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  1. #1
    Les Paul Forum Member J T's Avatar
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    Fender creates solid state BF Deluxe and Twin

    Tone Master

    The Deluxe



    Attenuation all the way down to .2 watts.
    DI out with cab/mike sim of a 57 and a 121.
    23 lbs.

    The Twin



    Attenuation all the way down to 1 watt,
    DI out with cab/mike sim of a 57 and a 121.
    33lbs


    What do you think?
    The farther you go, the closer you are.

  2. #2
    Les Paul Forum Member deytookerjaabs's Avatar
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    Re: Fender creates solid state BF Deluxe and Twin

    They seem to sound fine, so do the reissue amps. Eh. Will have to try one in person.

    But then I'd wonder why bother trying? Shave a couple pounds, attenuation, a direct out, cool? If I get to a point where a couple pounds is the end all be all, or I have to put up or shut up with my amp choice etc then I'll have bigger fish to fry than worrying about the aesthetic appearance of my backline.

    Carting around my 60's Fender amps isn't a problem and never has been but now marketing is there to convince me otherwise? It's funny how selling convenience no matter the minutiae really resonates with people.

  3. #3
    Les Paul Forum Member toxpert's Avatar
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    Re: Fender creates solid state BF Deluxe and Twin

    40 years later...I still wince at the thought of that skinny little cabinet top handle and carrying my late 60s Fender Twin Reverb with the 2 JBL D120f speakers. Finger tendons screaming out and shoulder at the point of popping out. I remain convinced my lower back pain came from carrying that beast.

    So loud...so clean...so heavy.

    Traded that monster for a motorcycle during grad school.

  4. #4
    All Access/Backstage Pass Wilko's Avatar
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    Re: Fender creates solid state BF Deluxe and Twin

    Quote Originally Posted by deytookerjaabs View Post
    They seem to sound fine, so do the reissue amps. Eh. Will have to try one in person.

    But then I'd wonder why bother trying?
    Trying to create an amp that can be made without hard to source expensive tube (and other ) components that are hard to keep in tolerance, price, and quality. Once the R&D is done, the amp could--in theory--sound as good and be consistently made to sound great at a better relative price point. Maybe side benefits could be line out, attenuation, etc.

    Not about weight.

  5. #5

    Re: Fender creates solid state BF Deluxe and Twin

    Attenuation in a Ss amp?

    Why?


    There are no power tubes to push to saturation at full volume. And therefore no need to attenuate the volume.

    Just turn down the amp.

  6. #6
    Les Paul Forum Member J T's Avatar
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    Re: Fender creates solid state BF Deluxe and Twin

    The other thing I'm curious about is why there is a standby switch.
    The farther you go, the closer you are.

  7. #7
    Les Paul Forum Member deytookerjaabs's Avatar
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    Re: Fender creates solid state BF Deluxe and Twin

    Quote Originally Posted by Wilko View Post
    Trying to create an amp that can be made without hard to source expensive tube (and other ) components that are hard to keep in tolerance, price, and quality. Once the R&D is done, the amp could--in theory--sound as good and be consistently made to sound great at a better relative price point. Maybe side benefits could be line out, attenuation, etc.

    Not about weight.

    I worded that poorly, I didn't mean "why bother trying" per FMIC, I just meant personally I don't have any issues which warrant purchasing one. I can see the appeal to others and question the weight in terms of how much you're saving versus the tube version with Neo speakers. I will say all the "Custom" series of drip edge looking reissues I've plugged into sounded great and were very consistent in doing so but I'm not sure what the difference in street price is.

  8. #8

    Re: Fender creates solid state BF Deluxe and Twin

    The cool thing is that they’re putting some juice into making good sounding ss amps. But hyping an attenuator and having a standby switch etc. is stupid.

