R4 Lefty

Hey, asking for thoughts.

I've always wanted a goldtop p90 lefty and found one at a good price, prob due to some complications.
One, no case candy proving authenticity, no cover on the back (easily fixed)

Thing is, the nashville store took it in from a friend and won't let me get in contact with them and wrongly listed it as a 2009 when Gibson said it's a 1999 due to the orange drop caps.
Gibson didn't indicate they thought anything amiss with the guitar being a gibson.

Anywho, just asking what you guys would think if they got the year wrong after you bought it and it's still shipping.
This is the auction online (I bought direct from the store): https://reverb.com/item/19357204-us...top-1954-reissue-r4-lefty-very-good-condition
Owner is nice.

I got 4.4% off that price. It's my first historic, I have a 2012 Standard and owned a 2012 Burgundy model before and loved them both.

I'm asking for thoughts b/c it's a bit unsetting they got the year wrong, but I see from the SN this isn't a hard thing to do.
My search on Old Web sites only shows black R4s for 2009 and only the R6 was goldtop then.

Gibson sent me specs, but I was wondering what ppl think of the 1999 model, since I've only really researched the 2009 models.

It seems there's constant changes thru the years to the Historics, so there's always going to be things different.

Lefty stuff is not nearly as available, and that the guitar looks pretty clean, and (IMHO) a good price.

If you like it, I can't see any downside.

Agree with Jim and would add some thoughts:

- As you are probably aware, there's been a progressive march toward accuracy in vintage specifications from the early years of the Custom Shop Historic / Reissue guitars, perhaps culminating in the True Historic run, which spec-wise lives on. You can argue on small specifics like double-carve of the CCs and such, or whether Gibson can inch closer, but we have a pretty good representation today apart from aged wood sourcing, and plastic / finish composition which is hard to replicate given today's materials and safety standards.

- That said, you only need to search around at the 1999/2000 output from the CS to see praise for guitars from this era. They were producing some beauties, as well as good variation of models, tops, etc. Murphy was doing his thing in full force, the CS was really firing then. Maybe not super-constrained to "As-Vintage" standards given some of the spectacular tops, but of very high quality. I'd observe you don't see folks rolling over on this era to trade-up just because of the year or specification. So, while not as accurate to vintage, this doesn't mean they aren't "Of-Quality."

- What you bought appears to be very well kept, and of course you'll have to examine it. Nice condition, nice tone of gold, nice fretboard coloring....

- I've seen black cases from this era, not sure if that matters too much which case you got, since you're OK with the lack of case candy, COA. Nothing wrong with this case IMHO.

- You also got a decent price IMHO.

- Finally, R4s aren't plentiful. Lefty R4s rarer still. I can't rule out 2009 R4s existing, but I'll state by my personal recollection lefties outside of the R8/9/0 spec weren't as plentiful then... as say 2000-2005.

I actually had this one on my watchlist, and didn't bother to write the seller WRT 1999 vs. 2009 because I was busy, and wasn't that interested. [I've got my P-90, no-ABR bases covered, including R4 - mine's not a gold top but a Stinger burst] Yes, differentiation takes effort given the serial number repeats. The price of vintage accuracy, he-he...

My advice is if this is what you are looking for spec-wise -- P-90, no-ABR, R4 neck profile, gold top historic in Lefty -- AND you think it's in good condition, playable, you can bond, etc. THEN I would be really happy with it, regardless of year.

Welcome to the world of Custom Historic / Reissues!
Congrats, enjoy in good health :salude

My first historic was a ordered R 7 great guitar , my 98 R8 fantastic my 98 Firebird V killer . My 2014 R4 Daves Guitar hand picked is fantastic .

Your 1999 R4 looks very nice & I would venture out by saying this guitar should really top be notch the late 90's guitars are keepers congratulations on your score .......!!!!!

Many thanks, and jb_abides for the enumerated points. I am enjoying these comments!

My main interest in a 2009 as advertised, aside of it being any lefty available, was I know they were PLEK'd guitars post 2006 so that it would have been pretty much zero issue with buzz.
But from reading the forum on this issue, I've not seen ppl having this issue with these historic guitars pre-PLEK, so maybe that's more a good thing for the other non-historic lines made with less Custom Shop care?
(like the two 2012s I owned had/have perfect action)

I admit I didn't lurk and choose based on the type of bridge, etc. More the type of the pickups and style of guitar whose wood imparts that tone, and matching it's historical tonality.
IF I had gone down the rabbit hole on the many different differences, no doubt I'd become very frustrated and eventually buy the most 'historic' model I could get my hands on but couldn't afford and regretted.
But I'm intrested in playing this for my studio only, not live, and it's one of 10 guitars, so it won't get played exclusively, hence IDC so much about "shape" for collecting. I won’t fear bumping it further
when I'm in a recording mode if its already got a few nicks.

I'd love to nail down the specs on this year better. Gibson indicated it's the same as the 2009 except for the caps. But here I'm reading the bridge is different, so that's not true what the Gibson person emailed me entirely.

