people I have talked to seem to think the back and top are a single piece of mahogany I believe this to be misinformation. Glued multi piece top similar to how they made goldtops is how Screenshot_20191210-192052_Gallery.jpgIMG_9914.jpgIMG_9915.jpgthey did it. If you have visual evidence otherwise I would love to see it because I cannot find any!
    Attached Images Attached Images

  13. #53

    Re: Mystery les paul possible 54 custom?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tenzona View Post
    And here is the neck just for the hell of it. It has a volute and a deluxe looking fingerboard, 2 neck breaks and an incorrect holly veneer. I played it a bit and it feels great, very solid neck.
    20191206_215244.jpg

  14. #54

    Re: Mystery les paul possible 54 custom?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tenzona View Post
    20191205_205043.jpg

  15. #55

    Re: Mystery les paul possible 54 custom?

    " Most people I have talked to seem to think the back and top are a single piece of mahogany I believe this to be misinformation. Glued multi piece top similar to how they made goldtops is how they did it."

    If Gibson Les Paul Custom made between '53 and '61 had glued on mahogany top instead of one piece bodies, in contrary to what "most people" believe, could you please explain why Gibson decided to make the wire channel, going from the control cavity to the switch cavity, in a different way: a round channel drilled from the side for the Custom and a square one, routed from the top of the mahogany back, before the maple top was glued on, for the Gold Top?

  16. #56
    Les Paul Forum Member sws1's Avatar
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    Re: Mystery les paul possible 54 custom?

    Those pickup cavities look like no Gibson-routed cavities I've ever seen.

  17. #57

    Re: Mystery les paul possible 54 custom?

    Very early body with some messy hand done mods. Yeah, early 80s.......just joking.

    The volute looks like it was glued on after the neck was made.
    "Look Sam, if you can make the other guy feel like a goon first, then you don't feel like so much of a goon." - Eddie Haskell

  18. #58

    Re: Mystery les paul possible 54 custom?

    Notch you are the 2nd person to say that, can you verify that gibson used to do this type of repair?

    As for the gold top route question check these pictures out.
    Its a lefty 54 with a "messy hand done channel" and also check out the control cavity. It looks like mine and also has a round drilled hole like a custom. As for WHY they changed it up I have no idea, just getting the job done at the factory maybe? Guitar is from southpawsanctuary.comScreenshot_20191210-193717_Brave.jpg

    Quote Originally Posted by notchback View Post
    Very early body with some messy hand done mods. Yeah, early 80s.......just joking.

    The volute looks like it was glued on after the neck was made.

  19. #59
    Les Paul Forum Co-Owner Tom Wittrock's Avatar
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    Re: Mystery les paul possible 54 custom?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tenzona View Post
    Most people I have talked to seem to think the back and top are a single piece of mahogany I believe this to be misinformation. Glued multi piece top similar to how they made goldtops is how they did it.
    Do you have any credible evidence to support this bizarre claim, which is completely contradictory to the multitude of experts who say otherwise?
    Pauls to the walls!

    Hüter der Flammen!

    PLEASE SUPPORT www.burstserial.com !!
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  20. #60
    Les Paul Forum Member MapleFlame's Avatar
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    Re: Mystery les paul possible 54 custom?

    Non Gibson "Period"
    Top carves are sexy

  21. #61

    Re: Mystery les paul possible 54 custom?

    I have been speaking with Gibson directly for 2 days here is the latest :

    "Thanks for the reply. Unfortunately, we wouldn’t be able to authenticate this as a Gibson product due to the modifications. The 50’s Les Paul Custom model indeed had a mahogany top on top of a mahogany body."

    I am still waiting for pictures of a 50s LPC with the top visible, from anyone anywhere who can find one. Add to that a picture of an ALL MAHOGANY LES PAUL CUSTOM MADE FROM 1 PIECE, find and show me proof of this. I have not seen one picture of one, nor have I seen one in real life, and Gibson DIRECTLY answered my question right from the source.
    This is not over!







    Quote Originally Posted by MapleFlame View Post
    Non Gibson "Period"

  22. #62

    Re: Mystery les paul possible 54 custom?