  9. #9
    Les Paul Forum Member musekatcher's Avatar
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    Re: Fender creates solid state BF Deluxe and Twin

    Quote Originally Posted by toxpert View Post
    40 years later...I still wince at the thought of that skinny little cabinet top handle and carrying my late 60s Fender Twin Reverb with the 2 JBL D120f speakers. Finger tendons screaming out and shoulder at the point of popping out. I remain convinced my lower back pain came from carrying that beast.

    So loud...so clean...so heavy.

    Traded that monster for a motorcycle during grad school.
    My back DID start warning me from carrying a '70 TR w/D120s, so I started carrying a counterweight in the other hand, and that worked. I spent a fair amount of time with that amp and a LP just today. Great amp.

    I think folks are shell shocked about any kind of SS, modelling, non-tube amp, with so many products in the past 30 years that didn't pan out. But the reports are favorable. If they do in fact possess some tube-ness in tone, volume and impact, they would be a nice amp for those with weight lifting restrictions. But at this point, weight savings isn't that important to me either.

  10. #10
    Les Paul Forum Member sonar's Avatar
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    Re: Fender creates solid state BF Deluxe and Twin

    I hated lugging around my Twin and there was more than a few times (usually when I was loading in or out) where I wanted to punch out the sides and install a pair of Marshall recessed handles.

    A favorite about my Tweed Deluxe Clone is how light that sucker is, even with an alnico speaker.

  11. #11
    Les Paul Forum Member Wallace's Avatar
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    Re: Fender creates solid state BF Deluxe and Twin

    These look like fun
    l like the idea of a silent record facility.
    Wallace.

    "you used Mr Sheen on my what?"

  12. #12
    Les Paul Forum Member The Shifter's Avatar
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    Re: Fender creates solid state BF Deluxe and Twin

    I watched Andy's blind shoot out on Reverb. By and large, I preferred the sound of the DSP modeling amps to the tube Reissues.



  13. #13
    Les Paul Forum Member goldtop0's Avatar
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    Re: Fender creates solid state BF Deluxe and Twin

    Got to admit the DR sounds pretty good with the neo speaker, I'd need to play one to get a good feel for it with the attenuation etc.
    i know I don't need a 100w combo and the price(US$900) will work out to around NZ$2.3k or so when they hit our shores so..................

  14. #14
    Les Paul Forum Member J T's Avatar
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    Re: Fender creates solid state BF Deluxe and Twin

    The farther you go, the closer you are.

  15. #15
    Les Paul Forum Member
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    Re: Fender creates solid state BF Deluxe and Twin

    When clicking on this thread and seeing Tone Master my first thought was "Fender is reissuing the kick-ass 100-watt amp from the early 1990s!" Oh how wrong I was
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  16. #16
    Les Paul Forum Member Cliff Gress's Avatar
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    Re: Fender creates solid state BF Deluxe and Twin

    The A/B video was good, I needed to be told which was which.

    A Princeton in this format would be great.

  17. #17
    Les Paul Forum Member herb's Avatar
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    Re: Fender creates solid state BF Deluxe and Twin

    Fender's attempt to stay with the times. As a business I'm sure they feel they need to do this to remain relevant. As someone that owns 6-8 tube amps I currently have no desire to purchase one of the new Tone Masters (or any other current SS amp) but someone starting out or even a pro that needs the features these amps offer will take a good, hard look at them, I'm sure.

    When tube amps are obsolete or too costly to maintain (whenever that's going to be) we'll all be glad that Fender and other amp companies took the time and resources to start R&D these amps now.

    I'll be turning 65 in a few days and am pretty sure my tube amps are all I'll need for the rest of my life but, as someone that's been playing electric guitars for over 50 years, I'm pretty curious to try one.

