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Need help with 1971 gold top

Bluebird89

New member
Joined
Oct 28, 2019
Messages
11
Hi all,

I purchased an original 1971 gold top last weekend online. It looked great and the seller has fantastic reviews and is a guitar collector.

The guitar is a gift for someone who I know that has wanted a gold top for about 20 years. I found out though that it was rebuilt (seller did not mention this in the description). It was rebuilt in 78. New frets, New tuners, new Pick ups (original models), and new wiring. We spent just under $3500 for this guitar and I'm a bit worried. Seller says it plays great and the case, neck, Knobs, and bigsby are all original.

I am not very knowledgeable about these guitars. Should I be concerned? What should I look at when it arrives to check it out?

The seller seems fine but a rebuild always makes me nervous. I'm not sure though if it realistic to get a historic guitar such as this in our price range (we did not want to exceed 4k). I just don't want the playing to sound different than it would with all originals.

Thank you all! And I apologize if I don't post this in the correct area....
 

guitplayer

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 8, 2008
Messages
2,114
I`m not sure "rebuilt" is the right word. Customized...maybe. I`d look out for a refin
 

Bluebird89

New member
Joined
Oct 28, 2019
Messages
11
I`m not sure "rebuilt" is the right word. Customized...maybe. I`d look out for a refin

What is a refin? Sorry, I'm not very well versed in guitars...

The seller told me this morning the original owner was a tech at a guitar shop for 20 years and that the neck is straight. He did offer to take it back if we aren't satisfied with it's playing so that eased some concerns at least.
 

Tim Plains

Active member
Joined
Aug 1, 2013
Messages
795
Used historic gold tops sell for $2,200 and up, so you could have easily afforded one.

Just a suggestion, next time ask questions before you buy.
 

musekatcher

New member
Joined
Apr 15, 2018
Messages
135
Used historic gold tops sell for $2,200 and up, so you could have easily afforded one.

$3500 for a fully functional, correct 71 I think is a good deal. I've seen some hacked up examples selling for $2500 that need work, better original examples for $4500. Is a "historic" a re-issue?
 

Tom Wittrock

Les Paul Forum Co-Owner
Joined
Aug 2, 2001
Messages
42,567
Hi all,

I purchased an original 1971 gold top last weekend online. It looked great and the seller has fantastic reviews and is a guitar collector.

The guitar is a gift for someone who I know that has wanted a gold top for about 20 years. I found out though that it was rebuilt (seller did not mention this in the description). It was rebuilt in 78. New frets, New tuners, new Pick ups (original models), and new wiring. We spent just under $3500 for this guitar and I'm a bit worried. Seller says it plays great and the case, neck, Knobs, and bigsby are all original.

I am not very knowledgeable about these guitars. Should I be concerned? What should I look at when it arrives to check it out?

The seller seems fine but a rebuild always makes me nervous. I'm not sure though if it realistic to get a historic guitar such as this in our price range (we did not want to exceed 4k). I just don't want the playing to sound different than it would with all originals.

Thank you all! And I apologize if I don't post this in the correct area....

Yes, you should be very concerned. :wah

What is a refin? Sorry, I'm not very well versed in guitars...

The seller told me this morning the original owner was a tech at a guitar shop for 20 years and that the neck is straight. He did offer to take it back if we aren't satisfied with it's playing so that eased some concerns at least.

[Unless you get a true expert, who carefully inspects it in his hands] Send it back. :)

If you're ready to throw $3500 at something for a friend that you care about, tell him you'll let him select a guitar he wants and has checked out in his hands.
Guitars can be very personal. He's wanted a Goldtop for 20 years? Let him pick it out.
You'll both be happier in the long run. :salude
 

Froggie

Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2017
Messages
125
What a super generous gift, your friend is very lucky. I’d love a goldtop too 😊

There are so many knowledgeable people on this forum, maybe someone would be willing for you to send them the link to the guitar privately and then give you some feedback.