    Here's a link to a picture of a 1957 Standard with (what appears to be) a 1-piece mahogany top.

    https://www.abalonevintage.com/1957_...am_plastic.JPG

  23. #63

    Re: Mystery les paul possible 54 custom?

    I did see that one, nice looking axe wonder what the backstory is


    Quote Originally Posted by brandtkronholm View Post
    Here's a link to a picture of a 1957 Standard with (what appears to be) a 1-piece mahogany top.

    https://www.abalonevintage.com/1957_...am_plastic.JPG

  24. #64
    Forum Moderator T.Allen's Avatar
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    Re: Mystery les paul possible 54 custom?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tenzona View Post
    I have been speaking with Gibson directly for 2 days here is the latest :

    "Thanks for the reply. Unfortunately, we wouldn’t be able to authenticate this as a Gibson product due to the modifications. The 50’s Les Paul Custom model indeed had a mahogany top on top of a mahogany body."

    I am still waiting for pictures of a 50s LPC with the top visible, from anyone anywhere who can find one. Add to that a picture of an ALL MAHOGANY LES PAUL CUSTOM MADE FROM 1 PIECE, find and show me proof of this. I have not seen one picture of one, nor have I seen one in real life, and Gibson DIRECTLY answered my question right from the source.
    This is not over!



    It is completely irrelevant whether or not your guitar is constructed like a 50's LPC. That body did not come out of the factory in Kalamazoo. Nor did it come out of any other Gibson factory. Billy Bob built it in his basement. It is about as over as it can get.

  25. #65
    Les Paul Forum Member darkwave's Avatar
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    Re: Mystery les paul possible 54 custom?

    You seem to be missing the point that there are recognized experts here mixed in with uninformed opinions. The people who know state that the original c
    Customs were a single piece of mahogany and I've seen enough info over the years to take that as the truth.

    With Gibson, there are always exceptions (such as the occasional all-mahogany Standard) but they are just that - exceptions to the rule. I don't necessarily take the modern company's (customer support?) statement as fact in this case - they also are on record raving about the "New York Mini Humbuckers" used on classic Epiphones. Those are two very different pickups that only bear a passing resemblance.

    -Douglas C.



    Quote Originally Posted by Tenzona View Post
    I have been speaking with Gibson directly for 2 days here is the latest :

    "Thanks for the reply. Unfortunately, we wouldn’t be able to authenticate this as a Gibson product due to the modifications. The 50’s Les Paul Custom model indeed had a mahogany top on top of a mahogany body."

    I am still waiting for pictures of a 50s LPC with the top visible, from anyone anywhere who can find one. Add to that a picture of an ALL MAHOGANY LES PAUL CUSTOM MADE FROM 1 PIECE, find and show me proof of this. I have not seen one picture of one, nor have I seen one in real life, and Gibson DIRECTLY answered my question right from the source.
    This is not over!




  26. #66

    Re: Mystery les paul possible 54 custom?

    WHERES THE PROOF BEYOND WHAT YOU GUYS FEEL LIKE? SHOW ME A PICTURE SHOW ME AN ARTICLE SHOW ME ANYTHING THAT SAYS GIBSON USES 1 PIECE BODIES FOR CUSTOMS, STILL WAITING!

    Quote Originally Posted by darkwave View Post
    You seem to be missing the point that there are recognized experts here mixed in with uninformed opinions. The people who know state that the original c
    Customs were a single piece of mahogany and I've seen enough info over the years to take that as the truth.

    With Gibson, there are always exceptions (such as the occasional all-mahogany Standard) but they are just that - exceptions to the rule. I don't necessarily take the modern company's (customer support?) statement as fact in this case - they also are on record raving about the "New York Mini Humbuckers" used on classic Epiphones. Those are two very different pickups that only bear a passing resemblance.

    -Douglas C.

  27. #67
    Les Paul Forum Member darkwave's Avatar
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    Re: Mystery les paul possible 54 custom?

    Sorry - but there's plenty published and direct experience out there that you seem to be ignoring in favor of the scenario that you "feel" makes sense. Some of those with direct experience have posted in this thread. No reason for Gibson to drill the round channel in Customs if they were made the same as Standards in the 50's. They did fake it later with some reissues, but only because it was a detail that nerds like us looked for.

