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  1. #41
    Les Paul Forum Member Cliff Gress's Avatar
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    Re: Fender creates solid state BF Deluxe and Twin

    Quote Originally Posted by duaneflowers View Post
    I'm looking to seeing which models come out next... and/or which voicings will be emulated... it's pretty exciting stuff...
    Love to see a Princeton.

  2. #42

    Re: Fender creates solid state BF Deluxe and Twin

    Quote Originally Posted by J T View Post
    Seems that anyone attempting to repair these at that time will be more in the computer/appliance repair camp. Replace the motherboard and call it a day. That is, if the parts are available.
    The front end of the amp is analog solid state and was designed by the department that developed the reissue DR and TR. At least that portion of it is familiar enough to any amp tech.
    As for the four DSP cores and associated circuitry -- that is definitely in the digital realm.
    The power section is Class D which is quasi analog, the power supply for audio output is not rocket science even if it is still unfamiliar to most amp repair places, that will change.
    When solidstate amps first came out, most amp repair shops wouldn't even take them in -- they didn't know where to begin on such a beast; now it is routine.

    I think they will be repairable. Even the Vox Super Beatle that used a really hard to find P-channel FET can still be repaired but you have to dig deep to find that part. And eventually I think that the most common failures in a Class-D amp will boil down to just a few parts to replace which should bring them back to life in most cases.

    Now the DSPs, yeah that's a weak point. Those may or may not be in production for any long period of time. But I bet that some clever OCD types will figure out a workaround...
    As they say in finance "past performance is no guarantee of future results", but there is at least a track record of clever people rising to the occasion so far.

  3. #43

    Re: Fender creates solid state BF Deluxe and Twin

    Quote Originally Posted by zacknorton View Post
    Attenuation in a Ss amp?

    Why?


    There are no power tubes to push to saturation at full volume. And therefore no need to attenuate the volume.

    Just turn down the amp.
    I think this has already been answered but -- it's not really attenuation in the normal sense. I think they just use that word as a shortcut to understanding it. Everything they have done about this amp, right down to the red pilot light, has been to make it seem as much as possible like what you already know. No new words.
    They modeled all the saturation characteristics in DSP so we'll be getting that sound regardless of volume. It uses power scaling to set how much the Class-D power amp can put out in the first place, that's a different method than producing lots of power then cutting it down, which is what a typical power soak does.

  4. #44
    Les Paul Forum Member Big Al's Avatar
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    Re: Fender creates solid state BF Deluxe and Twin

    Quote Originally Posted by sonar View Post
    I hope they do sound good. I really don't have a need for one, so it's hard to get excited about it.

    The price point also seems to be at a premium for the cosmetics.
    How so? It is much more than cosmetics as you suggest. Every single person here who has A/B these is amazed. They are functional virtual blackface amps with useful features at half the weight and cost. The One Control BJF-S66 which is a blackface type 100wt @ 4ohms - 30wt @ 16ohms SS lunchbox head with reverb, and trem, no speakers but a pseudo Fenderish tone for $700 street. So how is this Fender overpriced or premium priced? $500 or more to buy the tube Twin Reverb and the Tone Master is premium priced? I don't think so.
    Last edited by Big Al; 11-30-19 at 03:29 AM.
    The older I get, the better I was.

  5. #45

    Re: Fender creates solid state BF Deluxe and Twin

    If anyone has questions about these amps I'm happy to assist.

    They really are a lot of fun to play. They take pedals well and they sound great.

  6. #46

    Re: Fender creates solid state BF Deluxe and Twin

    The amp sounds great, no doubt about that, especially in the Reverb demo.

    As voiced by others my concern would be repairs. I had a Blues Junior that went wrong just out of warranty and Fender washed their hands of it, not interested at all.

    If it goes wrong out of warranty what chance would a regular repair guy have of fixing these amps.

  7. #47
    Les Paul Forum Member deytookerjaabs's Avatar
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    Re: Fender creates solid state BF Deluxe and Twin

    Repair isn't a matter of if, it's a matter of value. Will it be worth it?



    As for tone, plugging in and thinking "this sounds good" is only part of the equation. The trick to any analog to DSP & vice versa modeling isn't in getting a good base tone, that's been possible for decades. DSP guitar & related suites for your computer can get there just as good as anything on the market but getting the thunk/reaction of a good old fashioned combo speaker box will be different than a set of monitors, at first.