  18. #18

    Re: Fender creates solid state BF Deluxe and Twin

    I've had one of the Tone Master Twins for about a month now and it totally fulfills all promises for me. I've owned quite a few mid-60's and earlier Fender amps over the years, my first Fender amp was a Vibrolux Reverb back in '65. So I know the tone. I've always loved Twins but the weight and incredible loudness were obstacles. So this seemed like it held promise when I first read about them. I have a great reference guitar to use with it, my '65 ES-335 and I'm the original owner. So I was skeptical but hopeful the first time I plugged in and turned it on. Well, took no time to dial the amp in as it works exactly like a vintage version but with the ability to get the volume control in the sweet spot and dial down the sound pressure level with the power scaling. Everything works and sounds just like all the vintage versions I've ever used or owned. The reverb is killer and the tremolo is perfect.

    I also can't resist picking the thing up every time I go into the studio and play it for a while. It weighs only about half what real deal BF Twin weighs. For comparison sake I just flipped a recent model Supro 1600 Supreme after I bought this. The Supro is a single 10" speaker, dual 6V6 amp with just two volume controls and a single tone control. Good amp, basic but nice tube tone. The kicker is it weighs 1 pound more than this Tone Master Twin. That's just nuts. The Twin is also fantastic with pedals.

    I love this new Fender, it just makes me want to play. As far as all the prognostication I've seen about long term reliability, and what about obsolescence, I'm not concerned. It gives me a great amp for the studio and a killer rig for gigging. The XLR out works great, the cab sim IR's are perfect to my ear. This amp will scale nicely for small club gigs and the bigger summer festivals I play.

    My advice is check as many videos as you can if you're considering it. I think they do a fairly good job demoing what the amp sounds like except that none catch that juicy 3D feel live in the room. The amp does that for me. I wasn't looking for a new amp but when I saw these things it all made sense for my needs. I'd actually been considering a Deluxe Reverb reissue recently but wanted a bright switch and a middle control so I held off. Glad I did.

    Oh, and before anyone suggests it, I'm not affiliated with Fender and have no agenda. I just joined this forum recently and this is the first topic for which I have something to contribute. On another forum somebody accused me a being a shill. I'm not above that sort of thing, but it takes cold, hard cash to get me to do it and nobody has paid me a dime.

  19. #19
    Les Paul Forum Member fakejake's Avatar
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    Re: Fender creates solid state BF Deluxe and Twin

    Anyone knows whether the headroom on these is more than on the original tube versions?
    Would be great to use the Deluxe Reverb as a clean platform on louder gigs without any unwanted distortion.
    Last edited by fakejake; 10-18-19 at 01:13 AM.

  20. #20

    Re: Fender creates solid state BF Deluxe and Twin

    Quote Originally Posted by fakejake View Post
    Anyone knows if whether the headroom on these is more than on the original tube versions?
    Would be great to use the Deluxe Reverb as a clean platform on louder gigs without any unwanted distortion.
    The headroom is the same. You do have the XLR out but the amp still has the same volume capability as the regular tube version. I went with the Twin to have more headroom before breakup at any given power level.

    One thing asked about was about the "standby" switch. It is actually a mute switch so you can kill the internal speaker while sending a signal out the XLR. The amp still functions but silences the internal speakers.

  21. #21
    Les Paul Forum Member fakejake's Avatar
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    Re: Fender creates solid state BF Deluxe and Twin

    Quote Originally Posted by Gris Gris Man View Post
    The headroom is the same. You do have the XLR out but the amp still has the same volume capability as the regular tube version. I went with the Twin to have more headroom before breakup at any given power level.

    One thing asked about was about the "standby" switch. It is actually a mute switch so you can kill the internal speaker while sending a signal out the XLR. The amp still functions but silences the internal speakers.
    Thanks!

  22. #22
    Les Paul Forum Member renderit's Avatar
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    Re: Fender creates solid state BF Deluxe and Twin

    I'd play it, but I'd feel so dirty!

    Wash your hands after handling one kids!


  23. #23
    Les Paul Forum Member J T's Avatar
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    Re: Fender creates solid state BF Deluxe and Twin

    Thanks GGMan. This amp sounds like its definitely worth it. Real world experience
    The farther you go, the closer you are.

