57 Junior Refinish

MatthewG · Oct 29, 2019

Hey all,

I picked up this 57 LP Jr here in Austin over the weekend. Really thrilled that everything checks out and aside from a Gotah tailpiece, shes all original. I have my heart set on refinishing in TV yellow. The look I’m going for is more of a lighter tan, tv yellow as shown in the second pic.Inevitably I know that it’s going to be a complete pain to sand back to the wood grain. The cherry stain looks like it’s been there for 30 years or so. I’ve refinished numerous guitars but none in TV yellow. I would love to get any tricks or tips for this finish or just refinishing a Junior in general. I will be using ReRanch nitro for the finish. So far I’m thinking Mary Kaye with tinted amber then clear.

Thanks!
Matt G

Bruce R · Oct 29, 2019

I really like the example of the Junior with the TV yellow you want, but about 10 years ago I got a can of the shade ReRanch sells and it was nowhere close. It was more of a fluorescent yellow/green. I have gotten other shades from them for other projects and they were spot-on, and great folks to work with. Send them the photo and see if things have changed since then. Great project ahead of you!

Tom Wittrock · Oct 29, 2019

MatthewG said:
I would love to get any tricks or tips for this finish ...

Get a cheap [ or even a broken] guitar body to practice on. :ganz

buyusfear · Oct 29, 2019

TV is a tricky finish on its own, more so with closed pores.
In short, what makes a tv finish are 3 things;
Yellowed thinned basecoat
Darker mustardy pore filler on top of that (this being the “limed” mahogany technique)
And lastly an ambered clear coat adding yellow, and depth.

Doing this with rattle cans can be done, but you still need to pore fill and mix that to taste.

I’d suggest sending it to Historic Makeovers and getting back a guitar you love.
You’ll not only get an experienced refin, but the correct unplasticized lacquer.
It’ll feel right.
You’ll get proper silk screen and all that jazz.

MatthewG · Oct 30, 2019

BGReed2 said:
I really like the example of the Junior with the TV yellow you want, but about 10 years ago I got a can of the shade ReRanch sells and it was nowhere close. It was more of a fluorescent yellow/green. I have gotten other shades from them for other projects and they were spot-on, and great folks to work with. Send them the photo and see if things have changed since then. Great project ahead of you!

Great idea. I may just reach out to Bill and see what he recommends. I have no problems refinishing a guitar. A vintage guitar is a different story..

Thanks!

MatthewG · Oct 30, 2019

Tom Wittrock said:
Get a cheap [ or even a broken] guitar body to practice on. :ganz

Definitely! I already have scrap wood in my workshop just for this. Good call.

MatthewG · Oct 30, 2019

buyusfear said:
TV is a tricky finish on its own, more so with closed pores.
In short, what makes a tv finish are 3 things;
Yellowed thinned basecoat
Darker mustardy pore filler on top of that (this being the “limed” mahogany technique)
And lastly an ambered clear coat adding yellow, and depth.

Doing this with rattle cans can be done, but you still need to pore fill and mix that to taste.

I’d suggest sending it to Historic Makeovers and getting back a guitar you love.
You’ll not only get an experienced refin, but the correct unplasticized lacquer.
It’ll feel right.
You’ll get proper silk screen and all that jazz.

Very helpful advice. Thanks! You know.. That's not a terrible idea. I may just reach out to them for pricing. Is there any particular pore fill that you would recommend? I was thinking of the fill Stew Mac has or the one Bill recommends on the reRanch site.

Thanks for your help.
Matt

hogy · Oct 30, 2019

I'm in the same boat with a stripped '55 Special I've had forever.

The guys who can really do it and make it look right quoted me $1500 and up. Problem is, a refinished Junior is still a refinished Junior after a $2000 paint job, so there's no point in doing it.

And the ReRanch rattle can "TV Yellow" looks awful.

marshall1987 · Oct 30, 2019

Sure you want to do a TV yellow refinish yourself? DiY TV yellow paint jobs can be very challenging to get right.

There are guys out there that can do very good work at a fraction of the high-end "makeover" paint shops. Phil Jacoby has an arrangement with Chris Bavaria in Baltimore for professional guitar finishing services. You could contact him at http://www.philtone.com.

The high-end "makeover" paint shops may deliver outstanding refinish jobs, but IMO the cost just isn't justified on an old stripped LP Junior. You would never get your money back if you choose to sell down the road.

Good luck!

buyusfear · Oct 30, 2019

marshall1987 said:
You would never get your money back if you choose to sell down the road.

Good luck!

I have to disagree.

A poorly refined Junior will be worth less than a pro refinished Junior.
Especially if it’s a rattle can finished one.

How much less?

Probably a bigger loss than what it would cost extra to go the proper route.

Two refinished Juniors aren’t worth the same.
Even if it’s only hundreds of dollars.
That pays for going to pro makeover route.

marshall1987 · Oct 30, 2019

buyusfear said:
I have to disagree. A poorly refined Junior will be worth less than a pro refinished Junior.
Especially if it’s a rattle can finished one.

How much less?

Probably a bigger loss than what it would cost extra to go the proper route.

Two refinished Juniors aren’t worth the same.
Even if it’s only hundreds of dollars.
That pays for going to pro makeover route.