    Not crapping on your purchase - it may be a fine instrument, but you asked for insight then ignored it.

    - Douglas C.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tenzona View Post
    WHERES THE PROOF BEYOND WHAT YOU GUYS FEEL LIKE? SHOW ME A PICTURE SHOW ME AN ARTICLE SHOW ME ANYTHING THAT SAYS GIBSON USES 1 PIECE BODIES FOR CUSTOMS, STILL WAITING!

    QUOTE=darkwave;2848265]You seem to be missing the point that there are recognized experts here mixed in with uninformed opinions. The people who know state that the original c
    Customs were a single piece of mahogany and I've seen enough info over the years to take that as the truth.

    With Gibson, there are always exceptions (such as the occasional all-mahogany Standard) but they are just that - exceptions to the rule. I don't necessarily take the modern company's (customer support?) statement as fact in this case - they also are on record raving about the "New York Mini Humbuckers" used on classic Epiphones. Those are two very different pickups that only bear a passing resemblance.

    -Douglas C.
    [/QUOTE]

  28. #68
    Forum Moderator T.Allen's Avatar
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    Re: Mystery les paul possible 54 custom?

    When authenticating what looks like an original 50's Gibson, you will typically try to find one thing wrong with it and go from there.

    You are trying to find one thing right with that guitar. It is not a Gibson.

  29. #69
    Les Paul Forum Co-Owner Tom Wittrock's Avatar
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    Re: Mystery les paul possible 54 custom?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tenzona View Post
    WHERES THE PROOF BEYOND WHAT YOU GUYS FEEL LIKE? SHOW ME A PICTURE SHOW ME AN ARTICLE SHOW ME ANYTHING THAT SAYS GIBSON USES 1 PIECE BODIES FOR CUSTOMS, STILL WAITING!
    DUDE! Chill out. Your attitude is totally unwarranted and unnecessary.
    Nobody here is REQUIRED to prove anything to you, or anyone else.
    If you think that those of us, who during the last 3-5 decades have held these in our hands, are dead wrong with what we have owned, held, observed, etc, who cares.
    If YOU want this "evidence", just look it up. It's in numerous sources and photos are out there. Probably many right here.
    Read the more authoritative, expert books on the subject. Robb Lawrence's book is a great start [amongst many].

    Pauls to the walls!

    Hüter der Flammen!

    PLEASE SUPPORT www.burstserial.com !!
    Click here: www.burstserial.com

  30. #70

    Re: Mystery les paul possible 54 custom?

    Ok!

    Quote Originally Posted by T.Allen View Post
    When authenticating what looks like an original 50's Gibson, you will typically try to find one thing wrong with it and go from there.

    You are trying to find one thing right with that guitar. It is not a Gibson.

  31. #71
    Les Paul Forum Member Big Al's Avatar
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    Re: Mystery les paul possible 54 custom?

    NOT A GIBSON

    A smell I easily detected.
    The older I get, the better I was.

  32. #72
    Les Paul Forum Member style0's Avatar
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    Re: Mystery les paul possible 54 custom?

    Fretboard radius is way too curved to be a Gibson.
    Old Wood Is Good!

  33. #73
    Les Paul Forum Member Rev.WillieVK's Avatar
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    Re: Mystery les paul possible 54 custom?

    All right, enough already.

    Tenzona - please look up the terms 'tenon' and 'mortise' and how they apply to GIBSON Les Paul guitar necks.

    1953 Les Paul Goldtop - see the tenon inside the mortise in neck pickup cavity?


    1954 Les Paul Goldtop - see the tenon inside the mortise in neck pickup cavity?


    1956 Les Paul Custom - see the tenon inside the mortise in neck pickup cavity" I know it hard to see under the black paint.


    1958 Les Paul Goldtop - see the correct humbucking pickup route with the sharp edges and the deeper sections for the pickup legs?
    This route has been used on every single-cutaway Gibson Les Paul 'Standard' or Custom made since 1957.