  24. #24
    Les Paul Forum Member J T's Avatar
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    Re: Fender creates solid state BF Deluxe and Twin

    Quote Originally Posted by renderit View Post
    I'd play it, but I'd feel so dirty!

    Wash your hands after handling one kids!
    Just close the door and don't tell anyone
    The farther you go, the closer you are.

  25. #25

    Re: Fender creates solid state BF Deluxe and Twin

    As far as the attenuator, it is actually a power scaler. You can set levels in increments down to 1 watt. This is a great feature as you can tailor the amp response to the room very easily. It works much better than any master volume I've ever used be it tube or solid state. I think the power amp in the Twin is exactly the same as the Deluxe. Since it is a class D amp it simply puts out more power with the lower 4 ohm speaker load. Overall the amp seems extremely well built, controls are solid and smooth, switches have the right feel. Again, not that it matters but in trying to recreate the vibe of a md-60's tube Twin it all helps as far as I'm concerned. I've gone the modeling route with a lot of previous products and while some get really close the overall complexity and editing routines I find distracting and in the way. I've no need for multiple complex or high gain amp sims of any sort.

    I do confess that for effects into the front of the amp I use a Line 6 HX FX as their stomp box sims are excellent and it works really well in to the front of a tube amp, exceptionally well with the Tone Master Twin.
    Last edited by Gris Gris Man; 10-22-19 at 02:47 PM.

  26. #26

    Re: Fender creates solid state BF Deluxe and Twin

    I knew I'd be a harsh critic when I had the chance to check these out. I've been a BF/SF guy for 40 years & have used the same '65 BFDR for nearly 20.
    I sat down at a local GC last week & gave both of them a good run-through. I'm blown away! The DR immediately sounded completely familiar except I could crank it without having the sound guy or my audiologist yelling at me! Also, they aren't homogenized versions - the Twin sounded like a Twin & the Deluxe sounded like a Deluxe, not just a homogenized BF-ish tonestack for both. A Twin I can pick up with two fingers & a thumb & easily crank in a small club! You've never lived until you've carried a Twin full of JBLs up the outside fire escape at the Fillmore West because the elevator is out of order! I'd feel much more comfortable with getting good tone from a rented backline of these than any of the rented DeVilles or Vintage Reissue tube driven stuff I've ever been supplied with!
    I just hope Fender continues on this path - How about some Tweed & maybe a BF Super? Head-only versions would be cool also, but I had no issues with the tone of the Neos as a all-around speaker.
    I LOVE tubes, but we live in amazing times!

  27. #27

    Re: Fender creates solid state BF Deluxe and Twin

    Just finished a band rehearsal with the Tone Master Twin and holy crap did it sound fantastic! Everything I want in an amp to perfection. It just sat in the mix so well. And the reverb and tremolo sounded incredible. When I played it by myself in the studio over the past few weeks I thought maybe the reverb was a bit more intense at any given setting than a real spring reverb in a tube Twin. But with the band it sounded perfect at any level. Likewise the tremolo was spot on and creamy.

    I've also been using a Line 6 HX FX straight into it as I did with my Victoria Ivy League for the past year. It works extremely well. But interestingly I relied mostly on the amp's reverb and tremolo and preferred those sounds for most of my effects needs. I think if I added a good dirt pedal directly in I could be very happy with just that. This amp is one of the best gear purchases I've ever made.

    Also, for a hoot when we finished I had the bass player plug in his Tobias bass with active pickups just to see how it sounded. It was likewise wonderful sounding. We could actually easily do a gig with just the Tone Master Twin in a small venue.

  28. #28
    Les Paul Forum Member TM1's Avatar
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    Re: Fender creates solid state BF Deluxe and Twin

    I'd like to hear it side by side with a real Sixties BF Twin or Deluxe. I know some of the earlier digital stuff could not compare. They'd sound great in a studio, but just couldn't cut it level-wise with the real deal. The digital stuff gets lost trying to keep up with the volume of a valve/tube amp..