I'm curious about the wood, as to why some LPs have maple tops and other are solid mahogany throughout. Is that just b/c the maple looks better when they show wood grain,
and all mahogony grain is hidden beneath a Goldtop?

If anyone has the specs of a 2009, or knows a source to read about it (book) I'd be interested.

And more insights, comments, will be read with deep continued interest!

Well done! A 54 is really hard to find in Lefty, and it looks lovely.

Something to keep you company while you wait for yours to arrive... ok, well imagine a gold top with P-90s :hee :salude

Oh, that IS purty!
My fear of owning such a beautiful creature is possibly nicking it.
I have nice looking guitars, and I take care of some very much, and others are my slinging IDC what happens guitars.
But that one would cause TOO much anxiety for me, haha

I picked up my R4 from UPS today. The guy didn't really describe it well, but I knew looking at it, it was a players guitar (so no real surpises, normal bumps/nicks) which is fine by me, it has gotten some love. Pristine 20yo guitars probably are unplayed for a good (bad) reason. Playing it at work (don't ask) it resonated well and while the intonation wasn't perfect it wasn't what I consider a problem. I've read there is a compensated wrap-around bridge if that bothers me down the road. I'm good for now. Probably even like any slight pitch imperfections as it's authentic. The G string (that sounds dirty) liked to come out of tune easily but mabye its the previous stringer not making it a tight enough wind? The Low-E did buzz along almost it's entire length but only that string so either it's my heavy hand, the bridge needing a slight raising, or a bad string (corrosion or messed up core) New strings will tell the tale possibly. I have to measure these b/c I like the gauge.

I have a rinky dink amp at work, an AAA battery opererated Cube so it's good for practice and telling me that the electronics are good (ie no scratchiness)
I don't think the orange drops in the compartment are original. There are some round orange caps inside the case, but there is an amp switch in there too so no telling what that all is about. And a bunch fo washers (duncan, et al)

I got home and put it through my Kemper using a 59 Bassman, a Vox AC15 HW and some various Fenders. It really likes the clean amps -> slight crunch rather than the dirty profiles that my 2012 LP Standard eats up.

Overall, my impression is:
-I didn't notice any Low-E buzz through the amp at all. Either my playing adjusted or it's just not audible enough to bother.
-Didn't notice any bothersome hum I've read about on the forums.
-The paint looks good and isn't messed up on the top.
-The jack plate is cracked in 2 places. Unimportant but I might replace it for giggles at some point.
-The back big cover is missing, knew that from the sale, and have ordered a modern brown replacement. If it's make sucks I'll find a used authentic one somewhere/sometime. The switch cover is brown (they look black in pictures so I didn't know until the right lighting)
-The neck isn't anywhere near as thick as I've heard ppl tell. Maybe 1999 wasn't a thick one, or maybe this lefty was a called-in custom shop order and the neck size was specified thinner so it's quite comfortable and doesn't feel as fat as a 50s replica Tele I once played. (the ones you can easily fret-out) I like it quite alot for my hands.
-The bending is insanely good. I am able to articulate in a way I've never before on my guitars due to increased control. My Ernie Ball Axis Sport can bend, but it's a little too springy. My LP, Thorn SoCal Strat, Duesenberg, etc can bend nicely but feel tight after a semi->whole note and hence can be tiring to nail the whole tone vibrato bend with ease after much playing. This guitar feels like I have miles of room to nail a bend's pitch, goes far easily but feels natural and not too loose like the Music Man (which I typically keep slinky's on, so there is that) The ability to express feels entirely new and better on this guitar.
-The articulation of these p90s when not on the Neck pickup entirely is fantastic. I like all three pickup settings without any tone bleed which is highly unusual for me. The chords are powerful but allow single notes to be clearly heard (reminds me of a PRS I once had, but less pure sounding in that regard, but unlike the sterile PRS, this thing has loads of character) It sounds versatile (not as versatile as a PRS, but as ppl have said, sort of Tele->Gibson but shy of the ballz-to-the-wallz humbucker) It's definitely nothing like my 2012 Standard and nothing like the my other 2 P90 guitars (StarPlayer's P90 or Axis Sport P90) Enough so that its entirely unique, but easily denotes those classic tones of 50s-60s blues and rockabilly era. It's got it's own niche for sure.

Day One: Impressed, feels natural, adds a new flavor to the tone team of guitars, she's a keeper!

My wife came in while playing and while talking about a pressing issue concerning our daughter took a few glances at my guitar as if she noticed something quite different about THIS one (I've never owned a GOLD guitar, so, Hmmmmm) but being a very good woman she didn’t' ask, and I didn't tell! I kept my cool and I think I didn't sweat.

We ALL need our toys and THIS one, she probably knows, will keep her man IN the house and not prowling around, haha.

Thank you for the comments, and picture. I could read about the nuances of these guitars all day long, so if you have more, I'm all eyes on your text! And i've copies some text above to keep with a notes I have on this guitar!

Well done getting that.

Now what you have to do is to collect the set, 52-59 in reissue (or original if funds allow!)