    SO
    1) your guitar has a neck mortise & tenon that was never used in any vintage single cutaway Gibson Les Paul 'Standard' or Custom made 1952-1969

    2) your guitar has humbucking pickup routes that were never used on ANY single cutaway Gibson Les Paul 'Standard' or Custom

    Your guitar may be cool, it may be great, it may be the best playing and best sounding Les Paul ever - but it is NOT A GIBSON.


  34. #74
    Les Paul Forum Member corpse's Avatar
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    Re: Mystery les paul possible 54 custom?

    ...and in 18 mos it will turn up for sale as "an early Gibson conversion".

  35. #75

    Re: Mystery les paul possible 54 custom?

    I wont be doing that and even if I did you have all the evidence you need to take me to BURST COURT!! (humidity must be kept low)


    Quote Originally Posted by corpse View Post
    ...and in 18 mos it will turn up for sale as "an early Gibson conversion".

  36. #76

    Re: Mystery les paul possible 54 custom?

    Alright enough already yourself! I theorized that it was renecked with a transitional tenon and hogged out badly by hand, NOT SAYING THAT WAS GIBSONS DOING. I have had lots of big name shops say it was a norlin, which I dont believe. I should have signed up on the other forum!


    QUOTE=Rev.WillieVK;2848312]All right, enough already.
    Tenzona - please look up the terms 'tenon' and 'mortise' and how they apply to GIBSON Les Paul guitar necks.

    1953 Les Paul Goldtop - see the tenon inside the mortise in neck pickup cavity?


    1954 Les Paul Goldtop - see the tenon inside the mortise in neck pickup cavity?


    1956 Les Paul Custom - see the tenon inside the mortise in neck pickup cavity" I know it hard to see under the black paint.


    1958 Les Paul Goldtop - see the correct humbucking pickup route with the sharp edges and the deeper sections for the pickup legs?
    This route has been used on every single-cutaway Gibson Les Paul 'Standard' or Custom made since 1957.


    SO
    1) your guitar has a neck mortise & tenon that was never used in any vintage single cutaway Gibson Les Paul 'Standard' or Custom made 1952-1969

    2) your guitar has humbucking pickup routes that were never used on ANY single cutaway Gibson Les Paul 'Standard' or Custom

    Your guitar may be cool, it may be great, it may be the best playing and best sounding Les Paul ever - but it is NOT A GIBSON.

    [/QUOTE]

  37. #77
    Les Paul Forum Member Rev.WillieVK's Avatar
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    Re: Mystery les paul possible 54 custom?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tenzona View Post
    Alright enough already yourself! I theorized that it was renecked with a transitional tenon and hogged out badly by hand, NOT SAYING THAT WAS GIBSONS DOING. I have had lots of big name shops say it was a norlin, which I dont believe. I should have signed up on the other forum!
    With no original Gibson factory neck mortise, drill hole or not, this was never a vintage 1953-1961 Gibson Les Paul Custom.



    See you at the other forum!
    Last edited by Rev.WillieVK; 12-13-19 at 12:31 PM.

  38. #78
    Les Paul Forum Member hogy's Avatar
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    Re: Mystery les paul possible 54 custom?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tenzona View Post
    I should have signed up on the other forum!
    This is the first reasonable statement you've made in this thread. You should follow your instincts.

  39. #79
    Les Paul Forum Member Big Al's Avatar
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    Re: Mystery les paul possible 54 custom?

    None of the cavities are correct, vintage or norlin. It seems you just want conformation of your pretense and nothing but. I too will be watching for the future "early 50's conversion". I don't doubt it, or it's being trolled, fishing for an "as is" bite. Something that occurs here often enough.

    if not

    Fix it up, make a player out of it. Be a cool project and I'd follow the job with interest. Wouldn't care to see it logo'd Gibson, though.
    The older I get, the better I was.

  40. #80

    Re: Mystery les paul possible 54 custom?

    I will be fixing it up and showing here, I have your issue of rolling stone btw!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Al View Post
    None of the cavities are correct, vintage or norlin. It seems you just want conformation of your pretense and nothing but. I too will be watching for the future "early 50's conversion". I don't doubt it, or it's being trolled, fishing for an "as is" bite. Something that occurs here often enough.

    if not

    Fix it up, make a player out of it. Be a cool project and I'd follow the job with interest. Wouldn't care to see it logo'd Gibson, though.

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