  29. #29

    Re: Fender creates solid state BF Deluxe and Twin

    I consider myself a tone junkie. For years I swore up and down that solid state amps were no different than tube and “they all sound the same now cuz technology has improved”. I’ve owned all the newer solid state modeling amps and thought I knew what I was talking about.

    then I purchased a small tube amp....

    Now I’ll never use another non tube/SS amp again.

    the sound is so radically different in structure and over all makeup of harmonic content.

  30. #30

    Re: Fender creates solid state BF Deluxe and Twin

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBiggestJerK View Post

    I consider myself a tone junkie. For years I swore up and down that solid state amps were no different than tube and “they all sound the same now cuz technology has improved”. I’ve owned all the newer solid state modeling amps and thought I knew what I was talking about.

    then I purchased a small tube amp....

    Now I’ll never use another non tube/SS amp again.

    the sound is so radically different in structure and over all makeup of harmonic content.
    My experience and A/B comparison tells me that the Tone Master Twin I own is every bit as good sounding as my boutique Victoria Ivy League tube amp. This is a statement that shocks me to read as I type it because I said I was done with amps with the Victoria. Don't get me wrong, it is an excellent totally vintage sounding hand wired tube amp with impeccable build quality. I have it loaded with NOS tubes and perfectly biased. But I can dial in the Tone Master Twin to equal and in some situations surpass what the Victoria does. And I've been using the Victoria for 9 years now. It seems absurd, yet the reality is undeniable.

  31. #31

    Re: Fender creates solid state BF Deluxe and Twin

    Fender's current reissue blackface amps sound really good, I have a DRRI, no complaints there, but they are very cheaply made in areas that are problematic. They fail in ways that are preventable and inside, where it doesn't show, corners are cut. They aren't as reliable as the eyelet board handwired versions. They don't last. Mine didn't. It was in and out of the shop over and over for a year until Fender finally conceded that it was a lemon and replaced the entire chassis.
    Nobody seems to have a bad word to say about the new Tone Masters but what I want to know is what their durability and reliability is going to be like?
    The chassis are made in China, but also they are completely solidstate and mostly digital on top of that, so that might actually be in their favor. Very low voltages, low heat, low weight... China definitely knows how to make electronic things so this is right up their alley. It may all add up to them being extremely reliable. But we will never know until somebody bangs around town with one for a year or two or hits the road with them.
    I'll be watching with interest to see what the reports from the rough and tumble club and road world have to say after some time passes.

  32. #32
    Les Paul Forum Member The Shifter's Avatar
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    Re: Fender creates solid state BF Deluxe and Twin

    Quote Originally Posted by NotJeffBeck View Post
    Nobody seems to have a bad word to say about the new Tone Masters but what I want to know is what their durability and reliability is going to be like?

    I'll be watching with interest to see what the reports from the rough and tumble club and road world have to say after some time passes.
    Yeah, and to that end, I wonder if they will even be able to be repaired 10-15 years from now.

  33. #33

    Re: Fender creates solid state BF Deluxe and Twin

    If you're on the fence about these, definitely get down to a store that has one and try it out yourself. Youtube videos don't tell the entire story.

    Here's a quick clip I captured with my iPhone the other day that shows how the Tone Master Deluxe Reverb handles pedals.

    I'm using a Digitech Freqout, Line 6 HX Effects and the TM Deluxe Reverb.
    Guitar is a 90's Epiphone Riviera with '57 Classics.


    https://soundcloud.com/stilwel/my-idea-2

  34. #34
    Les Paul Forum Member J T's Avatar
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    Re: Fender creates solid state BF Deluxe and Twin

    Quote Originally Posted by The Shifter View Post
    Yeah, and to that end, I wonder if they will even be able to be repaired 10-15 years from now.
    Seems that anyone attempting to repair these at that time will be more in the computer/appliance repair camp. Replace the motherboard and call it a day. That is, if the parts are available.
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  35. #35
    Les Paul Forum Member J T's Avatar
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    Re: Fender creates solid state BF Deluxe and Twin

    Quote Originally Posted by stilwel View Post
    If you're on the fence about these, definitely get down to a store that has one and try it out yourself. Youtube videos don't tell the entire story.

