Chasing Burst Tone

danieldoranie · Nov 17, 2019

So I would love to hear from those you who have successfully gotten vintage burst tone out of your modern Gibson Les Paul.

I like many of you are tone chasing and I can’t afford a real Les Paul burst.

I am looking for the kind of saturated tone you hear in this video:

I have yet to play or own a modern Les Paul that can get this tone, including R8s and R9s.

I have tried everything I can think of... 50s wiring, swapping out pickups (tried several makers), swapped out pots (VIP pots), tried various string gauges, upgraded to Faber hardware. Still no closer.

My Les Paul is a 2016 Gibson Les Paul Traditional, a Sweetwater exclusive that is non-weight relieved. However, I have owned R8s and R9s too.

So if you have a modern Gibson Les Paul and have been able to get vintage burst tone, how did you do it?

Thanks!

MikeSlub · Nov 17, 2019

A lot of the saturated tone you are hearing is from that Epiphone Valve Jr. amp. Class A, 5 watts, one EL-84 power tube.

danieldoranie · Nov 17, 2019

I own that same head. I am not getting that sound... it’s not an expensive amplifier. By rights I should be able to get that same (or very close to it) tone, but I don’t. It makes me wonder.. “is my pickup height off?” “Am I not dialling the guitar tone and volume correctly?”.

The frustrating thing is my 2009 Gibson Firebird V (with Lollars) sounds JUST LIKE a ‘63 Firebird when I compare it but LP burst tone eludes me.

MikeSlub said:
Some of the saturated tone you are hearing is from that Epiphone amp.

MikeSlub · Nov 17, 2019

Is there a reason why your rhythm pickup is flipped?

danieldoranie · Nov 17, 2019

Magnet is flipped, it would sound the same regardless of how it was fitted, just an homage to Peter Green.

MikeSlub said:
Is there a reason why your rhythm pickup is flipped?

El Gringo · Nov 18, 2019

Wiring harness with 500K pots and bumble bee paper in oil caps and ThroBak MXV-SLE-101 Plus pickups . www.throbak.com check it out ! I have done this to a # of my Les Pal's with tremendous improvement !

johnreardon · Nov 18, 2019

MikeSlub said:
A lot of the saturated tone you are hearing is from that Epiphone Valve Jr. amp. Class A, 5 watts, one EL-84 power tube.

Agree and he's plugged direct in, not going through those pedal things

Garincha · Nov 18, 2019

El Gringo said:
Wiring harness with 500K pots and bumble bee paint in oil caps and ThroBak MXV-SLE-101 Plus pickups . www.throbak.com check it out ! I have done this to a # of my Les Pal's with tremendous improvement !

Yep, exactely. He probably has 300k pots in that fiddle and 500k will improve things a lot.

But the biggest improvement will be the Throbaks. I had the 101 Plus for ten years and loved them (still do). But recently I changed to the KZ-115s, because I was shooting for a very special burst Sound (the Ronnie Montrose/Peter Weihe burst).

So my advice would be to sent the youtube-link with the desired Sound to Jon and have him give a recommendation. That's what I did and he came up with the KZ-115. I wouldn't have thought about those, but with A4 magnets (I chose them after listening to the "chasing Oscar" soundfiles by Dough und Pat) I was able to nail that sound.

zacknorton · Nov 18, 2019

Not that there’s anything wrong with the Epiphone low watt amp.... but c’mon. That’s a little more than an odd coupling.

Isnt they a little like taking hi-def pictures with a pin hole camera.

On the other hand, maybe it’s further proof that the guitar delivers on the myth?

cincyguitar · Nov 18, 2019

My Les Paul thru my new Marshall Origin 20 can get that sound...awesome amp...try it you'll like it...:dude:

mdubya · Nov 19, 2019

Having the talent of Barrie Cadogan helps, too. He has the amp cranked and is just opening the volume pots on the guitar to taste.

FWIW - he favors P-90's and single coils.

Texas Blues · Nov 19, 2019

The answer to the question.

Is right here.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Suud0wxDB3c" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen=""></iframe>

danieldoranie · Nov 19, 2019

Sincerely NOT trying to be a dick but that just sounds like a modern Les Paul. Maybe if I could hear it solo and with a mic on the amp I could tell.

