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  1. #41
    Les Paul Forum Member
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    Re: NAMM 2020 & Historics For 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Gold Tone View Post
    My 2019 ‘64 SG has the same corrected crown inlay at headstock
    Oh I know, I have one as well. I should have worded it, they corrected the crown inlay for the ES335 line. My apologies.

  2. #42
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    Re: NAMM 2020 & Historics For 2020

    I think I’m going to have to pick a ‘64 ES-335 RI. I have a ‘59 in sunburst, but I’m so tempted by the 64.

  3. #43
    Les Paul Forum Member Gold Tone's Avatar
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    Re: NAMM 2020 & Historics For 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Legit View Post
    Oh I know, I have one as well. I should have worded it, they corrected the crown inlay for the ES335 line. My apologies.
    You were clear, it was me who wasn’t reading well what you had written. Friend apologies are mine

  4. #44
    Les Paul Forum Member vintage58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Legit View Post
    Did I mention they fixed the logo on the ES335's as well, especially the crown?
    No, but I did — a week ago, actually (see my below-linked thread about the crown inlay, from the "The Other Gibsons" section of the Forum). Despite over a hundred views, however, no one seems to care about this change... or, for that matter, to even have noticed it. And yet, it's huge (in my opinion, at least). Gibson has had that seemingly simple visual detail glaringly wrong for decades.

    Here's the thread I'm referring to:

    headstock crown inlay on 2020 ES-335 Custom Shop reissues
    "And it seems to me perfectly in the cards that there will be, within the next generation or so, a pharmacological method of making
    people love their servitude, and producing . . . a kind of painless concentration camp for entire societies, so that people will in fact
    have their liberties taken away from them but will rather enjoy it, because they will be distracted from any desire to rebel by propa-
    ganda or brainwashing, or brainwashing enhanced by pharmacological methods." Aldous Huxley, 1961

  5. #45
    Les Paul Forum Member BurstFan's Avatar
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    Re: NAMM 2020 & Historics For 2020

    I can only shake my head in disbelief

  6. #46
    Les Paul Forum Member Cliff Gress's Avatar
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    Re: NAMM 2020 & Historics For 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by vintage58 View Post
    No, but I did — a week ago, actually (see my below-linked thread about the crown inlay, from the "The Other Gibsons" section of the Forum). Despite over a hundred views, however, no one seems to care about this change... or, for that matter, to even have noticed it. And yet, it's huge (in my opinion, at least). Gibson has had that seemingly simple visual detail glaringly wrong for decades.

    Here's the thread I'm referring to:

    headstock crown inlay on 2020 ES-335 Custom Shop reissues
    I was in the not noticed category. Today I looked my 2012 USA 335 and my crown inlay is quite different. That detail just slipped on by.

  7. #47
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    Re: NAMM 2020 & Historics For 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by vintage58 View Post
    No, but I did — a week ago, actually (see my below-linked thread about the crown inlay, from the "The Other Gibsons" section of the Forum). Despite over a hundred views, however, no one seems to care about this change... or, for that matter, to even have noticed it. And yet, it's huge (in my opinion, at least). Gibson has had that seemingly simple visual detail glaringly wrong for decades.

    Here's the thread I'm referring to:

    headstock crown inlay on 2020 ES-335 Custom Shop reissues
    Oh shoot, well there it is and it is a sight to behold. I agree they are doing things I thought would never happen the crown included. The trouble is you have ask the right people at Gibson what exactly the changes are. They mention there are more, but in every YouTube video the interviewer is not asking the right questions so the Gibson guy just skips over them. I was told the Goldtops depending on the year also have the correct location on the headstock, but I am not too keen on following the progression of the Goldtop Historics.

    Quote Originally Posted by gio View Post
    I think I’m going to have to pick a ‘64 ES-335 RI. I have a ‘59 in sunburst, but I’m so tempted by the 64.
    The neck is similar to that of the '64 SG Reissue, and it that has easily become my second favorite neck of all time after the Historic Makeovers '59 shape. I am looking to get a 60th Anniversary Les Paul as well, but deciding between the different versions have been tough. I have held a couple vintage '64 ES335s, SGs, and such, and I would say the necks are extremely close to some of the specific real deal examples I have held especially the SG Specials. The V3 on the 60th 1960's is very blade like!

    I can't wait to see the new cases though, and I wonder what they will look like!

  8. #48
    Les Paul Forum Member J.D.'s Avatar
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    Re: NAMM 2020 & Historics For 2020

    It is not obvious to me what is changed with the crown inlay. Can someone illustrate?

  9. #49
    Les Paul Forum Member vintage58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.D. View Post
    It is not obvious to me what is changed with the crown inlay. Can someone illustrate?
    See the below comparison image. The left headstock (from a vintage 1959 ES-335) shows the earlier style of crown inlay that Gibson originally used on various ES-series models. Although its position on the headstock changed a bit as the 1960s progressed, the actual inlay itself stayed the same the whole time. Then, at some point within 1969, Gibson switched to the style of inlay shown on the right headstock (from a 1969 ES-335). Some 1969 ES-series guitars have the earlier style of inlay, and others have the later style... but *after* 1969, the style of inlay on the right is the only one that Gibson has been using on its ES-series semi-solid guitars. Anyway, for the entire time that Gibson ES-335 *reissues* have existed (from the initial early-1980s ones right up until 2019 — and this includes all the Historic Collection/Custom Shop ES-335 reissues, as well as the more recent Gibson Memphis reissues with the improved "ear" shape), Gibson has, for whatever reason, persisted in incorrectly using the 1969-and-onward crown inlay on the headstocks of those guitars — even if the model year being reissued was a pre-1969 model year. Anyway, "this" year (i.e., in 2020) Gibson would appear, going by the photos currently on their website, to have finally begun using the earlier (i.e., left) style of crown inlay on their 2020 reissues of 1959, 1961, and 1964 ES-335s.