Enjoy

I have to upgrade the house just to hold more on the walls!

Tim1300r said:

Well done getting that.

Now what you have to do is to collect the set, 52-59 in reissue (or original if funds allow!)

Enjoy

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You can't easily say that for us lefties...

Originals: Next to impossible for us lefties, even with unlimited funding.

Reissues: Difficult, rare but achievable -- if you really even want to bother. Some very hard to find.

I have most of them:
- I don't have a R2/52 trapeze, not sure I want one...(?)
- Have a R4 with humbsckers, non-ABR, see above.
- Been lusting for a R4 Custom Alnico staple, very hard to find. Didn't want to risk Japan.
- R6, NO, but I've got those bases covered with Reissue Juniors/Specials, and P-90 ABR on a 2018 Classic. I've enough R7s, apart from dark-back, all-gold
- The non-standard years appellation like 53, 55 were dealer runs, never a lefty. Maybe a M2M?
- R7 Custom, check. 3 PUP. No Bigsy or 2 PUP. Would rather go for a R4 Custom Alnico next.
- Standard years:
-- R7s, check per immediately above.
-- R8, check.
-- R9/R0: I've amassed R9, R0 from various eras, including Brazilians. I guess that's where I've been most profligate in my acquisitions. Sunburst and those years are really where the bug bit like everyone else, so always a sucker for vintage, flame-y, cool burst colors, ad nauseam.

I'd rather find oddballs like chambered (lefty Cloud 9 super rare, if they even exist! ), dark backs and all-golds, or those TV White Juniors/Specials (although I've preferred and acquired TV Yellow and Cherry there...), etc. than become a "year completist" !!!

:jim:salude:jim:salude:jim:salude

Yes, Lefty anything is a struggle to find, often buying before playing. That said, rare it's a problem when you get up to a certain price level, Fender excepted (I've owned a MIM and American that was more consistent than a Custom Shop strat, but the CS was definitely a better workmanship. Just was a different guitar every few days.)

That said, when you DO find a lefty that you like, you feel it's special for it's rarity. One thing I hate are companies that bitch and upcharge hundreds to "retool". F-them. I'll buy used all day long on you or shop elsewhere, which I do. I've converted righty's with few issues unless they don't let you get high up on the fretboard (plus the trouble shoulder-strapping them w/o ruining the coat on the other arm) but I'm at a point where I have a stable of lefties and can wait & lurk for a proper lefty. Or "screwed-up guitar" as a co-worker used to tell me, lol.

So the P90s hum depending on the electric source. I guess my house is OK for that then. Or the Kemper Profiler shields the guitar?
Mine feels heavy in the case, 9lbs 2oz but not so much standing. My American Strat weighted more than that. I think my '12 Standard has them weight relieved holes to keep it down.

DRB9091 said:

So the P90s hum depending on the electric source. I guess my house is OK for that then. Or the Kemper Profiler shields the guitar?

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The cause, or more appropriately source of 60 cycle hum is environmental electronic emissions into the pickups, as far as the signal chain goes. How your amplifier responds and deals with that noise signal is downstream, and varies. The Kemper may well have a filter before or within the pre-amp circuitry that helps reduce noise so that more desirable signal is presented to the amplifier [ I don't have one...yet, and haven't research them closely enough to know]. Others amps do provide such filtering; this varies, especially from vintage to modern circuit design, per design spec.

If you were to disallow for filtering in the amp (or an off-board filter aka noise reduction device upstream of the amp), then you have to resort to noise reduction via:
- removing or shielding the cause, isolating the environment.
- shielding the pickup via foil, paint, etc. -- or resorting to a "noiseless" or hum-cancelling trick within the pickup e.g. stacked or some other variation on 'bucking'; this may change the native tone somewhat, but there are those adept at delivering a P-90 tone while doing so e.g. Seymour Duncan.

:salude

I checked out the Orange Drops, they have a date of 9802 so that nails the 1999 as authentic (just in case someone dropped modern orange drops in there)
I wonder if Grey Tiger caps would make any real difference?

Quick Q: What is the size of the truss rod wrench for the R4? Is it a Hex?
I may have one that fits, but if not, will need to order. This came with no tools (I like the wrap-around more now: no tool needed!)

There's plenty of Lefty's if you keep your eyes open!

The ES345 is from 1965, it's really a '64 with a Trapeze
ES330 is from 2018

And a double neck that I discovered in South Paw guitars in Houston TX. I didn't buy it

jb_abides said:

You can't easily say that for us lefties...

than become a "year completist" !!!
[/I]
[/B]:jim:salude:jim:salude:jim:salude

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Hey! Sometimes you just need the whole set! :dude:

<a href="https://imgur.com/ToOOMbc"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/ToOOMbc.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>

My dream realized, with this original 1964 ES-345

Jim W said:

Hey! Sometimes you just need the whole set! :dude:

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That is Magnificent!

I have an original ES345 from 1965. It's really a '64 with a trapeze on it. I kept the Stereo Variatone on it too.