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ES-330 and how to get a good tone :)

Konrad00711

Member
Joined
May 24, 2016
Messages
35
Hi guys,

I think I need some help in finding a good tone out of my ES-330. I really like this guitar in case of playability. It just feels right in my hands, mostly because of fat & rounded neck. I would also like to say I really like the tone, but I can't.

I'm mostly into '60, memphis style blues. I play on clean, sometimes with a dash of warmth. A lot of finger picking + pick.
Currently I use JC-40 (usually for late-at-night playing with headphones or on moderate volume level without headphones) and AmpTone Tweed Deluxe clone (it's slightly modified: "bad" bass cut off , negative feedback switch, vintage ECC82 tube from '80 in V1 position to provide cleaner tone at higher volume - outstanding tone when my strat is plugged in).

My problem is that the tone of my ES-330, no matter which amp is working, is mostly shrill and kind of hard hitting. Even if I dial down the treb/​tone knob on amps lower, the sound is still picky and stiff (I found out that having tone knob on guitar above 6 makes it unpleasent sounding). JC-40 can be ice picky, but I usually didn't have a problem to tame it and dial it properly while playing other guitars. I don't know how to fix this. Also the bass is very overwhelming all the time. If I dial it down on amp, it starts to become flubby, flat and quiet, if I dial it a bit higher, it explodes out.

I'd like to get clear sound, but not that harsh and stiff and nice, soft bass.

Eventually, I'm planning to get a blackface/silverface Fender amp for cleans, rather low wattage one like Princeton or Deluxe Reverb.

ES-330 players!!! Is there any magical trick to set this guitar so it will be sounding good??? :)
 

Don

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 1, 2001
Messages
5,732
I have an ES-225 and had the opposite problem- the guitar was kind of dull sounding. The solution was to shim the bridge pickup. I only had to raise it 1/16". Could it be that your pole pieces are too high? Can they be lowered any further?

Have you tried lowering the volume and tone controls on the guitar itself? I seldom turn the volume up to 10 on a Gibson guitar while using an amp set clean. It gets too harsh for my liking. Just turning it down to 9 takes the edge off.
 

mdubya

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
1,020
Possibly the pickups are too close to the strings?

My modern ES 330 VOS has glorious tone.

That said, hollowbody P-90 tone may not be for everyone.

Would love to see pics of your guitar. :dude:

Recent pics of mine.

Ofingte.jpg


xDRZn2j.jpg
 

pjisaacs

Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2017
Messages
39
What volume are you playing at?

I've had two and I think they're glorious things - but I've struggled at home volume because you hear the strings unless you're playing with some reasonable volume from the amp.

Apart from that - I'm stumped I've had a 64 and a 67 which sounded wonderful
 

brandtkronholm

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 3, 2006
Messages
2,737
How do you dial in your amp?

If you don't crank the midrange, then try it. You could also try turning the amp up really loud and using the volume control on the guitar to play at your usual volume.

Humbuckers are warmer than P90s, but the P90 is a fine pickup.

But, how do you dial in your amp?
 

CAGinLA

Active member
Joined
Jan 4, 2016
Messages
489
How do you dial in your amp?

If you don't crank the midrange, then try it. You could also try turning the amp up really loud and using the volume control on the guitar to play at your usual volume.

Humbuckers are warmer than P90s, but the P90 is a fine pickup.

But, how do you dial in your amp?

This is definitely an important question When I play P90 guitars through my amps, I usually turn down the treble and presence a bit and boost the midrange.

Aside from adjusting pole height, you could also simply try a set of boutique P90s that are not quite as hot.
 

marshall1987

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 30, 2005
Messages
3,278
Unfortunately with the design of the ES-330 (hollow-body, laminated construction) you can get wolf tones, dead notes, phase cancellation, and other undesirable sounds. These traits can be magnified if the pickups are too close to the strings.

There is a little "tweak" you can do on these guitars which is borrowed from stringed instruments like violins and violas.

That is, have a knowledgeable guitar repairmen install a spruce "sound post" inside the guitar body directly under the tune-o-matic bridge. The sound post length is sized so that it is a perfect fit between the top and back of the guitar. It is simply wedged in between the top and the back and held in place by friction. It serves to couple the top of the guitar to the back of the guitar, thereby reducing some of the undesirable characteristics of hollow-body guitars.
 

Konrad00711

Member
Joined
May 24, 2016
Messages
35
Wow, thanks guys for all replies :) I must say that hollow/semihollow are "true" guitars for me :) But this lovely ES-330 piss me of a bit :D Strat with '65 grey bottoms is the only solid body I have and enjoy.

Don
Having dog ears installed reduce my abilities to change it's high. The polepieces (screws) are completely screwd :) I put strings action a bit higher than it was originally, as strings nearly touch neck pickup. I was trying to make a compromise here. Strings are now a bit higher than I prefere (and I should say I like them being higher than most players like).