    "And it seems to me perfectly in the cards that there will be, within the next generation or so, a pharmacological method of making
    people love their servitude, and producing . . . a kind of painless concentration camp for entire societies, so that people will in fact
    have their liberties taken away from them but will rather enjoy it, because they will be distracted from any desire to rebel by propa-
    ganda or brainwashing, or brainwashing enhanced by pharmacological methods." Aldous Huxley, 1961

  10. #50
    Les Paul Forum Member J.D.'s Avatar
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    Re: NAMM 2020 & Historics For 2020

    Subtle but interesting detail.

    I did a quick eBay + Reverb scan of the Gibson USA and Historic ES guitars for sale. Looks like the shape and positioning of the GUSA vs Historic is different. I believe the GUSA used fibre headstock veneer whereas the Historic didn't.

  11. #51
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    Re: NAMM 2020 & Historics For 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Legit View Post

    The neck is similar to that of the '64 SG Reissue, and it that has easily become my second favorite neck of all time after the Historic Makeovers '59 shape. I am looking to get a 60th Anniversary Les Paul as well, but deciding between the different versions have been tough. I have held a couple vintage '64 ES335s, SGs, and such, and I would say the necks are extremely close to some of the specific real deal examples I have held especially the SG Specials. The V3 on the 60th 1960's is very blade like!

    I can't wait to see the new cases though, and I wonder what they will look like!
    Is it fairly similar to a 59 neck?

  12. #52
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    Re: NAMM 2020 & Historics For 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by vintage58 View Post
    See the below comparison image. The left headstock (from a vintage 1959 ES-335) shows the earlier style of crown inlay that Gibson originally used on various ES-series models. Although its position on the headstock changed a bit as the 1960s progressed, the actual inlay itself stayed the same the whole time. Then, at some point within 1969, Gibson switched to the style of inlay shown on the right headstock (from a 1969 ES-335). Some 1969 ES-series guitars have the earlier style of inlay, and others have the later style... but *after* 1969, the style of inlay on the right is the only one that Gibson has been using on its ES-series semi-solid guitars. Anyway, for the entire time that Gibson ES-335 *reissues* have existed (from the initial early-1980s ones right up until 2019 — and this includes all the Historic Collection/Custom Shop ES-335 reissues, as well as the more recent Gibson Memphis reissues with the improved "ear" shape), Gibson has, for whatever reason, persisted in incorrectly using the 1969-and-onward crown inlay on the headstocks of those guitars — even if the model year being reissued was a pre-1969 model year. Anyway, "this" year (i.e., in 2020) Gibson would appear, going by the photos currently on their website, to have finally begun using the earlier (i.e., left) style of crown inlay on their 2020 reissues of 1959, 1961, and 1964 ES-335s.


    Finally, somebody gets it! We can thank the new people heading the R&D department for these upgrades!

    Quote Originally Posted by gio View Post
    Is it fairly similar to a 59 neck?
    Similar but not as thick? But about the same as the V2 necks on the 1960 60th Anniversary Les Pauls. I would put it in the middle of the ‘59 and ‘60 V2 size.

  13. #53

    Re: NAMM 2020 & Historics For 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Legit View Post
    No Les Paul Jr.'s I saw with the Historic line. They fixed the logo for everything and it looks incredible:

    Attachment 10905
    is the pelham blue SG standard a ‘64 RI ? ...I checked Gibson’s site and there is says available only in cherry

  14. #54
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    Re: NAMM 2020 & Historics For 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by garywright View Post
    is the pelham blue SG standard a ‘64 RI ? ...I checked Gibson’s site and there is says available only in cherry
    Those are all '64 SG's, and the colors you can do a M2M in. The fancy colors are there to show the color options of the M2M program. They auction the guitars off to dealers so perhaps in a couple months you might see one of the dealers that purchased it at NAMM selling it. I can't add anymore photos as the forum system says I reached my peak bandwidth.

  15. #55

    Re: NAMM 2020 & Historics For 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Legit View Post
    I can't add anymore photos as the forum system says I reached my peak bandwidth.
    Well, you’ve done your duty and done it well

  16. #56
    Les Paul Forum Member
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    Re: NAMM 2020 & Historics For 2020

    We can see the new cases, so what they told me is true. It looks there is a Lifton badge on the specific example's case below, and they are still double neck supported for the ES line. Interesting, some images I received from another dealer show that there is no Lifton badge. The Memphis ES line had the black with gold interior cases before, but they gold material was wrong. They are now putting more furry and correct padding. THIS EXAMPLE BELOW DOES HAVE THE LIFTON BADGE IN THE CASE.

    https://reverb.com/item/31807976-gib...erry-2020-0020
    Last edited by Mr. Legit; 01-31-20 at 04:30 PM.

  17. #57
    Les Paul Forum Member
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    Re: NAMM 2020 & Historics For 2020

    Did you notice on the 2020 Certificate there is no signature ?

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