    Here's a quick clip I captured with my iPhone the other day that shows how the Tone Master Deluxe Reverb handles pedals.

    I'm using a Digitech Freqout, Line 6 HX Effects and the TM Deluxe Reverb.
    Guitar is a 90's Epiphone Riviera with '57 Classics.


    https://soundcloud.com/stilwel/my-idea-2
    Really interesting. These amps seem worth the price.
    The farther you go, the closer you are.

  36. #36
    Les Paul Forum Member Big Al's Avatar
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    Re: Fender creates solid state BF Deluxe and Twin

    Quote Originally Posted by zacknorton View Post
    Attenuation in a Ss amp?

    Why?


    There are no power tubes to push to saturation at full volume. And therefore no need to attenuate the volume.

    Just turn down the amp.
    Do you understand how amps work?
    These are exact digital models of the entire circuit. Turn up and it models and reacts exactly like the tube circuit. Turn it down, same thing. IT IS PUSHING DIGITAL VIRTUAL TUBES AND MODELING THAT TONE.

    A Twin on 8 sounds great, but can be stupid loud. Volume on 2 may work but on 2 it won't sound the same as 8. Sooooooo....

    get it.


    I am amazed. I have been a Fender amp user for over 50 years. I own over a dozen vintage Fenders and these amps nail every aspect of vintage AB763 blackface tone!

    I think you need to rethink your stance. It isn't a SS amp, but an extremely accurate digital modeling clone of the circuit components and the complex interplay between them depending upon the way the controls are set, just like the tube amp it models.
    It behaves the same!

    So the attenuator does what you suggest. Allows you to turn up the amp to a desired overdrive point and then reduce the overall volume while retaining the tone/responce of the digitally modeled amp as it is dialed in. Like the tube amp it models, it cleans up if you turn it down. Amp 101
    The older I get, the better I was.

  37. #37
    Les Paul Forum Member duaneflowers's Avatar
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    Re: Fender creates solid state BF Deluxe and Twin

    I'm looking to seeing which models come out next... and/or which voicings will be emulated... it's pretty exciting stuff...
    Tone To The Bone!
    LP=[(CC*8)+(Sig*5)+(R9*2)+R8+R7+R6+(R4*2)+(50sT*2)+Stu D+LPX]+[(EpI*19)+(EsP/Ed*6)+(ToKi*3)+(Ba*3)+(Fe/Bu*2)+(ObG)+(CMS)]

  38. #38
    Les Paul Forum Member renderit's Avatar
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    Re: Fender creates solid state BF Deluxe and Twin

    My Dad insisted over 40 years ago he could do ANYTHING a tube does with solid state.
    I told him he was nuts as you CAN'T get that warmth and fullness in solid state.
    He stated that you could but at the time you just couldn't afford it.
    We argued about it off and on for decades.
    Now I am beginning to see what he was driving at.
    As he had many patents on tubes I know he was smarter than I was.

    Dad, you won. I wish I could tell you.


  39. #39
    Les Paul Forum Member sonar's Avatar
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    Re: Fender creates solid state BF Deluxe and Twin

    I hope they do sound good. I really don't have a need for one, so it's hard to get excited about it.

    The price point also seems to be at a premium for the cosmetics.

  40. #40
    Les Paul Forum Member fakejake's Avatar
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    Re: Fender creates solid state BF Deluxe and Twin

    I'm quite concerned about potential repairs on these amps. My old polytone had issues several times, and repairs were expensive and took ages.
    Wherever I can, I try to buy things that, with proper service, will last a lifetime or longer. These amps don't seem to fall into that category, so I'll stay with the point to point wired tube originals....

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