Unfortunately, I am no guitar expert, my two expensive guitar purchases have been for new guitars from trusted on-line sellers, as there are no authorised dealers in my country.
 

Bluebird89

New member
Joined
Oct 28, 2019
Messages
11
Hi. Thank you all for your responses.

I did speak with the seller again about my concerns. He understood and told me if we get it and are not satisfied he will accept a return and refund us the full cost minus shipping. So that has eased some concerns.

He told us the original owner worked at a guitar shop as a tech and had all of the work done professionally. My father in law is into guitars and recommended a local shop that specializes in vintage guitars. I called and they are willing to look it over when it arrives. Though they said they don't feel that the changes mentioned are too concerning and sound as though they likely improved the guitar. Due to its age they said it's not reasonable to think we'd find a gold top of that era without any changes for under $5k.

Above someone mentioned historic ones can be found for $2500 but in my experience I've only ever seen reissues go that low.

I have attached a picture of the guitar

Screenshot_20191028-071936_Chrome.jpg
 

toxpert

Active member
Joined
Jul 2, 2005
Messages
3,068
The pic the OP posted looks like it is a buggered 1971 ‘54 reissue. These originally had a wrap bridge, P-90 pickups. These can be very heavy guitars and usually have flat dome-like tops with not much of the top carve that Les Paul’s are usually known for.

The Bigsby, bridge, pickups definitely not original Gibson hardware.

Restoration to original specs would be very difficult due top-mods for Bigsby & pickups. Something odd going on with the non-original bridge mounting to the body...makes it look like Chinese knock-off hardware.

If this is a 1971 ‘54 reissue...the modifications have taken away a lot of value as well as desirability. The later ‘53 Reissues came closer to vintage specs than this model.

Someone wanting a contemporaneous Gold Top would choose from ‘53, ‘56, or ‘57 reissue models...depending upon features they desire.
‘53 has wrap bridge & P-90s
‘56 has TOM bridge/tailpiece & P-90s
‘57 has TOM bridge/tailpiece & humbucker

This guitar gift could be a disappointment ...depending upon what version of Gold Top the player has in their heart.
 
Last edited:

El Gringo

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Joined
Apr 8, 2015
Messages
5,657
A photo of the front and back of the headstock would be helpful for identification
 

Triplet

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Mar 13, 2006
Messages
1,675
If your friend has a fair amount of knowledge on Gibson guitars I don't think he would want it. Not at $4k. I know I wouldn't want it. Personally, I could make it respectable, again, with proper parts, but that's me.
Its an ugly Christmas sweater type of gift for sure... :salude
 

Bluebird89

New member
Joined
Oct 28, 2019
Messages
11
The pic the OP posted looks like it is a buggered 1971 ‘54 reissue. These originally had a wrap bridge, P-90 pickups. These can be very heavy guitars and usually have flat dome-like tops with not much of the top carve that Les Paul’s are usually known for.

The Bigsby, bridge, pickups definitely not original Gibson hardware.

Restoration to original specs would be very difficult due top-mods for Bigsby & pickups. Something odd going on with the non-original bridge mounting to the body...makes it look like Chinese knock-off hardware.

If this is a 1971 ‘54 reissue...the modifications have taken away a lot of value as well as desirability. The later ‘53 Reissues came closer to vintage specs than this model.

Someone wanting a contemporaneous Gold Top would choose from ‘53, ‘56, or ‘57 reissue models...depending upon features they desire.
‘53 has wrap bridge & P-90s
‘56 has TOM bridge/tailpiece & P-90s
‘57 has TOM bridge/tailpiece &Screenshot_20191029-153832_Chrome.jpgScreenshot_20191029-153832_Chrome.jpgScreenshot_20191029-153832_Chrome.jpg humbucker

This guitar gift could be a disappointment ...depending upon what version of Gold Top the player has in their heart.