I'm not using any stampboxes. From the very begenning of my electric guitar playing career :) vol/tone controls on a guitar was the only "effects" I was using :) Like I said, having tone knob beyond 6 makes my 330 unplesant sounding. The vol is usually around 8-9, sometimes lower.

mdubya
I have exactly the same beauty :) Mine is 59 RI comming from the very beginning of the production line, with very chunky and wide neck, definitely bigger the "normal" 59 necks. And I have the same cable, but white :D

If I put the strings higher it will be to high for me, I'd like to avoid doing it.

pjisaacs
I don't know how much decibles :) I play at home but not super quiet. I neve hear strings while playing. It's not very loud but not quiet at all. My windows don't rattle, but everyone it the house hear me playing.

brandtkronholm
I really like P90 sound. But this guitar is a bit harder to use for me :) If JC-40 is in use, I usuallny keep the mids at noon. Treb a bit lower, maybe 4-5. Bass too. On guitar the vol is usually around 6-9, treb most of the time on 6. I was trying dozens different setings, but never found the sound I have in my head.
If I use a Tweed, most of the time I'm plugged in to the bright channel, vol 5-7, treb 5-6.

indravayu
But what if useing an amp without mid control?

marshall1987
Never heard about doing it to the guitar. Before I decide to mod it, I would like to try different amp or guitar setings first.
 

RnB

Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2004
Messages
831
I played my ‘63 330 through a Blackface Deluxe Rvb w/ & Jensen P12N spkr & it sounded great. A Klon Centaur pedal helped push it a little further along.

Henry Johnson playing here w/ the same setup:
https://youtu.be/xPe3miX7diw
 

mdubya

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
1,020
I have a Custom Shop Non Reverse Firebird with P-90's in which the P-90 routes are very shallow and put the very strong P-90's right up against the strings. I played with with the pickup volumes rolled way down for awhile. I have since taken it in to have the routes deepened.

You might need to go outside the box and have some deeper doggear baseplates fabricated to lower the pickup height, or fish the baseplates inside the pickup opening and mount them from the underside (would require additional cover ingenuity), or work with a pickup winder to develop a much lower output P-90. Maybe a wood spacer in place of one magnet? Not sure if that would even work?

My VOS model has a spacer under the bridge pickup. If yours has the same, it can be removed or replaced with a shorter spacer.

I needed to raise my neck pickup. I used washers, but a Lollar type spacer would be the proper way.

What the spacers look like

P-90-Pickup-1-8-Neck-Spacer-Black-for-Epiphone-_1.jpg


xxtiwdsjzujbdnmrfonl.jpg


P90-Dogear-Pickup-Spacers-Black-Set-for-Gibson-_1.jpg
 

CAGinLA

Active member
Joined
Jan 4, 2016
Messages
489
indravayu
But what if useing an amp without mid control?

Either get a pedal that offers a mid control or buy a new amp. If I loved the feel of a guitar, I wouldn't hesitate to find the right amp for it.


Can you record any samples for us demonstrating what it is about the tone that you don't like? So hard to tell without hearing it for ourselves.
 

Konrad00711

Member
Joined
May 24, 2016
Messages
35
There were no spacers with my 330. Both pickups were mounted straight into the body.
I was thinking about using TS-9 to boost the mids a bit.
Unfortunately I don't have any recording device, as I've never recorded anything :)
 

Konrad00711

Member
Joined
May 24, 2016
Messages
35
Could someone tell me how high the strings should be over the pickups? Maybe an amp with EL power tubes will smooth out the sound a bit? I've never owned any.
 

MapleFlame

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 3, 2005
Messages
14,044
These guitars love lower wattage tweeds like Harvards, Vibrolux's and Tremolux. Also Black face Princeton's and Deluxe's. Yes the pole position height and pickup height in relationship to strings do make a difference. I will say its important to match 330's to certain amps.
 

miczap

Active member
Joined
Oct 31, 2018
Messages
213
ac30, low impedance, non-TB at around 6 is very nice.

Also, TB-circuit, HI, tones at noon, cool, ~ 5 gives me what I’m after.
 

Tarcisioo

Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2014
Messages
385
I don't have the experience with hollow bodies, but it sounds to me that you have a string height issue
 

musekatcher

New member
Joined
Apr 15, 2018
Messages
135
What year? What's an Amptone Tweed Deluxe? 5e3 clone?

I've played mine with several Fender amps, and its very adaptable to all. P90s are pretty amazing, a great clean and an aggressive saturation too. Pickups are still factory set, just some pole adjustments. My first thought is your amp gain and guitar gain settings need adjustment. Second, are you sure your amps are in good working order? Third, take it to a store, and have someone plug it into a known quantity amp and evaluate - that will eliminate or implicate the guitar.

My gut feel, is there is nothing wrong with the guitar. I'm amazed how versatile my 330 is.
 

Big Al

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
14,537
Plug into the Normal Channel of the Tweed Deluxe. Try the low input. Volume on 5-7 on a Tweed Deluxe???? That will never give you the tone you claim you want, unless you turn the guitars volume almost all the way down. Try Normal Channel, low input, Volume 3-4 and turn the Bright Channel Volume ALL THE WAY UP TO 12. It must be all the way up to effect the tone of the channel you are in. This will tighten and scoop your tone.

Use the guitars tone to adjust the overall tone after dialing in the amps tone control. IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT NUMBERS THE KNOBS ARE AT, ONLY WHAT YOUR EARS HEAR! 6-7, 3-4 they are only numbers to indicate where you are so you know how to repeat.
 
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