    Now, as for comparing the digital I/O stuff the real test isn't to plug one thing in. The big test is to give it multiple inputs and compare the differences between them and what you're modeling. So, say, take an ES-335 and Les Paul and a 6120. Plug them into a real DRRI, one at a time, and see how different each feel/sound and how different the amp reacts to each guitar. Then, do the same with your modeler. Are all the subtle little differences still there or do they sound more similar on the modeler? Usually that's the weak point with modelling is the math on the input end, something somewhere is almost always lost. But, good news is the possibility of infinite tweaking if you're on the programming end.

    Aesthetically, I'm an all or nothing kinda cat. I have no issues running a laptop at a gig, did it many many times years back. If I'm doing digital I'll go all the way with the most possibilities on my fingertips. Same attitude with synths, there's a million great sounding analog synth modelers on the market so if you're going digital just do it....controller + computer = everything. However, if I want just a minimoog sound and that's it then I'm not bringing the computer or worse a digital vintage looking synth box like these modern Roland things, gross, I'm going to save $$ and buy the damn synth in all it's glory.

    Thus, GTFOuttahere with some silly ass modeler faux tube amp looking box just so it feels cool/vintage to rock one on stage and "sounds killer bro." That's just the apex of lame, I'd rather go direct with the cardboard full stack behind me at that point. At least the full stack looks bigger than life and you can actually laugh yourself.

  8. #48
    Les Paul Forum Member goldtop0's Avatar
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    Re: Fender creates solid state BF Deluxe and Twin

    With the weight of these amps being appreciably less than their tube counterparts..............I'd like to see Fender make a 2x12 Deluxe........

  9. #49
    Les Paul Forum Member
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    Re: Fender creates solid state BF Deluxe and Twin

    Quote Originally Posted by renderit View Post
    My Dad insisted over 40 years ago he could do ANYTHING a tube does with solid state.
    I told him he was nuts as you CAN'T get that warmth and fullness in solid state.
    He stated that you could but at the time you just couldn't afford it.
    We argued about it off and on for decades.
    Now I am beginning to see what he was driving at.
    As he had many patents on tubes I know he was smarter than I was.

    Dad, you won. I wish I could tell you.
    wow! flashback. my dad was an electrical enginer at nasa we used to argueabout tubes he said solid state was 'it' i still think he is wrong.he is in now in his eighties
    Last edited by agogetr; 01-13-20 at 01:30 AM.

  10. #50
    Les Paul Forum Member
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    Re: Fender creates solid state BF Deluxe and Twin

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Al View Post
    How so? It is much more than cosmetics as you suggest. Every single person here who has A/B these is amazed. They are functional virtual blackface amps with useful features at half the weight and cost. The One Control BJF-S66 which is a blackface type 100wt @ 4ohms - 30wt @ 16ohms SS lunchbox head with reverb, and trem, no speakers but a pseudo Fenderish tone for $700 street. So how is this Fender overpriced or premium priced? $500 or more to buy the tube Twin Reverb and the Tone Master is premium priced? I don't think so.
    not only that but if you puta tube pre amp on the front end of this thing it wil sound awesome!
    Last edited by agogetr; 01-13-20 at 01:36 AM.

  11. #51
    Les Paul Forum Member
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    Re: Fender creates solid state BF Deluxe and Twin

    Quote Originally Posted by fakejake View Post
    I'm quite concerned about potential repairs on these amps. My old polytone had issues several times, and repairs were expensive and took ages.
    Wherever I can, I try to buy things that, with proper service, will last a lifetime or longer. These amps don't seem to fall into that category, so I'll stay with the point to point wired tube originals....
    dude the jazz cats used to swear buy the polytone. get it fixed

  12. #52
    Les Paul Forum Member
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    Re: Fender creates solid state BF Deluxe and Twin

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Al View Post
    How so? It is much more than cosmetics as you suggest. Every single person here who has A/B these is amazed. They are functional virtual blackface amps with useful features at half the weight and cost. The One Control BJF-S66 which is a blackface type 100wt @ 4ohms - 30wt @ 16ohms SS lunchbox head with reverb, and trem, no speakers but a pseudo Fenderish tone for $700 street. So how is this Fender overpriced or premium priced? $500 or more to buy the tube Twin Reverb and the Tone Master is premium priced? I don't think so.
    i totally get it. its a solid state version of a tube amp. so when you record into a digital desk your are twice removed from what gets a chick aroused

  13. #53
    Les Paul Forum Member J T's Avatar
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    Re: Fender creates solid state BF Deluxe and Twin

    Blondes have more fun?







    The farther you go, the closer you are.

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