Who said anything about a "poorly refined Junior...."? You didn't get that from me. I'm just laying out additional options for professional guitar finish services that won't bust the bank. There are many highly regarded guitar finish shops that have much lower prices than the shop you recommend. Regarding the cost/benefit equation .... it's universally accepted that refinished vintage Gibson Les Pauls are worth less than examples with their original finishes.

If it was my guitar.... I would look at a few more professional refinishing options that are more aligned with the middle of the price range, rather than selecting a popular refinishing shop with prices at the extreme high end.

But hell, if it's your money, I really don't care what you do. :dang

MatthewG · Oct 31, 2019

Thanks guys!

This is all good stuff. Exactly what this forum is for. I ended up calling Kim at Historic Makeovers and unfortunately the guitar can't be refinished (unless in cherry red) due to the fact that it's already been stained.

Apparently no matter how much sanding you do the stain will come up through a TV Yellow finish, I guess the guitar will stay as is.

El Gringo · Oct 31, 2019

Also get a quote from Lays in Ohio , who knows they may come in with a good price and I think with a vintage instrument it would make more sense to have it professionally done . Nothing against your skill level , but a vintage instrument IMHO demands to be done "right"

thin sissy · Oct 31, 2019

MatthewG said:
Thanks guys!

This is all good stuff. Exactly what this forum is for. I ended up calling Kim at Historic Makeovers and unfortunately the guitar can't be refinished (unless in cherry red) due to the fact that it's already been stained.

Apparently no matter how much sanding you do the stain will come up through a TV Yellow finish, I guess the guitar will stay as is.

If this is the case, IMHO you have the perfect oppertunity to do something unique. Maybe an opaque seafoam green, cardinal red or whatever. It's a dream of mine to do something like that some day, but I would never do it on an original finish, and probably not on a restoreable non-original either. But if what they say is true, you have a lot of options

agogetr · Nov 1, 2019

some of the early specials had a factory redish color maybe try for that?

Tom Wittrock · Nov 1, 2019

thin sissy said:
If this is the case, IMHO you have the perfect oppertunity to do something unique. Maybe an opaque seafoam green, cardinal red or whatever. It's a dream of mine to do something like that some day, but I would never do it on an original finish, and probably not on a restoreable non-original either. But if what they say is true, you have a lot of options

Would Silver Fox be possible? That would be a killer "custom" color!

thin sissy · Nov 1, 2019

Tom Wittrock said:
Would Silver Fox be possible? That would be a killer "custom" color!

I had to google that colour, and man, I think that would look so awesome :hippy !

Tom Wittrock · Nov 2, 2019

thin sissy said:
I had to google that colour, and man, I think that would look so awesome :hippy !

I just wonder if that whitish pore filler could be used on this one now. :hmm

MatthewG · Nov 3, 2019

After further research I think I'm going to try the following. (I'll definitely be doing everything on a test block of mahogany first!)

* Sand the current sealer coat (seems to be oil based) and as much of the cherry red dye/stain without affecting the integrity of the body. Apply compressed air to get rid of dust & particles.
* Apply a thin coat or two of white vinyl sealer (colortone from Stew Mac)
* Spray a very thin dry coat of ReRanch Blonde or Mary Kaye (Which will depend on how test sprays turn out)
* Apply grain filler (depending on whether or not the pores are open. If they've been filled at this point, I'll skip this step.)
* Apply another dry color coat to tie things in.
* Apply tinted clear lacquer (Either ReRanch neck amber or sunburst amber)
* Continue to build clear coats using regular clear lacquer from ReRanch.
* Let cure for one month.
* Wet sand / buff - Done..

Do you guys think this will work? I'm not to fussed if the finish is solid without the typical grain fill that you see on a LP JR. Also worth noting is that I'm going more for a tinted wheat color opposed to full yellow or custardy tones.

agogetr · Nov 3, 2019

MatthewG said:
After further research I think I'm going to try the following. (I'll definitely be doing everything on a test block of mahogany first!)

* Sand the current sealer coat (seems to be oil based) and as much of the cherry red dye/stain without affecting the integrity of the body. Apply compressed air to get rid of dust & particles.
* Apply a thin coat or two of white vinyl sealer (colortone from Stew Mac)
* Spray a very thin dry coat of ReRanch Blonde or Mary Kaye (Which will depend on how test sprays turn out)
* Apply grain filler (depending on whether or not the pores are open. If they've been filled at this point, I'll skip this step.)
* Apply another dry color coat to tie things in.
* Apply tinted clear lacquer (Either ReRanch neck amber or sunburst amber)
* Continue to build clear coats using regular clear lacquer from ReRanch.
* Let cure for one month.
* Wet sand / buff - Done..

Do you guys think this will work? I'm not to fussed if the finish is solid without the typical grain fill that you see on a LP JR. Also worth noting is that I'm going more for a tinted wheat color opposed to full yellow or custardy tones.

screw that just scuff it and raddlecan it like erlewhine does. he is the man

57 Junior Refinish

New member

Attachments

Well-known member

Les Paul Forum Co-Owner

Well-known member

New member

New member

New member

Member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

New member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Active member

Les Paul Forum Co-Owner

Well-known member

Les Paul Forum Co-Owner

New member

Active member