Texas Blues said:
The answer to the question.

Is right here.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Suud0wxDB3c" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen=""></iframe>

danieldoranie · Nov 19, 2019

I have 50s wiring and I am using VIP pots and PIO caps at uF0.022... I am thinking it is my bridge I bought the Fabre conversion kit where you are supposed to tap
the holes but apparently my luthier did not go this extra mile, I will take it a new guy.

I have been considering shelling out for ThroBak PAFs... it has Sanford Magnetics Model 22 PAFs now.

I will probably try to source an old Lafayette capacitor too.

Frustrating!

El Gringo said:
Wiring harness with 500K pots and bumble bee paint in oil caps and ThroBak MXV-SLE-101 Plus pickups . www.throbak.com check it out ! I have done this to a # of my Les Pal's with tremendous improvement !

mdubya · Nov 19, 2019

Texas Blues said:
The answer to the question.

Is right here.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Suud0wxDB3c" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen=""></iframe>

Ah, yes! The coily cable of tone! Toanz! Killer LP tone. Great drummer, too. :yah

Garincha · Nov 19, 2019

danieldoranie said:
I have 50s wiring and I am using VIP pots and PIO caps at uF0.022... I am thinking it is my bridge I bought the Fabre conversion kit where you are supposed to tap
the holes but apparently my luthier did not go this extra mile, I will take it a new guy.

I have been considering shelling out for ThroBak PAFs... it has Sanford Magnetics Model 22 PAFs now.

I will probably try to source an old Lafayette capacitor too.

Frustrating!

If you already have caps with the proper values, there is no point in sourcing old caps. PIO drys out over time and most of the caps from the 50s are basically trash by now. You will of course find a change in sound, because broken means they have drifted in value very far. The change will be obvious, though not for the better I'm afraid. Old caps which are still working, are still in the guitars they came with. Old caps that are sold on Ebay are most likely nothing you would really want.

Regarding the installation of the Faber bridge: What do you mean by "tapping the hole"?

The biggest change in your situation will certainly be the pickups. I never heard of Sanford Magnetics. That doesn't mean anything though, since there are so many aftermarket pickups these days. There ist also many variations among the original PAFs either. They were wound on at least four different machines and Gibson used five different magnets. So that leaves a lot room for quite some different flavours. And anybody has his own idea of a "perfect PAF sound".

So my recommendation would really be: Get in touch with one of the winders, sent them the link to the Youtube video and see what they will recommend. I did that with Jon Gundry and a very special guitar that I wanted to replicate and I couldn't be happier with the result.

But at the end of the day: Maybe it's just the guitar itself. You can't turn a guitar into something completely different. When the guitar just doesn't sound at least a bit in the ballpark, all aftermarket parts won't help.

El Gringo · Nov 19, 2019

Garincha said:
Yep, exactely. He probably has 300k pots in that fiddle and 500k will improve things a lot.

But the biggest improvement will be the Throbaks. I had the 101 Plus for ten years and loved them (still do). But recently I changed to the KZ-115s, because I was shooting for a very special burst Sound (the Ronnie Montrose/Peter Weihe burst).

So my advice would be to sent the youtube-link with the desired Sound to Jon and have him give a recommendation. That's what I did and he came up with the KZ-115. I wouldn't have thought about those, but with A4 magnets (I chose them after listening to the "chasing Oscar" soundfiles by Dough und Pat) I was able to nail that sound.

Jon Gundry is the best and he will be a big help www.throbak.com

Tim · Nov 19, 2019

What pick are you using? A thicker pick will help bring out that fundamental tone, but may sacrifice the clarity in doing so. A Dunlop Jazz 207 or Flow 1.5mm may help.

mdubya · Nov 19, 2019

Tim said:
What pick are you using? A thicker pick will help bring out that fundamental tone, but may sacrifice the clarity in doing so. A Dunlop Jazz 207 or Flow 1.5mm may help.

I've heard it said that a big part of Jimmy Page's tone is a thin, flimsy, nylon pick ~ .50.

Tom Wittrock · Nov 20, 2019

"Chasing Burst Tone"

I think it is a waste of time.
Find your tone, and keep on rockin'! :yah

Chasing Burst Tone

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