Thank you for the detailed response! I've attached some more pics of it including one with the serial number

Screenshot_20191029-153821_Chrome.jpg

Screenshot_20191029-153840_Chrome.jpg

Screenshot_20191029-153832_Chrome.jpg
 

toxpert

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Joined
Jul 2, 2005
Messages
3,068
Additional note, if this is a 1971 ‘54 reissue...the change from P-90 pickups to humbuckers required routing the top. I would want to see what the pickup cavities/routing look like. They could be cleanly done or hogged out. Are the new routes in the correct position? The neck pickup looks too close to end of the fretboard...the pic does not show the gap that should be there.

The seller should be able to send you better pics that show details. The fuzzy pic is a red flag to me. What else does the seller not disclose? For this example, the seller has a problem on their hands they want to get rid of...older guitar compromised with many changes that are not desirable/not original in nature.
 

toxpert

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Jul 2, 2005
Messages
3,068
Just saw the update post with pics. Neck pickup position is too close to fretboard.
Headstock is the large version with pantograph ‘Gibson’ inlay. 3-piece neck with volute. Body is short-lived pancake construction with maple layer in the middle.

While these features are all period correct...they represent a time when Gibson moved far away from the class Les Paul build specifications.

It does look like a buggered 1971 ‘54 Reissue. With the image of ‘Les Paul Guitar’ in my dreams....this is not the guitar I would buy.

The prototypical Les Paul has 1-piece neck, small headstock with script logo, no volute, no Bigsby. Pickups for this model would be P-90 and bridge would be wrap tail. Body would be solid ...not multi-layered pancake.
 

Bluebird89

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Oct 28, 2019
Messages
11
Just saw the update post with pics. Neck pickup position is too close to fretboard.
Headstock is the large version with pantograph ‘Gibson’ inlay. 3-piece neck with volute. Body is short-lived pancake construction with maple layer in the middle.

While these features are all period correct...they represent a time when Gibson moved far away from the class Les Paul build specifications.

It does look like a buggered 1971 ‘54 Reissue. With the image of ‘Les Paul Guitar’ in my dreams....this is not the guitar I would buy.

Thanks again for the information! Sorry the pictures came through a bit weird...I was working on my phone. Here are the rest of the images I kept from the listing.

s-l1600.jpg s-l1600 (7).jpg s-l1600 (6).jpg s-l1600 (5).jpg s-l1600 (4).jpg
 

toxpert

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Joined
Jul 2, 2005
Messages
3,068
Yes, you should be very concerned. :wah



[Unless you get a true expert, who carefully inspects it in his hands] Send it back. :)

If you're ready to throw $3500 at something for a friend that you care about, tell him you'll let him select a guitar he wants and has checked out in his hands.
Guitars can be very personal. He's wanted a Goldtop for 20 years? Let him pick it out.
You'll both be happier in the long run. :salude

Tom’s advice is the best solution for your endeavor to gift a guitar to your friend.
You may have to incur some costs for shipping...in the end it will all work out for the better.
 
Last edited:

Tom Wittrock

Les Paul Forum Co-Owner
Joined
Aug 2, 2001
Messages
42,567
That is definitely NOT a c.1971 reissue. Pancake body was not used on those.

Very high price for a boogered guitar. I'm even more convinced you should pass on it. :ganz

BTW: If this had been posted in the correct Forum area [Sunburst Pub] you would have gotten more responses from those very familiar with 70s Les Pauls.
 

Bluebird89

New member
Joined
Oct 28, 2019
Messages
11
That is definitely NOT a c.1971 reissue. Pancake body was not used on those.

Very high price for a boogered guitar. I'm even more convinced you should pass on it. :ganz

BTW: If this had been posted in the correct Forum area [Sunburst Pub] you would have gotten more responses from those very familiar with 70s Les Pauls.

Thanks for the reply. What do you mean it is not a c. 1971 reissue?Also, what is a pancake body?

I will repost in the sunburst pub forum. Thank you!
 

toxpert

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Messages
3,068
I defer to Tom regarding the pancake body and the ‘54 reissue and stand corrected.

Best regards to all and may this adventure end well.
 
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